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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Thelxi View Post
    I actually read the OP and he is saying that he had a bad experience leveling an alt with random people in dungeons, so get a guild because people that pug don't know how to interrupt.

    Since I have so much energy locked in the house these days, let me inform the OP that there are many many much more skilled players than him that do nothing but pug all day long. If anything the game right now is more bleeding-edge pug-friendly than it has ever been.

    I'll take it even further and argue that guilds are far from a haven for skilled players. Even in the most hardcore progression guilds there often is dead weight that has to be carried by the rest of the group. If anything, the main advantage that guilds provide is social pressure and accountability, something that noobs like the OP need in order to perform and stay cordial.
    From my experience, you need raider IO or something additional to be 100% successful in pugs.

    I tried every week to push my mythic keystone as high as possible and the skill cap for completely random groups seemed to be Mythic +8 or +9 (at best)
    Random pugs are just...too random.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    I personally did it as an experiment...just like Preach does his experiment videos.

    Im not a psychopath though.
    On my Mythic 0 Group finder title i put "FH mythic 0 bad geared tank"

    And people joined

    On the LFR situation...yeah...that was pretty bad on my part...
    Oh I see what you did there, all good fun then since people were warned beforehand.

    But boy some of the timewalking dungeons this reset has been filled with weird players.
    One I ran yesterday had a tank who asked us how to tank while he used zero mitigation.

    Things like that makes me miss the proving grounds-silver requirement to queue LFD from WoD.

  3. #23
    Nothing new. Playing with randoms is generally terrible, not only because they are bad, but also because of their attitudes they feel they can get away with. Pugging is fine sometimes and is needed in some cases, but for most scenarios it's rather unpleasant. Pugging is like a public toilet - you go there when you need it and you want it to be over asap.

    And yeah, timewalking right now is absolute shitshow. It was a terrible idea on Blizz's part that they buffed it because of corruptions when a large portion of people doing TW are newbies who are leveling. I would advise to just skip TW for now unless you want to be frustrated and spend ages doing those old dungeons

  4. #24
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Since i know how mmo-champion works, no, i am not trying to be an asshole or show off, more of a rant.

    Its timewalking week, they fixed essence catchup, so why not level up that alt i left at 110 last year right? It takes a few hours for easy 2 Rank 3 essences + cloak, so why not play that Shaman afterall now.

    Which i leveled through quests because i couldnt be bothered with dungeons, i leveled every other char that way, just wanted to slow poke it at BoD burn out so a good 2 years without actually pugging anything.

    Big god damn mistake.

    Of course you people dont like the game if thats the level you are playing at actively.

    For every 1 "Decent" tank not even remotely good, just a tank that presses their mitigation button, there are 9 clueless, i dont even know what to describe them as, cause they aint tanks.

    For every 1 "decent dps", there are 49 "WHY ARE YOU EVEN ONLINE" "Do you have a keyboard?"

    This last few hours, did not classify as "Playing World of Warcraft", if i didnt know better and i returned to this mess , i would unsub instantly again, i would simply alt+f4 after the first dungeon and not return.

    Seriously, the game you are playing at the daily pug world, is not how World of Warcraft is meant to be played, for the love of god, get a guild, learn basic interrupts and more importantly, WASD.
    I have been on both sides - guild raiding and pugging...and definitely prefer being in a guild and doing content with friends. But maybe that worked, because I helped build the guild from the ground and we stayed together for 8 years.

    These days, I pug my 5 mans, especially in TW weeks. This week it has been so bad like never before. Especially getting a DH as a tank is several guaranteed wipes. Nope, not dps going "pull faster tank", but the ppl playing this oh so mobile class and always charging in with half HP not even looking where the healer is.

    And ofc we kept getting Pit of Saron where ppl fail on literally anything they can fail on. My other favorite is getting HoL and a 100% assured wipe in the room after Ionar because apparently tanks have forgotten how to pull and position mobs so they don't aggro patrols.

    The icing on the cake was AN / AK - DH again, just before the final boss...couldn't wait bloody 2 seconds before engaging the trash, Healer was still catching up, ofc on the ramp he was LoSed while the tank also pulled an extra pack. Not only a wipe here, but after res, the idiot kept charging ahead and constantly aggroing packs we skipped before. So instead of just waiting the damn 2 seconds for all to be at the location, we wiped our way over what felt like 10 minutes again and again to the last boss.

