2020 Recession

[lockybalboa]

I mean... it has a extremely high chance of causes permanent organ damage to even young people with it including lung scarring.

It's a but more of a concern then the flu.

Flu does too. It damages the lung tissues each time. Bit by bit. But because flu is too common people don't pay attention to it.

[Rogue Karl]

Flu does too. It damages the lung tissues each time. Bit by bit. But because flu is too common people don't pay attention to it.

Except it doesn't... it does no permanently damage your lung...

[Santti]

This virus is seriously blown out of proportions by the media who played a part in the big panic. The common flu is equally infectious and kills even more people yearly but doesn't get much attention. This one does because it has a name. And the media is rubbing it in and sensationalizing just for more readership and profits. Totally revolting.

Sorry, but you are just plain misinformed to be comparing Covid-19 to the flu. And the media? What are you on about? What about the countries that are shutting borders and businesses, while quarantining people and forbidding having more than a couple of people gathering together? Is that all because this thing has a name?

You are a fucking moron.

[Fargus]

Recession?

No, try depression.

[segara82]

Right now we have 2008-numbers, and things are getting worse as time goes on:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ar-to-30-in-2q
yes, ladies and gentlemen, we may reach numbers worse than the crash of 1929. Back then we had 25% unemployment at worst.

[Trunksee]

Right now we have 2008-numbers, and things are getting worse as time goes on:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ar-to-30-in-2q
yes, ladies and gentlemen, we may reach numbers worse than the crash of 1929. Back then we had 25% unemployment at worst.

This is almost a guarantee now. We have basically saved rich people money and gave them a better chance to live through this while forgoing the workforce. The workforce will take years to recover if government doesn't throw tons of money at corporations and investors to stabilize the market. No it will not trickle down but it will keep people working. Im sorry but I want to keep working for the forseable future with the rich stabilized and not losing money vs getting a few thousand dollars and losing my job.

[lockybalboa]

Sorry, but you are just plain misinformed to be comparing Covid-19 to the flu. And the media? What are you on about? What about the countries that are shutting borders and businesses, while quarantining people and forbidding having more than a couple of people gathering together? Is that all because this thing has a name?

You are a fucking moron.

All these are caused by pressure exerted by media sensationalism and nincompoops like you who buy into their bullshit. Oh 100 new deaths and 1000 infections today! Fucking doomsday is coming! Are you one of those spend every waking hour worrying about how you would catch a flu and get run over by a car tomorrow? How many people get the flu and die from illness everyday? How about you compare the numbers? I bet you are one of those that hoard all the fucking toilet papers in supermarkets

[Fargus]

All these are caused by pressure exerted by media sensationalism and nincompoops like you who buy into their bullshit. Oh 100 new deaths and 1000 infections today! Fucking doomsday is coming! Are you one of those spend every waking hour worrying about how you would catch a flu and get run over by a car tomorrow? How many people get the flu and die from illness everyday? How about you compare the numbers? I bet you are one of those that hoard all the fucking toilet papers in supermarkets

This virus is far more infectious than flu and has a higher mortality rate. It also has a higher rate of people needing ICU treatment. People also don't have an immunity to it, so if a population gets infected, hospitals are overwhelmed, which have knock-on effects. Having a heart attack? Getting cancer treatment? In a car accident? Your appendix needs removal? Well too bad, ICU is full and your chance of getting this new virus skyrockets and so does your mortality rate.

People like you should have their internet privileges revoked because your utter stupidity and misinformation will cause people to get sick. When's the last time you've seen influenza patients in body bags with several military trucks carrying them? Oh, that's right - never - because you weren't alive when the Spanish Flu killed millions. You're a fucking dumbarse.

[lockybalboa]

This virus is far more infectious than flu and has a higher mortality rate. It also has a higher rate of people needing ICU treatment. People also don't have an immunity to it, so if a population gets infected, hospitals are overwhelmed, which have knock-on effects. Having a heart attack? Getting cancer treatment? In a car accident? Your appendix needs removal? Well too bad, ICU is full and your chance of getting this new virus skyrockets and so does your mortality rate.

People like you should have their internet privileges revoked because your utter stupidity and misinformation will cause people to get sick. When's the last time you've seen influenza patients in body bags with several military trucks carrying them? Oh, that's right - never - because you weren't alive when the Spanish Flu killed millions. You're a fucking dumbarse.

