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  1. #121
    Warchief Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    This is 100% blizzard’s fault, not the players. They make new content and they want everyone to do everything and that’s just not very fun for a lot of people who don’t like many aspects of the game.

    This always hits mythic raiders the hardest because to be competitive they always end up having to do everything.

    It doesn’t have to be this way.
    One could argue that the game isn't trying to force you to do anything, the community you choose to be a part of is pressuring you to. If you don't like that pressure, find a new community engage with.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    Your response makes no sense. You don’t have to let a guild dictate your time.. you just find a guild that does what you wanna do around the time you wanna do it.. it’s literally that simple. There are tons of guilds everywhere running at all different times. You might have to spend some time trying to find them, but they exist.
    I should reword that I don't want to let a game dictate my time, I don't want to have a Raid schedule to stick to. That and I never really enjoyed progression raiding anyway. I always had the most fun when stuff was on farm and we could walk through the bosses, I play the game for gear and getting my character stronger, when I am not getting better gear I am not having fun. That and I liked when there was either 1 difficulty or activated Hardmodes, still feel Ulduar had raiding done perfectly.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    One could argue that the game isn't trying to force you to do anything, the community you choose to be a part of is pressuring you to. If you don't like that pressure, find a new community engage with.
    I don’t like being in a situation where the best (and sometimes only) way to progress my character is to do content that I ridiculously outgear in order to get power upgrades that are otherwise completely unavailable.

    No one wants to be permanently underpowered in this game - everyone wants to progress and be a positive contributor to their group. So if you don’t do your weekly warfront and farm your essences, which is all easy pointless content, you’re just going to be irreparably bad for the entire patch. I think that’s bad design.
    Last edited by Scrod; 2020-03-26 at 01:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    Since i know how mmo-champion works, no, i am not trying to be an asshole or show off, more of a rant.

    Its timewalking week, they fixed essence catchup, so why not level up that alt i left at 110 last year right? It takes a few hours for easy 2 Rank 3 essences + cloak, so why not play that Shaman afterall now.

    Which i leveled through quests because i couldnt be bothered with dungeons, i leveled every other char that way, just wanted to slow poke it at BoD burn out so a good 2 years without actually pugging anything.

    Big god damn mistake.

    Of course you people dont like the game if thats the level you are playing at actively.

    For every 1 "Decent" tank not even remotely good, just a tank that presses their mitigation button, there are 9 clueless, i dont even know what to describe them as, cause they aint tanks.

    For every 1 "decent dps", there are 49 "WHY ARE YOU EVEN ONLINE" "Do you have a keyboard?"

    This last few hours, did not classify as "Playing World of Warcraft", if i didnt know better and i returned to this mess , i would unsub instantly again, i would simply alt+f4 after the first dungeon and not return.

    Seriously, the game you are playing at the daily pug world, is not how World of Warcraft is meant to be played, for the love of god, get a guild, learn basic interrupts and more importantly, WASD.
    You should try pugging M+ and Arena.

  5. #125
    I accept the toxicity of pugging, because id rather deal with that, than have my enjoyment of the game dictated by a set weekly schedule of guild activities i have to plan around.

  6. #126
    Stood in the Fire
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    I will never understand why someone would rather do pugs all the time over getting a raiding guild.
    Because raid guilds are a major source of drama. Like a guild I was in, they brought me in for a progress fight and asked another person to sit out because they were underperforming.

    What did this result in? I was accused of sleeping with the guild master and that's why he replaced that guy with me.

    The reason I got loot? Sleeping with the guild master.

    The guild eventually crumbled because people were just going full retard over me, a woman, being invited to raids over them and getting loot.

    Another guild I tried to raid with I was constantly being hit on by the raid leader, I left before I became a member.

    Tried one last guild with friends but eventually left because they used epgp but still had some weird ass loot rules where your epgp didn't matter. Like, why even have it if it's not going to be used consistently?

    In pugs I don't have to deal with any of this.

  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Rendark View Post
    I will never understand why someone would rather do pugs all the time over getting a raiding guild.
    Getting a guild is a tough process.

    If you want to join a guild for organized content you are taking the game somewhat serious. And then the reality hits you like a truck because most guilds progress HC. If you care for the game you realize pretty fast that HC is not really a challenging game mode so what you gonna do next?

    The guild you find sucks, maybe step up to mythic raiden? Yeah sure..but wait. Wrong class, no necklvl no cape lvl no corruptions no ilvl no logs. You are basically instant declined everywhere.

    So unless you put hours upon hours into the game to fullfill the absolute absurd standards that a mythic raid team wants from you for thier 5 boss progress you are just stuck.

    HC is not challenging so you dont wanne be there. Mythic is no real option because you can't really take foot in there either.

    So you have to rely on the pugging world to kill at least the few hc bosses that are usefull for your progression or you finally make the emotional cut and abandon the shit show.

    With that background ( and i am pretty sure that so so soooo many players fall in that category) you rather pug and dont want to be there which causes drama, frustration, toxicity... idk getting tired of this lately aswell^^

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Kehego View Post
    k
    adapt or quit, but please please don't whine
    No. I will not do content I do not enjoy that has nothing to do with what I want to do. What kind of idiot would waste their free time doing things they don't enjoy? Fortunately I run with a group that generally doesn't care as long as we clear content, and we've been raiding together since WotLK (and most the rest of them since TBC), so we enjoy spending time with each other more than min maxing, but obviously a lot of people aren't as lucky as that.

  9. #129
    i pug all the time and have no problems. if you get a shit group you dont have to play with them anymore just find another.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    One could argue that the game isn't trying to force you to do anything, the community you choose to be a part of is pressuring you to. If you don't like that pressure, find a new community engage with.
    I hate this argument, honestly. It's the community people chose years ago, and the content they love doing. It's where their friends are. It was relatively unchanged for an OVERWHELMING amount of the game's lifespan.

