Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ...
4
5
6
7
8
LastLast
  1. #101
    Dreadlord Frostyfire14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    786
    Yea, I don't know why so many people are having issues with this conceptually. Easy system, for an easy way to catch up alts. Log on to your character(s) who have rank 3 essences so it can be flagged on your account all the rank 3 essences that will appear on MOTHER's vendor list.

    How is this confusing?

  2. #102
    Scarab Lord crakerjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Ptwn, Oregon
    Posts
    4,432
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    There's a difference between "I think Blizzard can do no wrong" and "I think Blizzard did no wrong here." Problem is haters can't think rationally and immediately lump everyone who disagrees with their dislike in the former group.
    So you lumping me into the group of haters is any different? I love the game, I do, but I will also criticize aspects of the game where I feel it falls short. That dude couldn't produce one explanation as to why r3 essences aren't account wide with no strings attached. I however went back and quoted directly from blizzards blue post since the guy was so convinced blizzard gave a rational argument. They gave a reason, but it was far from rational.

    If they had made r3 essences account wide, I would have gone from playing maybe 30 minutes over the course of a week to 6-8 hours a week if not more. I love doing raids/m+ and getting new gear on my alts, but when my playstyle is gimped because I'm missing crucial essences, I lose all interest in playing. And lets not convince ourselves that this is players demanding free power. We're talking about a system that was only just been implemented into the game in patch 8.2. Essences that make up several thousand DPS/HPS/Health/Mitigation shouldn't be something people should be forced to grind over and over and over based on how many alts you have. I wouldn't complain about this system if I only had 2-3 characters, but I have every class at max level and not having access to r3 essences on all my alts makes me lose interest in them. It doesn't matter how much ilvl I grind or what corruption pieces I get, I'll always be burdened by having basic r1 essences.

    The biggest issue is that people have more alts than before because of blizzards doing. Their whole push for allied races only encouraged people to have alts, especially if they leveled them all the way from level 20 in order to obtain the race armor. Fully knowing people will have more alts, they still continued to have people grind these essences out, all of which had timegates involved.

    What doesn't help is that OP is being ridiculous and is hating on the new system for irrational reasons, but there is definitely rational reasons as to why r3 essences should be account wide, whereas there's not a single rational reason as to why they're not. I'll give you the chance to provide a rational reason as to why they're not account wide. Honestly, try to convince me otherwise because I'm convinced blizzard is just trying to maintain MAU's.
    Last edited by crakerjack; 2020-03-18 at 04:50 AM.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  3. #103
    My main was the last toon I logged in today and all my alts got their echoes. So if you don't get echoes on your alts because you didn't first got into your main that's a bug.

    BUT!

    It's blizz here, they decided to call the bug a feature, said it's working as intended and now they don't have to fix anything.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    So you lumping me into the group of haters is any different? I love the game, I do, but I will also criticize aspects of the game where I feel it falls short. That dude couldn't produce one explanation as to why r3 essences aren't account wide with no strings attached. I however went back and quoted directly from blizzards blue post since the guy was so convinced blizzard gave a rational argument. They gave a reason, but it was far from rational.

    If they had made r3 essences account wide, I would have gone from playing maybe 30 minutes over the course of a week to 6-8 hours a week if not more. I love doing raids/m+ and getting new gear on my alts, but when my playstyle is gimped because I'm missing crucial essences, I lose all interest in playing. And lets not convince ourselves that this is players demanding free power. We're talking about a system that was only just been implemented into the game in patch 8.2. Essences that make up several thousand DPS/HPS/Health/Mitigation shouldn't be something people should be forced to grind over and over and over based on how many alts you have. I wouldn't complain about this system if I only had 2-3 characters, but I have every class at max level and not having access to r3 essences on all my alts makes me lose interest in them. It doesn't matter how much ilvl I grind or what corruption pieces I get, I'll always be burdened by having basic r1 essences.

    The biggest issue is that people have more alts than before because of blizzards doing. Their whole push for allied races only encouraged people to have alts, especially if they leveled them all the way from level 20 in order to obtain the race armor. Fully knowing people will have more alts, they still continued to have people grind these essences out, all of which had timegates involved.