What do you suggest we do beside isolating ourselves then? Panic all day like idiots like it would help and hoard all the fucking toilet papers in supermarkets as people like you? Look at the fucking recovered cases and compare to number of people who die to flu every month and year. Those who died are mainly elderlys who have weaker immune systems. Mortality rate is 2%.Use your brain and don't just be a media heeding sheep. People like you who panic brainlessly and feed on the overblown BS the media gives you are the real dumbarses. And people die all the time due to insufficient infrastructure all along. This have been a long standing issue.

[Fargus]

What do you suggest we do beside isolating ourselves then? Panic all day like idiots like it would help and hoard all the fucking toilet papers in supermarkets as people like you? Look at the fucking recovered cases and compare to number of people who die to flu every month and year. Those who died are mainly elderlys who have weaker immune systems. Mortality rate is 2%.Use your brain and don't just be a media heeding sheep. People like you who panic brainlessly and feed on the overblown BS the media gives you are the real dumbarses. And people die all the time due to insufficient infrastructure all along. This have been a long standing issue.

Yeah, because Italy, Spain, etc are overblown right? Let's see you here back in two weeks when you morons overpass Italy with your health system in ruins.

And 2% is a generous number. That's still more than 0.1%.

[Unholyground]

Except it doesn't... it does no permanently damage your lung...

The scarring does heal over time, just never fully.

[Theodarzna]

In case anyone was wondering Dow at around 19,000 is the point were human sacrifice to appease Mammon is seriously advocated for, any bets on what the Dow is at when feeding kids to Moloch is suggested?

[unbound]

All these are caused by pressure exerted by media sensationalism and nincompoops like you who buy into their bullshit. Oh 100 new deaths and 1000 infections today! Fucking doomsday is coming! Are you one of those spend every waking hour worrying about how you would catch a flu and get run over by a car tomorrow? How many people get the flu and die from illness everyday? How about you compare the numbers? I bet you are one of those that hoard all the fucking toilet papers in supermarkets

Sorry, but it is you who is buying into BS.

Here is reality:
- If the flu infects 40 million people, we expect to see around 450k people hospitalized and about 30k people to die (yes, there are variations to this, but this is average)
- If COVID-19 infects 40 million people, we expect to see between 4 and 8 million people hospitalized and about 800k people to die

That is why we are taking COVID-19 much more seriously. Furthermore, the infection rate of COVID-19 is actually notably higher (between 2 times and 3 times higher), which means this explodes much, much faster than the flu...which is why we talk about flattening the curve. If we let most of the population just go about their normal businesses, we reach 40 million COVID-19 infections in a few weeks rather than typical flu infections over 6 months (total flu season is 8 months long).

And if we don't flatten the curve, that means even more people will die because people who could be saved won't get sufficient care to be saved.

To answer your question regarding deaths, in Italy, we see about 30 deaths a day from flu. They have been seeing more than that with COVID-19 since March 5th, and the latest report shows that they had over 600 COVID-19 deaths in a day.

[segara82]

This is almost a guarantee now. We have basically saved rich people money and gave them a better chance to live through this while forgoing the workforce. The workforce will take years to recover if government doesn't throw tons of money at corporations and investors to stabilize the market. No it will not trickle down but it will keep people working. Im sorry but I want to keep working for the forseable future with the rich stabilized and not losing money vs getting a few thousand dollars and losing my job.

Actually, putting a few thousand bucks into your hands (and everybody else) IS the best way to get things working again. Think about it:
Why do companies lay off tens of thousands of workers? Because people do not buy their products or require their services.
But when the worst is over and people go back outside again, they have cash in their pockets to finally buy goods and services again companies have to rehire. You might loose your job, but only temporarily.
IF you simply keep the companies alive with cheap money but the people don't have any to buy the goods and services the companies will not need to rehire workers to satisfy the rising demand. The company might even lay off more employees to save money for the lean times ahead. You can be jobless permanently.

Austerity is, as you can see around the globe, one of the worst programs to fight poverty and low commercial/economic activity.
Remember, 70% of the economy is consumption. Now that part is dwindling due to reduced opportunity to spend money. But give the people money to spend and those 70% will be back to previous strength in record time.

[lockybalboa]

Sorry, but it is you who is buying into BS.