    Blizzard suddenly changed their design philosophy to tie player power to timegated content (key point here) you have to spend 30-60 minutes a day to do in order to keep up. They then added mobile-level gacha mechanics to force you to play ungodly amounts of time for little-to-no rewards if you couldn't/didn't want to dedicate those simple 30-60 minutes a day (Islands for AP is an example).

    It's almost like them adding ilvl requirements to picking up the new content quest lines in newer patches. The casual "questing" community would be infuriated that they're expected to do harder PvE content to get access to something that didn't require that level of commitment before. Are we supposed to say "Well, if you don't like it - find another game"? No, because that would be an absurd thing to say when the game didn't function like that before, and has no reason to function like that now.

    People will stay subscribed because they enjoy PvE content and want to progress with their friends for titles/mounts/gear, just like people will stay subscribed because they enjoy pet battles and world quests. You don't need the "Engagement Metric" mechanics. The content is good enough.
    Last edited by Wheeler; 2020-03-31 at 08:07 AM.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by schwank05 View Post
    I should reword that I don't want to let a game dictate my time, I don't want to have a Raid schedule to stick to. That and I never really enjoyed progression raiding anyway. I always had the most fun when stuff was on farm and we could walk through the bosses, I play the game for gear and getting my character stronger, when I am not getting better gear I am not having fun. That and I liked when there was either 1 difficulty or activated Hardmodes, still feel Ulduar had raiding done perfectly.
    Ah, yes, that makes sense. You’re in kind of a weird spot then. A good portion of the raiding population enjoys jumping the hurdles (mechanics/progression) to get their upgrades.

    I get where you’re coming from. But honestly if the gear came any faster, we’d burn through the game at an absolutely ridiculous pace. There has to be a happy medium, certainly. I really, REALLY, enjoy the corruption system. I think it’s very neat, and I hope it sticks around, with some revision.

    In its current format it’s a step in the wrong direction towards the aforementioned happy medium.

  12. #132
    Warchief Advent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    I hate this argument, honestly. It's the community people chose years ago, and the content they love doing. It's where their friends are. It was relatively unchanged for an OVERWHELMING amount of the game's lifespan.

    Blizzard suddenly changed their design philosophy to tie player power to timegated content (key point here) you have to spend 30-60 minutes a day to do in order to keep up. They then added mobile-level gacha mechanics to force you to play ungodly amounts of time for little-to-no rewards if you couldn't/didn't want to dedicate those simple 30-60 minutes a day (Islands for AP is an example).
    There's always been something that people who raid had to do in order to stay relevant. It's probably more egregious now, but let's not be dishonest and conveniently forget that this has always been the case. Back when I raided (From TBC to WoD) I actively sought out guilds that didn't have those requirements, and it worked out fairly well. Hate the argument but you can't refute the fact that your play experience is largely in your own hands. Very few game genres are that open-ended imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    It's almost like them adding ilvl requirements to picking up the new content quest lines in newer patches. The casual "questing" community would be infuriated that they're expected to do harder PvE content to get access to something that didn't require that level of commitment before. Are we supposed to say "Well, if you don't like it - find another game"? No, because that would be an absurd thing to say when the game didn't function like that before, and has no reason to function like that now.
    Funny you say that. Blizzard has a tendency to create problems where there were none to begin with, and appear to be playing "catch up" with other MMOs like FF14. Which is an MMO that actually does things similar to this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    People will stay subscribed because they enjoy PvE content and want to progress with their friends for titles/mounts/gear, just like people will stay subscribed because they enjoy pet battles and world quests. You don't need the "Engagement Metric" mechanics. The content is good enough.
    Maybe they weren't needed before, maybe they are needed now. Who know There are, in fact, many players who enjoy always having something progression-oriented to do when they log in, even if it's something considered mundane to other people.

    Look, the game has always alienated some players, and this game is basically a revolving door. I understand your dislike, and I in retrospect, actually didn't like the game as much before MoP despite having played since TBC. You can't please all players all the time, but if we're being honest they can probably afford to upset people who raid more than anyone else, because they very likely represent the smallest portion of the game's players. I remember back in Cataclysm there was a lot of unrest over raiders feeling "forced" (And people seem to adore using that word) to do split runs. It was a problem that they had the power to stop, but didn't. Much like voting in the real world has the opportunity to create change, if enough people had put their foot down and decided to take an exodus from raiding guilds that pressured their players into doing split runs, or having a half dozen raid alts it might have been curbed. But that isn't what people did. I don't agree that games should try to save players from themselves because it removes any personal responsibility from our decisions.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    Ah, yes, that makes sense. You’re in kind of a weird spot then. A good portion of the raiding population enjoys jumping the hurdles (mechanics/progression) to get their upgrades.

    I get where you’re coming from. But honestly if the gear came any faster, we’d burn through the game at an absolutely ridiculous pace. There has to be a happy medium, certainly. I really, REALLY, enjoy the corruption system. I think it’s very neat, and I hope it sticks around, with some revision.

    In its current format it’s a step in the wrong direction towards the aforementioned happy medium.
    It is more I just want there to be an end in sight, I want to see a BIS piece of gear and which boss it drops from, then farm said boss until It drops and when I have the whole set of BIS I want to run the raid one more time to see how much different it was then when first stepping in the raid. Then I want to be done with that character until the nest patch or expac then I move to alts.

  14. #134
    Bloodsail Admiral Isilrien's Avatar
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    Not everyone who joins a PUG has issues with that mechanic at all. Some of us have issues with the game that fall entirely outside of this.

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