    What doesn't help is that OP is being ridiculous and is hating on the new system for irrational reasons, but there is definitely rational reasons as to why r3 essences should be account wide, whereas there's not a single rational reason as to why they're not. I'll give you the chance to provide a rational reason as to why they're not account wide. Honestly, try to convince me otherwise because I'm convinced blizzard is just trying to maintain MAU's.
    You're awfully defensive assuming I was calling you a hater. Hmm. They're alts. They're not supposed to be as powerful as your mains. You've been given a catchup, which is more than I think is needed. You calling their reasoning irrational does not make it so. You losing interest in your alts because they're not equal to your main is a you problem, not a Blizzard problem. You dismissing every argument you get sent as "irrational" is simply you being just that.
    "Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer." Powerogue 2019

  5. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by MakeMeLaugh View Post
    My main was the last toon I logged in today and all my alts got their echoes. So if you don't get echoes on your alts because you didn't first got into your main that's a bug.

    BUT!

    It's blizz here, they decided to call the bug a feature, said it's working as intended and now they don't have to fix anything.
    Except as others have stated, it has been this way ever since Blizz did account wide features such as transmog, mount count, rep count, etc.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    It is always easy on this side of the table.

    We have no idea how the data is arranged. No idea how their code works or how much data is available and how they all linked to together.

    It is always easy to criticize something without actually being involved in it.
    If you read what I actually wrote, you'll realize I'm not really criticizing. This stuff happens, even in "serious", mission critical software (like having space crafts smash into surface of Mars due to metric conversion error).

    But on that note - they really should have posted the information about how this feature works before the patch went live. Having it come after people started opening their chests (probably triggered by support tickets) was not very good.

  7. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Eapoe View Post
    Except as others have stated, it has been this way ever since Blizz did account wide features such as transmog, mount count, rep count, etc.
    Nope, as I said, I got echoes on my alts even though I didn't even log into my main.

    Bug being called a featured for the sake of not having to fix it, classic move.

  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeymootwo View Post
    ... you shouldn’t be getting them on your main anyway unless it’s missing a rank 3 one of your alts has.
    After looking I was able to get some heal ones but I could have sworn I unlocked everything. Does that mean you stop getting them once i grab the heals ones I'm missing?

  9. #109
    Holy hell, it's official. The playerbase will bitch no matter what Blizzard does.

  10. #110
    Recode it, submit your fix to Blizzard, and apply for a position.

    Unless you're too big of a deal to apply to such an indie company. Though, if that's the case you might have to think to yourself, "hmmmmm all the other big brains like me can't be bothered with such a company....I guess that means if they don't have access to any big brain people like me they can't be expected to produce super top notch systems that behave exactly the way I want them to...I guess that means I'd be pretty silly for making whine posts on forums related to such things."

    Both options are good; your pick.
    SorryNotSorry

  11. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by MakeMeLaugh View Post
    Nope, as I said, I got echoes on my alts even though I didn't even log into my main.

    Bug being called a featured for the sake of not having to fix it, classic move.
    Yeah, somehow I doubt this as, so far as I am aware, you’re the only person that has made this claim.

  12. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty123456 View Post
    After looking I was able to get some heal ones but I could have sworn I unlocked everything. Does that mean you stop getting them once i grab the heals ones I'm missing?
    You'll only receive the Echos if there are essences you can buy with them that you don't have. Once you've bought the essences, you'll stop getting the Echos, until such a time as there's an essence you don't have(for example, if you get a new rank 3 essence on an alt you don't have on your main, your main will start getting Echos)
    Quote Originally Posted by Fascinate View Post
    i find it hard to believe some random raid from BFA would draw in more players than the battleground patch in classic
    Quote Originally Posted by arkanon View Post
    FruitySalad boy, this is a fantastic thread and is really going places. I just want to make sure I'm on page one of what is bound to be a long lasting and productive thread. It's amazing there are no other threads discussing the squish, as I'm confident you would have just posted in them if they did exist.

  13. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostyfire14 View Post
    Yea, I don't know why so many people are having issues with this conceptually. Easy system, for an easy way to catch up alts. Log on to your character(s) who have rank 3 essences so it can be flagged on your account all the rank 3 essences that will appear on MOTHER's vendor list.

    How is this confusing?
    Here's the issue: you'd only know the "proper" way to unlock this system if you follow Twitter. There is a commonly occurring issue with WoW on many fronts, and that issue is that Blizz relies WAY too heavily on external sites/resources to communicate information that should be available in-game. Most of the player base doesn't follow fan sites, let alone the forums or Twitter. Expecting a system to roll out as intended by making assumptions that are nowhere likely to occur is an exercise in stupidity.