Here is reality:
- If the flu infects 40 million people, we expect to see around 450k people hospitalized and about 30k people to die (yes, there are variations to this, but this is average)
- If COVID-19 infects 40 million people, we expect to see between 4 and 8 million people hospitalized and about 800k people to die

That is why we are taking COVID-19 much more seriously. Furthermore, the infection rate of COVID-19 is actually notably higher (between 2 times and 3 times higher), which means this explodes much, much faster than the flu...which is why we talk about flattening the curve. If we let most of the population just go about their normal businesses, we reach 40 million COVID-19 infections in a few weeks rather than typical flu infections over 6 months (total flu season is 8 months long).

And if we don't flatten the curve, that means even more people will die because people who could be saved won't get sufficient care to be saved.

To answer your question regarding deaths, in Italy, we see about 30 deaths a day from flu. They have been seeing more than that with COVID-19 since March 5th, and the latest report shows that they had over 600 COVID-19 deaths in a day.

I'm not saying the virus is not a thing and precautions should not be taken. I'm saying it is not as grim and disastrous as what the media would like you to believe. They are covering and reporting like a 1000 new cases of infections spells the end of the world and that kind of bs when we can have easily 10 times the amount of people catching the common flu everyday. The media is capitalizing and exacerbating on people's fear for their agenda. That is my complaint. The disease is infectious but not as deadly as they would like you to believe.

[Trunksee]

Actually, putting a few thousand bucks into your hands (and everybody else) IS the best way to get things working again. Think about it:
Why do companies lay off tens of thousands of workers? Because people do not buy their products or require their services.
But when the worst is over and people go back outside again, they have cash in their pockets to finally buy goods and services again companies have to rehire. You might loose your job, but only temporarily.
IF you simply keep the companies alive with cheap money but the people don't have any to buy the goods and services the companies will not need to rehire workers to satisfy the rising demand. The company might even lay off more employees to save money for the lean times ahead. You can be jobless permanently.

Austerity is, as you can see around the globe, one of the worst programs to fight poverty and low commercial/economic activity.
Remember, 70% of the economy is consumption. Now that part is dwindling due to reduced opportunity to spend money. But give the people money to spend and those 70% will be back to previous strength in record time.

I don't think we disagree. I think we need to do both. Give the companies the capital they need to reset themselves especially small business and large sectors that take the hardest hit in this. I am not in favor of a slush fund and over sight is warranted but big business needs the capital to reset it self so people can spend the money. As it is now most people will be using this stimulus on bills and not putting it into the economy. The banks will get the biggest benefit from this as things are not suspended yet legally just minimal stuff has been done for bills. It will be a way for most to play catch up not pump it into the economy that is shutdown right now.

[PC2]

Actually, putting a few thousand bucks into your hands (and everybody else) IS the best way to get things working again. Think about it:
Why do companies lay off tens of thousands of workers? Because people do not buy their products or require their services.
But when the worst is over and people go back outside again, they have cash in their pockets to finally buy goods and services again companies have to rehire. You might loose your job, but only temporarily.
IF you simply keep the companies alive with cheap money but the people don't have any to buy the goods and services the companies will not need to rehire workers to satisfy the rising demand. The company might even lay off more employees to save money for the lean times ahead. You can be jobless permanently.

Austerity is, as you can see around the globe, one of the worst programs to fight poverty and low commercial/economic activity.
Remember, 70% of the economy is consumption. Now that part is dwindling due to reduced opportunity to spend money. But give the people money to spend and those 70% will be back to previous strength in record time.

Maybe as a one time band-aid but governments and organizations don't have the budget to implement an additional $1K per month program.

[segara82]

Maybe as a one time band-aid but governments and organizations don't have the budget to implement an additional $1K per month program.

Actually, you do. Skip to 8:21 and listen.

[PC2]

Actually, you do. Skip to 8:21 and listen.
[video=youtube;cTsEzmFamZ8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTsEzmFamZ8[video]

No he doesn't explain how there's enough money in the budget. Also his entire idea of UBI is a joke because it's not actually universal, it has all kinds of special exceptions for excluding large amounts of people with eligibility-based disqualifications.

[segara82]

He talks how the US can afford to put 1k into every adult citizens hands every month ad infinituum. If you want to expand on that, go ahead.
But don't say that you can't afford it when someone just calmy listed the numbers and pointed out how to limplement an UBI-like program that helps 80+% of american citizens that can be expanded upon.


Edited for clarification