    Meh...probably still faster than vote kicking the tank, since getting a new one can take ages, but yeah...very frustrating. ( i disagree on interrupts - that is the job of everyone who has an interrupt to contribute...or to CC the odd mob)

    But to answer your question...I don't have issues with the game because of THAT.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    Oh I see what you did there, all good fun then since people were warned beforehand.

    But boy some of the timewalking dungeons this reset has been filled with weird players.
    One I ran yesterday had a tank who asked us how to tank while he used zero mitigation.

    Things like that makes me miss the proving grounds-silver requirement to queue LFD from WoD.
    Haha...I agree. My weird experience was the above mentioned in HoL with a Blood DK who had a healthbar that went up and down like a yoyo..and I was like "Should a DK be so squishy". Should have known it the moment he pulled a pack before the first boss WHILE that boss approached and tanked them right there. Boss engaged, wipe - and then he accused others that they pulled o_O - It continued with healer dying because he didn't gather up adds...etc..etc...what a shitshow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Azerate View Post
    I would advise to just skip TW for now unless you want to be frustrated and spend ages doing those old dungeons
    Hehe...too late - now I am smarter in hindsight. Yeah...I actually did all 5 in hope for a nice corrupted reward...and it was just the worst trinket possible - 4 of the 5 runs were like getting a root canal treatment
    Last edited by det; 2020-03-21 at 11:27 AM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Gonfer View Post
    Well, that surely helps a little bit. But it was not about lootmongering only what i had issues with. My biggest issue is that the raiding game in WoW and raid guilds are not about "playing together with friends", but it is just about playing together to get the best loot, and about performance, and not people who like each others.

    People confuse a game with a second job.
    It’s probably got a lot to do with your attitude. You’re a very whiny individual from what I’ve seen you post. If you’re so thinly skinned that you can’t go out into the community, find a guild, and leave it if they turn out to be dicks, then that’s definitely a you problem. In all my years of playing WoW, I’ve encountered the guilds you describe ONCE.

    I left, found a new one, and went about my business. If you’re finding yourself being kicked because stuff isn’t dying, or stuff is becoming considerably harder because of your performance, you can’t really blame them.


    My guild downed heroic N’Zoth, and we’ve got a single hunter we carry the shit out of. We don’t give a shit, guys got a positive attitude about it. He’s cool. If for whatever reason, we ever got to a point where it was just impossible because of him, and we asked him to step out for that boss, he’d do it and he’d be reinvited as soon as the boss dies. This is not the first guild I’ve been in that does this.

    Maybe I’m lucky and I just manage to find the right guilds for what I want to accomplish, or maybe it’s just my attitude that allows me to persevere. Hell, maybe it’s maybelline. But you’re definitely going to have a hard time finding anything positive with your negative attitude.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    It’s probably got a lot to do with your attitude. You’re a very whiny individual from what I’ve seen you post. If you’re so thinly skinned that you can’t go out into the community, find a guild, and leave it if they turn out to be dicks, then that’s definitely a you problem. In all my years of playing WoW, I’ve encountered the guilds you describe ONCE.

    I left, found a new one, and went about my business. If you’re finding yourself being kicked because stuff isn’t dying, or stuff is becoming considerably harder because of your performance, you can’t really blame them.


    My guild downed heroic N’Zoth, and we’ve got a single hunter we carry the shit out of. We don’t give a shit, guys got a positive attitude about it. He’s cool. If for whatever reason, we ever got to a point where it was just impossible because of him, and we asked him to step out for that boss, he’d do it and he’d be reinvited as soon as the boss dies. This is not the first guild I’ve been in that does this.

    Maybe I’m lucky and I just manage to find the right guilds for what I want to accomplish, or maybe it’s just my attitude that allows me to persevere. Hell, maybe it’s maybelline. But you’re definitely going to have a hard time finding anything positive with your negative attitude.
    This.

    Guilds are like everything else in the world, there are bad ones and there are good ones. We could argue all eternity whether there's more good ones or the bad ones, the fact remains that if you find a good guild (not progress wise, but atmosphere wise) it makes your wow experience much better than just playing solo. And yeah, based on my own experience and from what I'm hearing from friends, casual/heroic guilds are often relaxed and laid back. It's way easier to get stuff done in them than in pugs, that much is for sure. I could never get m+15s or curve through pugs, yet I'm easily able to do that with my guild every tier for years now.