    I honestly thought the system would be characters would start accruing this new currency if you didn't have all the rank 3 essences for that character, simple as that. However, the system is not as simple as that, even though it could be. Arguments against having to "prime" the echoes to start dropping isn't a crazy idea; just because it's the way it's always been doesn't mean it has to be or will be. All the account info is held on the server side anyways, having the system do a 1-time check for essences on your account isn't some earth-shattering concept that can only be done with future tech.

    After reading through the wall of blue text again when it comes to the essences themselves, I can easily see how the rollout was screwed up: it's pretty evident that the development mindset is stagnant in one way of thinking. Doesn't mean the player base mentality is always right, it's just that there doesn't seem to be much diversity, questioning, or pushback from within their development team. This is especially evident when they go to reason out why they didn't make essences account-wide, as it completely ignores why players even care. The problem is that many essences are not only tied to "old content" grinds, but also essences are insanely powerful and necessary for a character to even function and perform well. Such a mentality disconnect is pretty common when your get so absorbed in your own bubble. Over time, all your decisions and thought processes comes from the basis that everyone else understands you or is a part of your bubble, and then you start implementing ideas that are bound to not go as planned because those assumptions are wrong. Blizz development is currently stuck in their own bubble, which is why they appear to disconnected from the players.

    If anything, development team needs a helluva lot more exposure to the player base. We can tin-foil hat all day about QA/CM staff getting cut being the issue, but as things stand right now their decisions are indicative of an echo chamber of their own peers and ideas. If I had to hazard a guess from the wording/tone of the blue posts, Blizz is being insanely dogmatic to where reality keeps passing them by. Last of all, keep the solutions simple. Half the reason this got botched was because it was done in a fashion that is asking for problems by adding more systems instead of building up or adding to existing systems (KISS principle is very applicable here). For example, Blizz could've just added the essences to Wrathion and make them purchasable with mementos, completely negating the necessity of the "priming" of the system in order to obtain the purchasing currency and avoiding the addition of another currency altogether that'll just add up and be useless.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  14. #114
    I am really sorry for the people who frequent these community forums to gather feedback for Blizzard. Then we wonder why tons of good class feedback gets lost...

  15. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by exochaft View Post
    Here's the issue: you'd only know the "proper" way to unlock this system if you follow Twitter. There is a commonly occurring issue with WoW on many fronts, and that issue is that Blizz relies WAY too heavily on external sites/resources to communicate information that should be available in-game.
    It's on the launcher in a big red box so I didn't need to read any more to know you're completely ignorant.
    "Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer." Powerogue 2019

  16. #116
    Stood in the Fire Vorality's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    450
    Quote Originally Posted by Trend View Post
    If you were a game designer I would not play your game. You state something as fact that I think it pretty dumb. I would not have a problem with someone disagreeing and saying that one con outweighs the other (that's reasonable), but to be completely incapable of conceding there is a downside is just really sad.

    Your example of the pearls is fantastic and points to what I'm talking about. You can spend them no matter who you are. It is absolutely not a currency that you get that is inherently not usable. Thank you for furthering my point.

    Lastly, IMO you should calm the fuck down. Nobody is pillaging your house and carrying off your children to the slave market.
    I'm calm my man. Because you think it, doesn't will it into existence. Hardly against my point...we all gain currencies that we will never use. Yes, we can spend them, but most of the time we never will. Echoes that are unused at the end of the expansion gets turned into gold just like other currencies at the end of the season. Furthermore, you may have a higher rank of an essence on another character rather than main. For example, a healer or tank alt that has the spec specific essences that you didn't work for on your main, or couldn't even. Yet, when you logged on your main with most of your essences, but didn't log on your alts with the spec specific ones...and you opened your chests on your main...well you're out a few hundred echoes.

    So yeah, there is an upside - even if small - to give everyone the currency no matter what. But again, I thank you for your unwavering intelligence.

    Truly, you're a man to be revered as a master debater. Or maybe you're a masterbai.....nevermind. Have a good day man and quit assuming so much followed up by some badly thought out insults

  17. #117
    Umm so... I received this currency on my main. All other 120s I have are basically freshly leveled, none of them has any rank 3 essence.

