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  1. #1

    Question Why are so many players foul?

    We all know that the higher up you go in what's called 'hardcore' gaming(raiding/pvp) the worse attitudes people get because they have it in their minds that whatever they're doing is important. Coupled with that they act worse because they think they're anonymous or that their actions do not affect a person's life in even a minuscule way.

    I have several questions to ask. Why do the greater majority of people tolerate that behavior from a single individual regardless of their skill-level at the game? Why in the majority of communities not have at least one mature individual who rallies others to get the perpetrator(s) of hatred for whatever reason to change their attitude?

    What usually happens is either subtle or outright toxicity back-in-forth without any real mediation. This isn't the case at the highest level because it appears that those people understand a bit of business and psychology.
    Last edited by CcB; 2020-03-17 at 05:50 AM.

  2. #2
    It's usually because people are just tired of others' shit and they've never learned how to deal with people.

    Tired of people that come in and make the same observation like it's original.

    Tired of people that are all asking the same question or making the same mistakes.

    Tired of people that make irrelevant comments that say nothing worthwhile, like people that tell someone to play a different game in a post about combat rogues, for example.

    Irritating shit like builds up after a while and people get tired of looking at it and lash out.

    Although, some people are just assholes. Most people don't care about others being assholes if it's not to them. That's all there really is to it.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    Although, some people are just assholes.
    A lesson in life that a lot of people should learn sooner than later. :^)

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by CcB View Post
    We all know that the higher up you go in what's called 'hardcore' gaming(raiding/pvp) the worse attitudes people get because they have it in their minds that whatever they're doing is important. Coupled with that they act worse because they think they're anonymous or that their actions do not affect a person's life in even a minuscule way.

    I have several questions to ask. Why do the greater majority of people tolerate that behavior from a single individual regardless of their skill-level at the game? Why in the majority of communities not have at least one mature individual who rallies others to get the perpetrator(s) of hatred for whatever reason to change their attitude?

    What usually happens is either subtle or outright toxicity back-in-forth without any real mediation. This isn't the case at the highest level because it appears that those people understand a bit of business and psychology.
    Are you talking about random groups like pugs? Because people will generally tolerate an asshole because it's a hassle to initiate a convo to tell him to pipe down, and then eventually having to look for a replacement, especially if the asshole is a tank or a healer. Also in m+ you're stuck with him anyway.

    Are you talking about guilds? In guilds it doesn't happen. If someone is an asshole, he will be promptly told to can it or gtfo.

  5. #5
    I am Murloc! dacoolist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CcB View Post
    We all know that the higher up you go in what's called 'hardcore' gaming(raiding/pvp) the worse attitudes people get because they have it in their minds that whatever they're doing is important. Coupled with that they act worse because they think they're anonymous or that their actions do not affect a person's life in even a minuscule way.

    I have several questions to ask. Why do the greater majority of people tolerate that behavior from a single individual regardless of their skill-level at the game? Why in the majority of communities not have at least one mature individual who rallies others to get the perpetrator(s) of hatred for whatever reason to change their attitude?

    What usually happens is either subtle or outright toxicity back-in-forth without any real mediation. This isn't the case at the highest level because it appears that those people understand a bit of business and psychology.
    First off, if you’re talking about the WoW community, lets check out the latest and greatest top end Raiders, PVPers, and M+’ers at the tip top of the world: Method and Limit, they literally made jokes throughout progress and had a blast throughout the entire rough race to world first the took the world third guild pieces three whole days to catch up and not to mention these three guilds are better at this game than almost any sports team could ever fathom being at their sport on steroids+1000 years from now: all had a blast no shitters like what you’re saying OP.

    Next PVPers: watching blizzcon and tons of invitationals - people at the top having a blast on how dumb shit is with corruptions etc... still making tons of jokes having fun.. same goes for M+’s but a lot of time they are so worried about time their chats are about communication for those extremely quick dungeon pulls..

    All I’m saying is, you’re looking at the game or games from a scrubknight perspective, when you meet real players people that love the game and are top level: they have fun doing it - the people that complain all day are a bunch of shitters that should of quit to go play some shit game like fucknite or whatever the zombie gen wankers are all playing.. if you dont like who you’re playing with: stop playing with them #2ndgradeMOMtalk

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by CcB View Post
    We all know that the higher up you go in what's called 'hardcore' gaming(raiding/pvp) the worse attitudes people get because they have it in their minds that whatever they're doing is important. Coupled with that they act worse because they think they're anonymous or that their actions do not affect a person's life in even a minuscule way.

    I have several questions to ask. Why do the greater majority of people tolerate that behavior from a single individual regardless of their skill-level at the game? Why in the majority of communities not have at least one mature individual who rallies others to get the perpetrator(s) of hatred for whatever reason to change their attitude?

    What usually happens is either subtle or outright toxicity back-in-forth without any real mediation. This isn't the case at the highest level because it appears that those people understand a bit of business and psychology.
    most treat that toxicity as price to pay for playing with people capable of clearing stuff that is clearly to overtuned for >90% of playerbase

    this happens when devs cater only to top 5% of players and treat rest like garbage.

    this combined with the fact that devs no longer put into game nerf over time mechanics create toxic puddle that people either choose to swim in or sign out and just do dailies etc for easy gear and ignore instanced content completly

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    Tired of people that make irrelevant comments that say nothing worthwhile, like people that tell someone to play a different game in a post about combat rogues, for example.
    Hah, i hope theres a special place in hell reserved for these kinds of people xD
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaetha View Post
    It's usually because people are just tired of others' shit and they've never learned how to deal with people.

    Tired of people that come in and make the same observation like it's original.

    Tired of people that are all asking the same question or making the same mistakes.

    Tired of people that make irrelevant comments that say nothing worthwhile, like people that tell someone to play a different game in a post about combat rogues, for example.

    Irritating shit like builds up after a while and people get tired of looking at it and lash out.

    Although, some people are just assholes. Most people don't care about others being assholes if it's not to them. That's all there really is to it.
    Then teach them how to deal with people.

    Tell them that it's the same observation without losing your temper.

    Let the person know unless they improve after said raid night you're replacing them. One alternative, such as outbursts affects morale.

    Let the person know why their comment isn't worthwhile. If what's occurring with the game will be fixed you need an alternative.

    Then they need to look inward and find better ways to disperse the anger, that is a reason, not an excuse.

    Why are they assholes? Why do people not care about others being assholes to others?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttwitch View Post
    Are you talking about random groups like pugs? Because people will generally tolerate an asshole because it's a hassle to initiate a convo to tell him to pipe down, and then eventually having to look for a replacement, especially if the asshole is a tank or a healer. Also in m+ you're stuck with him anyway.

    Are you talking about guilds? In guilds it doesn't happen. If someone is an asshole, he will be promptly told to can it or gtfo.
    I'm talking about anywhere in the game setting where it isn't detrimental to immediately replace someone like in the middle of a key.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dacoolist View Post
    First off, if you’re talking about the WoW community, lets check out the latest and greatest top end Raiders, PVPers, and M+’ers at the tip top of the world: Method and Limit, they literally made jokes throughout progress and had a blast throughout the entire rough race to world first the took the world third guild pieces three whole days to catch up and not to mention these three guilds are better at this game than almost any sports team could ever fathom being at their sport on steroids+1000 years from now: all had a blast no shitters like what you’re saying OP.

    Next PVPers: watching blizzcon and tons of invitationals - people at the top having a blast on how dumb shit is with corruptions etc... still making tons of jokes having fun.. same goes for M+’s but a lot of time they are so worried about time their chats are about communication for those extremely quick dungeon pulls..

    All I’m saying is, you’re looking at the game or games from a scrubknight perspective, when you meet real players people that love the game and are top level: they have fun doing it - the people that complain all day are a bunch of shitters that should of quit to go play some shit game like fucknite or whatever the zombie gen wankers are all playing.. if you dont like who you’re playing with: stop playing with them #2ndgradeMOMtalk
    I would love to play at that level but it's genuinely impossible for me and has been since the middle of WoD because schizophrenia fucking blows. imagine temporary cognitive decline throughout several years coupled with a lack of motivation to grind and the ability to focus for more than an hour. and being afraid that everyone is talking smack about you because of hallucinations.

    I addressed those folk in my last sentence though. Just because the people aspiring to be like the ones on top are bad or 'shitters' doesn't mean they are entitled to have a horrific attitude. They should learn something and adapt to what goes on at the highest level but apply it to their guilds and learn how to better deal with lack of player-skill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    most treat that toxicity as price to pay for playing with people capable of clearing stuff that is clearly to overtuned for >90% of playerbase

    this happens when devs cater only to top 5% of players and treat rest like garbage.

    this combined with the fact that devs no longer put into game nerf over time mechanics create toxic puddle that people either choose to swim in or sign out and just do dailies etc for easy gear and ignore instanced content completly
    That's horrible! I understand that the dopamine is so nice from the intense reward from defeating something you put in so many attempts but my gosh how do the people who dish out the toxicity function when they actually listen to their thoughts? I honestly think the devs hate the top 5% of players because of how much they make them grind.

    You do have a good point about things no longer being nerfed though. Still, someone needs to figure out the whole toxicity problem and sort it out to make gaming an overall mentally healthy place for people to spend their time. It has to be done through the bottom-up of players instead of through the leadership of those groups I think.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    Hah, i hope theres a special place in hell reserved for these kinds of people xD
    I don't understand why people cry and cry about a game but do absolutely nothing in protest. The only thing blizzard cares about is the narrative that content developers push due to their influence and the individuals' subscription.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by CcB View Post
    We all know that the higher up you go in what's called 'hardcore' gaming(raiding/pvp) the worse attitudes people get because they have it in their minds that whatever they're doing is important. Coupled with that they act worse because they think they're anonymous or that their actions do not affect a person's life in even a minuscule way.

    I have several questions to ask. Why do the greater majority of people tolerate that behavior from a single individual regardless of their skill-level at the game? Why in the majority of communities not have at least one mature individual who rallies others to get the perpetrator(s) of hatred for whatever reason to change their attitude?

    What usually happens is either subtle or outright toxicity back-in-forth without any real mediation. This isn't the case at the highest level because it appears that those people understand a bit of business and psychology.
    Most people are conditioned / taught that confidence is a strength. This is wrong.

    When an intelligent person is told that confidence is a strength, they would go out and *test* it. Assemble 2 groups of people. 1 group is confident. 1 group is humble. You'll quickly find the humble groups outperform. The reason we teach confidence is important is because that notion comes from your gut feelings. Your gut feelings are pretty much always wrong and should be ignored.

    Someone who is not intelligent, when they are told confidence is a strength, they just internalize it, never question it, never test it. That's what defines stupid people. They do what they are told.

    Your gut tells you confidence is a strength. Your higher order brain functions exist to short circuit crap like that.

    When you see terrible attitudes among hardcore people, its just a group following their gut instinct to destruction.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    most treat that toxicity as price to pay for playing with people capable of clearing stuff that is clearly to overtuned for >90% of playerbase

    this happens when devs cater only to top 5% of players and treat rest like garbage.

    this combined with the fact that devs no longer put into game nerf over time mechanics create toxic puddle that people either choose to swim in or sign out and just do dailies etc for easy gear and ignore instanced content completly
    That's truth. I remember being able to find bunch of nice people in WotLK and clear ICC with most bosses being accessible for most people. Nowadays you must pick top of the top and if you're too picky, you just won't fill the roster, so skill is the only thing. Also most skilled people are inherently toxic, you can check top guild streams, that's a disaster.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by CcB View Post
    We all know that the higher up you go in what's called 'hardcore' gaming(raiding/pvp) the worse attitudes people get because they have it in their minds that whatever they're doing is important. Coupled with that they act worse because they think they're anonymous or that their actions do not affect a person's life in even a minuscule way.

    I have several questions to ask. Why do the greater majority of people tolerate that behavior from a single individual regardless of their skill-level at the game? Why in the majority of communities not have at least one mature individual who rallies others to get the perpetrator(s) of hatred for whatever reason to change their attitude?

    What usually happens is either subtle or outright toxicity back-in-forth without any real mediation. This isn't the case at the highest level because it appears that those people understand a bit of business and psychology.
    EVERY and i mean EVERY time i met someone toxic in this game it was someone who was not actually good at the game. Only thought he was. And that is character trait not something that corrolates with player skill.

    Although: The farther you go up the ladder (skill wise) the more punishing it is to make mistakes. So poeple develope a short fuse for failing. Fail once in normal, no one cares. Fail once in mythic and i is propably a wipe.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kokolums View Post
    Most people are conditioned / taught that confidence is a strength. This is wrong.

    When an intelligent person is told that confidence is a strength, they would go out and *test* it. Assemble 2 groups of people. 1 group is confident. 1 group is humble. You'll quickly find the humble groups outperform. The reason we teach confidence is important is because that notion comes from your gut feelings. Your gut feelings are pretty much always wrong and should be ignored.

    Someone who is not intelligent, when they are told confidence is a strength, they just internalize it, never question it, never test it. That's what defines stupid people. They do what they are told.

    Your gut tells you confidence is a strength. Your higher order brain functions exist to short circuit crap like that.

    When you see terrible attitudes among hardcore people, its just a group following their gut instinct to destruction.
    What if a person is never told to be confident or think for themselves and is taught to only be obedient or else from birth?
    How can you change the overall attitude of these 'hardcore' people toward unity?

  13. #13
    Because they are anonymous and so suffer no real consequences for being a dickhead.

    It might also be that many players doesn't have English as their first language and so most of their vocabulary consists of.. Well foul language.
    Last edited by Donald Hellscream; 2020-03-17 at 07:59 AM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    EVERY and i mean EVERY time i met someone toxic in this game it was someone who was not actually good at the game. Only thought he was. And that is character trait not something that corrolates with player skill.

    Although: The farther you go up the ladder (skill wise) the more punishing it is to make mistakes. So poeple develope a short fuse for failing. Fail once in normal, no one cares. Fail once in mythic and i is propably a wipe.
    There are a few examples of toxic players being above-average at the game. But you're right they usually aren't good if they're going to be mean instead of teaching. I'm confused about how those people who have the audacity to lose their temper at others haven't learned from experience that a fuse regardless of failure during a mythic fight isn't constructive toward the overall goal. I get they feel that the person deserves punishment and they don't actually think about it before dishing out their disciple. hm. I guess I answered my own question. They don't think about the grand scheme of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Hellscream View Post
    Because they are anonymous and so suffer no real consequences for being a dickhead.
    But they suffer the consequence of justifying someone else treating them badly in the future. Because it's easier for them to compartmentalize being treated horribly because they inflicted pain onto someone else so they kind of believe they deserve that treatment. Which is kind of like a cycle that can be fixed at any point
    Last edited by CcB; 2020-03-17 at 08:01 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by CcB View Post
    There are a few examples of toxic players being above-average at the game. I'm confused about how those people who have the audacity to lose their temper at others haven't learned from experience that a fuse regardless of failure during a mythic fight isn't constructive toward the overall goal. I get they feel that the person deserves punishment and they don't actually think about it before dishing out their disciple. hm. I guess I answered my own question. They don't think about the grand scheme of things.

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    But they suffer the consequence of justifying someone else treating them badly in the future. Because it's easier for them to compartmentalize being treated horribly because they inflicted pain onto someone else so they kind of believe they deserve that treatment. Which is kind of like a cycle that can be fixed at any point
    Yeah, but most people at this point just kinda accepts toxicity and handwaves as it being the "internet" and so nothing will ever change in regards to toxic pricks being toxic.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Hellscream View Post
    Yeah, but most people at this point just kinda accepts toxicity and handwaves as it being the "internet" and so nothing will ever change in regards to toxic pricks being toxic.
    Well, as corny as this sounds the change starts with you by calling out those people without attacking then. If you have the energy whenever you see this problem arising. And then explaining it to them at least once how they're affecting others and why their actions aren't productive in any way or sense.

  17. #17
    I think because of the grind. There's no end... just constant doign and redoing of a dungeon for that better piece of loot. Couple that with them probably treating wow as their only source of self confidence plus the anonymity afforded by LFR/LFG and server merges lets them get away with a lot of the toxicity.

    Vanilla didn't really have this problem because there was a definite end to the weekly grind. Unless you were in the very very top guilds, grinding isn't really necessary to participate in that week's raid. Plus what you see is what you get, and if you foul your name, people will spread it via the chats in major cities. As it is now, I don't even bother remember names of players as the chances of me meeting them again is next to none.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by op3l View Post
    I think because of the grind. There's no end... just constant doign and redoing of a dungeon for that better piece of loot. Couple that with them probably treating wow as their only source of self confidence plus the anonymity afforded by LFR/LFG and server merges lets them get away with a lot of the toxicity.

    Vanilla didn't really have this problem because there was a definite end to the weekly grind. Unless you were in the very very top guilds, grinding isn't really necessary to participate in that week's raid. Plus what you see is what you get, and if you foul your name, people will spread it via the chats in major cities. As it is now, I don't even bother remember names of players as the chances of me meeting them again is next to none.
    I guess it'd be too expensive to have GMs actually moderate and ban these people if they're reported in-game. Or talk to them or something like that about why they're performing that action. It'd be counterintuitive because it'd probably make them unsubscribe because they would try to make it not be their only source of self confidence anymore after thinking about it a lot. Idk. If people didn't sit on the sidelines and didn't allow people to act like this regardless of consequences it'd improve enviornments.

  19. #19
    Blizzard really needs to add a Thumbs Up system, like in Overwatch.

    That vast majority if people like to have a good reputation.

    On the other hand, it's also very likely that the morons who abuse raider.io will also abuse this system and use it like one more filter. "You don't have 2k thumbs up-s, you must be toxic, piss off".

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Buttwitch View Post
    Blizzard really needs to add a Thumbs Up system, like in Overwatch.

    That vast majority if people like to have a good reputation.

    On the other hand, it's also very likely that the morons who abuse raider.io will also abuse this system and use it like one more filter. "You don't have 2k thumbs up-s, you must be toxic, piss off".
    Thumbs up system in Overwatch are limited per day and gives you xp, no?

    I know that I just thumbed up people randomly because I find the system pointless but it gives me most rewards.

    The only ranking system that ever works in any game is ELO into MMR, but people hate that system so we just get less accurate systems to please player cries.

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