  7. #27
    Stood in the Fire Phantombeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Since i know how mmo-champion works, no, i am not trying to be an asshole or show off, more of a rant.

    Its timewalking week, they fixed essence catchup, so why not level up that alt i left at 110 last year right? It takes a few hours for easy 2 Rank 3 essences + cloak, so why not play that Shaman afterall now.

    Which i leveled through quests because i couldnt be bothered with dungeons, i leveled every other char that way, just wanted to slow poke it at BoD burn out so a good 2 years without actually pugging anything.

    Big god damn mistake.

    Of course you people dont like the game if thats the level you are playing at actively.

    For every 1 "Decent" tank not even remotely good, just a tank that presses their mitigation button, there are 9 clueless, i dont even know what to describe them as, cause they aint tanks.

    For every 1 "decent dps", there are 49 "WHY ARE YOU EVEN ONLINE" "Do you have a keyboard?"

    This last few hours, did not classify as "Playing World of Warcraft", if i didnt know better and i returned to this mess , i would unsub instantly again, i would simply alt+f4 after the first dungeon and not return.

    Seriously, the game you are playing at the daily pug world, is not how World of Warcraft is meant to be played, for the love of god, get a guild, learn basic interrupts and more importantly, WASD.
    What do you mean? You People?

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    For every 1 "Decent" tank not even remotely good, just a tank that presses their mitigation button, there are 9 clueless, i dont even know what to describe them as, cause they aint tanks.
    I always said, hunter pet is better tank than most of tanks.

    And in all honesty, this is how average player skills are. This is why I am up for making best gear effort gated not skill gated simply because those players will try to get something better, probably trying M+ and fail miserably.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    It’s probably got a lot to do with your attitude.
    My "attitude" was that a raiding guild i was in kicked a friend of mine because he was not performing. I tried to tell the raidleader that he should know my friend was disabled. He did not care.

    That is the bad "attitude" of raiding guilds in World of Warcraft. And that was only one of many incidents i could tell you about.

    I do not want to play a game together with people who measure others only by performance. For example your very own attitude in your post. I would rather pug any group than to play together with your alikes.

    The raiding commuinity in wow is rotten to the core. You are just one of them, and showing.

    I do not need libertarianism and ellbow society in a computer game. The world already is filled with it. I rather play world quests with my friend than playing in a raid and play matchmade groups only.

    If a community is mainly built out of asshats, i do not want to be part of it.
    Last edited by Gonfer; 2020-03-21 at 12:38 PM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    I will never understand why someone would rather do pugs all the time over getting a raiding guild.
    Raiding guilds have a schedule.

  11. #31
    I am Murloc! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makorus View Post
    I hope people who act like "I dont wanna join guilds because I dont want the game to feel like a job! I'd rather PUG for 20 hours a week" because they have to invest 3 hours a week into a guild will never ever even influence the game in the slightest.
    Lets be honest here. Those people are just terribly insecure and most likely bad at playing the game. That's why they avoid guilds.
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Gonfer View Post
    text
    You keep coming with your negative attitude about things even when presented with sollutions from people, maybe its not them and its you.
    You are after all the common denominator in these anecdotes that you're giving.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Gonfer View Post
    My "attitude" was that a raiding guild i was in kicked a friend of mine because he was not performing. I tried to tell the raidleader that he should know my friend was disabled. He did not care.

    That is the bad "attitude" of raiding guilds in World of Warcraft. And that was only one of many incidents i could tell you about.

    I do not want to play a game together with people who measure others only by performance. For example your very own attitude in your post. I would rather pug any group than to play together with your alikes.

    The raiding commuinity in wow is rotten to the core. You are just one of them, and showing.

    I do not need libertarianism and ellbow society in a computer game. The world already is filled with it. I rather play world quests with my friend than playing in a raid and play matchmade groups only.

    If a community is mainly built out of asshats, i do not want to be part of it.
    Yeah, thats a terrible excuse on your side, and your attempt to categorize all raiding guilds as such is weak and shows a massive lack of everything.

    Disabled players are a thin line to talk about, i dont agree with any guild kicking them, but at the same time its your friends side to accept he is underperforming, and the game at some point requires things, so he can ask for help or info on how to get better.

    If he cant do them, its his side that has to be mature and sit out or find ways to adapt, not the guild to suck it up and go with it, especially if its a guild of struggling lower skilled players,and there isnt any room for carrying.

    I joined a raid group 6 years ago,they are still part of my raid group the majority of them, there was a 69 year old man in that raid group, that he himself said one day "He is starting not to be able to keep up with the game and how the raiding is becoming harder" and he sat himself out because he knew the group was already struggling, and he wasnt helping in the least by being dead everywhere.

    Thats the proper attitude by the way.

    Not crying about it, there isnt a magical world where people will sit back and wipe forever because you want to play with your friend(s), disregarding the rest of the guild.

    It sounds to me someone else is the problem and they havent figured it out yet.
    Last edited by potis; 2020-03-21 at 12:52 PM.

  14. #34
    The time they decided that Tanks should be able to deal damage, is the day the quality of Tanks dropped off the cliff.

  15. #35
    Legendary! Nnyco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonfer View Post
    I would rather play the worst pug ever than trying to find a premade group in World of Warcraft. Or a raiding guild.

    There is nothing more toxic to me than raiding guilds.
    Not sure what guilds you been to, but guilds are usually way better than any pug could even dream to be.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Gonfer View Post
    My "attitude" was that a raiding guild i was in kicked a friend of mine because he was not performing. I tried to tell the raidleader that he should know my friend was disabled. He did not care.

    That is the bad "attitude" of raiding guilds in World of Warcraft. And that was only one of many incidents i could tell you about.

    I do not want to play a game together with people who measure others only by performance. For example your very own attitude in your post. I would rather pug any group than to play together with your alikes.

    The raiding commuinity in wow is rotten to the core. You are just one of them, and showing.

    I do not need libertarianism and ellbow society in a computer game. The world already is filled with it. I rather play world quests with my friend than playing in a raid and play matchmade groups only.

    If a community is mainly built out of asshats, i do not want to be part of it.
    I have no ill will towards you. Whatever toxicity you’re feeling from my post is all conjured from within your own mind, and the way you read into things. I don’t care how disabled someone is, if we’re downing content then they can do as they please.

    But if we get to a wall, an actual wall, where it is obvious that we are NOT going to kill it because of his/her lack of ability, then they will have to step out as to not impede on the others time in the group. When that boss dies, they will be reinvited. There’s no drama about it, there’s no shittalking them while they’re gone. Eventually we’ll be able to carry them through everything once we gear past it.

    If you’re experiencing this often, then it’s probably because you’re too sensitive to realize what’s happening in the situation. All you know is you/your friend have been “victimized” and you’re in your feelings. You probably start screeching about it, talking about how it’s unfair, and rather than trying to deal with an emotional person who can’t grasp the situation at hand, they kick you and your friend.

    Again, it’s your attitude. Own up to when you/your friends can’t perform, and your life will be easier. I’m positive that most of your bad experiences were mostly you/your friend misunderstanding the why and only focusing on the what.

    Other people have real lives too. We don’t have time to explain to you for an hour we still want to be your friend while simultaneously trying to get you out of the raid so we can kill the boss and get you back in. We don’t have time to wipe/struggle with a mechanic during our free time.** We have goals we want to achieve in game, and if you’re stopping us from getting there, then you’re benched for that fight.

    If you want to be emotional and call us all kinds of names, then that’s your prerogative and you can practice social distancing. But it’s not our problem.
    I’ve tried to explain this as thoroughly as I can as to not trigger you.


    **when I say wipe/struggle with a mechanic, I mean past the point where it’s obvious that the boss just won’t die because of it.

  17. #37
    Timewalking is also significantly harder this time around since they altered some things trying to balance things for essences, corruption and azerite gear. I know when I was tanking I was getting hammered compared to how I normally get hit. Wrath TW also seems to be one of the worst ones since there are things that often need to be interrupted or dispelled and ppl suck at both. I watched a tank zerg in and pull 3 spell flingers and murder themselves and the healer as the casts went off.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    I personally did it as an experiment...just like Preach does his experiment videos.

    Im not a psychopath though.
    On my Mythic 0 Group finder title i put "FH mythic 0 bad geared tank"

    And people joined

    On the LFR situation...yeah...that was pretty bad on my part...
    As long as ppl are upfront in group descriptions many don't mind and are happy to do whatever. It is the people who are either delusional or trying to be sneaky that form groups and end up having ppl ditch mid run.
    "Privilege is invisible to those who have it."

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Gonfer View Post
    My "attitude" was that a raiding guild i was in kicked a friend of mine because he was not performing. I tried to tell the raidleader that he should know my friend was disabled. He did not care.

    That is the bad "attitude" of raiding guilds in World of Warcraft. And that was only one of many incidents i could tell you about.

    I do not want to play a game together with people who measure others only by performance. For example your very own attitude in your post. I would rather pug any group than to play together with your alikes.

    The raiding commuinity in wow is rotten to the core. You are just one of them, and showing.

    I do not need libertarianism and ellbow society in a computer game. The world already is filled with it. I rather play world quests with my friend than playing in a raid and play matchmade groups only.

    If a community is mainly built out of asshats, i do not want to be part of it.
    Stop joining hardcore guilds if you want to be casual. If you applied for a job and refused to do what the employer stated was the job requirements beforehand, would you also consider them the asshole?

    There are guilds that offer what you want. They also raid. They're not going to be progressing mythic. They may not even clear heroic, and that's fine. That's literally why the different difficulties exist. They are not a linear progression. It's simply too difficult for a guild that doesn't want to be that organized or ask a minimum level of performance from their players. It's not a toxicity thing. It's just the truth.

    Mythic raids are not something you can just do on a lark. Mythic is tuned so tightly that players have to perform to a higher level. They have to do research and know how to gear and play their class. Not to do well, to do anything. You're simply not going to clear Heroic or kill even one mythic boss if you want to put in Normal effort, so joining a guild trying to progress Mythic or clear Heroic with that attitude is disrespectful of the other people in the raid's time.

    If you don't wish to put in more effort to optimize your play, that's fine. You can play how you want, but when you join a group, you take on a responsibility to not waste other players' time. If you're not pulling your weight, they're allowed to ask you to put in more effort because you're wasting the time of everyone else in the group. If you refuse to do so, it's not them that are toxic. You accept that burden in a social contract when you join that kind of guild. When you break that contract, you're the asshat.

  19. #39
    Old God Seranthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gonfer View Post
    My "attitude" was that a raiding guild i was in kicked a friend of mine because he was not performing. I tried to tell the raidleader that he should know my friend was disabled. He did not care.

    That is the bad "attitude" of raiding guilds in World of Warcraft. And that was only one of many incidents i could tell you about.

    I do not want to play a game together with people who measure others only by performance. For example your very own attitude in your post. I would rather pug any group than to play together with your alikes.

    The raiding commuinity in wow is rotten to the core. You are just one of them, and showing.

    I do not need libertarianism and ellbow society in a computer game. The world already is filled with it. I rather play world quests with my friend than playing in a raid and play matchmade groups only.

    If a community is mainly built out of asshats, i do not want to be part of it.
    So start your own guild... be the hero of your own drama... You are the architect of your own situation.

    --- Want any of my Constitutional rights?, ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
    I come from a time and a place where I judge people by the content of their character; I don't give a damn if you are tall or short; gay or straight; Jew or Gentile; White, Black, Brown or Green; Conservative or Liberal. -- Note to mods: if you are going to infract me have the decency to post the reason, and expect to hold everyone else to the same standard.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    Timewalking is also significantly harder this time around since they altered some things trying to balance things for essences, corruption and azerite gear. I know when I was tanking I was getting hammered compared to how I normally get hit. Wrath TW also seems to be one of the worst ones since there are things that often need to be interrupted or dispelled and ppl suck at both.
    I think a lot of people are eating shit in Wrath timewalking dungeons because they're used to mid-late Wrath, when Triumph emblems were plentiful and you were walking into dungeons with full t9, or ToC5 epics while you built up your t9 set and Argent Tournament/ToC5 weapons (never mind the Year of ICC when Frost emblems were plentiful enough for most level 80s who actively ran dungeons to kit in a full set of t10 and Frozen Halls weapons). At that point you didn't really need to worry about interrupts and the like because you were steamrolling it through sheer numerical superiority. Back at launch, CCing was much more important.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



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