    I got 175 echoes for conquest cap and 300 for m15 week chest.

    Is it a bug or did I not understand something?

    EDIT: And now I received 50 echoes from emissary. Since reset I logged only on my main.
    Last edited by keymil; 2020-03-18 at 08:37 AM.

  18. #118
    Surely it's not a big deal, but in this case is also counterintuitive for people like me who rerolled after EP.

    I play hunter now, and I had no will power to farm EP raid essence again, so I was looking forward to use my rogue's essence. I hope I can still get it even if I logged my main first, earlier today, as I haven't checked any fansite yesterday so I had no idea you had to "trigger" the system by logging the toon who owns the essence.

  19. #119
    Scarab Lord crakerjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Ptwn, Oregon
    Posts
    4,432
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    You're awfully defensive assuming I was calling you a hater. Hmm. They're alts. They're not supposed to be as powerful as your mains. You've been given a catchup, which is more than I think is needed. You calling their reasoning irrational does not make it so. You losing interest in your alts because they're not equal to your main is a you problem, not a Blizzard problem. You dismissing every argument you get sent as "irrational" is simply you being just that.
    And how exactly are you different by saying my actions are irrational right after accusing me of doing the same to others. Well guess what, you still didn't produce a rational argument. "Your alts shouldn't be as powerful as your main" says who? If I have proper secondary stats and my ilvl of an alt is similar to my main (not considering corruption gear) should they not be similar in power? What if I had 10 other alts that are the same ilvl, should they not be as powerful as the next? Guess what I would do without r3 essences, a hint: The same exact stuff I'd do with them.

    Blizzard themselves even stated in the blue post that people get sick of doing the same progression arcs over and over and over. So then they created a currency system in order to buy r3 essences on your alts, obviously as an alternative to the boring essence grind. Their justification for not making it account wide with zero conditions is that they didn't want to take progression away from players. That part has to be the biggest load of shit out of the entire thing. I've seen numerous threads of people pissed off, demanding r3 essences be account-wide. How many people have you seen raving about how amazing their essence grinds are? How about when they're grinding them on their 3rd/4th alt? I don't know anyone. If there was any consensus out there, it was a sigh of relieve once you finally obtained your r3 essence from a tedious grind (worldvein/blood).

    And then you have the audacity to say I'm being irrational and not making any valid points when you've failed to produce one. You want to slander me as some WoW-hating-fanatic, but reality is, I too enjoy the game, possibly even more than you. But again, I'm not going to act like Blizzard is incapable of fucking up. By creating a currency system and not making r3 essences account wide from the get go (again this is a feature only just added last patch, nothing ingrained in the game), blizzard pretty much said "We heard you, but we're going to do it on our terms".

    Just go back to the roots where there's a direct correlation between gear progression and how powerful your character becomes. I'd have to do about 33~ 5+ keystones just to get enough echoes for 1 r3 essence, so technically a little over 100 +5 keystones for just 3 on one character. I can gear up an alt in a single day by grinding keystones, but yet I'd have to wait weeks upon weeks in order to get all my essences. That's just considering one alt, so no, I think it's FAR from what's needed and so do others. Blizzard dropped the ball again, whether you want to acknowledge it or not.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  20. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    Yea blizzard definitely dropped the ball. The amount of grinding it takes to unlock r3 on an alt is too much. By the time I'm done grinding and have 3 r3 essences unlocked, I'll probably be burnt out and unable to enjoy my character that now has its full toolkit. The way I'm looking at it is that without access to rank 3 essences, you're pretty much playing with one hand behind your back since you don't have access to your full toolkit. Once you get your necessary r3 essences, it's like having that hand freed and you're now able to play the game with both hands. You don't get access to any new content or gain anything. By trying to meet in the middle and not hand out r3 essences to those that have earned it on atleast 1 character, they've failed to make anyone happy. I thought I'd return to WoW and get a few r3 essences on my alts that are 450+ ilvl w/ 3 or so r1 essences, but that won't be the case. My alts are still gimped and the possibility of unlocking 3 or so r3 essences on each one is still a huge time consumption.
    on what drugs are you on? i opend 2 boxes today for 450 echos did 1 emissary and had C&S on my Alt not sure what grind you are talking about
    BFA Season 3


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •