Page 14 of 20 FirstFirst ...
4
12
13
14
15
16
... LastLast
  1. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Yes, minority here, as in MMO-Champion. It's the only forum I see MoP get this praise, and even here its a "love it or hate it" expansion. It got rated 4th least favorite expansion here in one poll even while other polls have it on top 3. For an expansion that lost as many players as cata from launch to end can't really been seen as a great expansion. A good compared to wod and bfa, sure, but when the population rate it as good as cataclysm in the real metric aka subs, it's pretty bold to state that anyone is in minority when it comes to opinions.

    So you are right, me, kaminaris are in minority in this opinion on mmo-champion forums, but we all should be careful by saying anyone is in minority when numbers and facts outside of it tell another story. My evidence is that both my raiding guild died in MoP, my old guild had to merge with two other guilds to even survive. The drop out on my server was a disaster and it never seemed to get numbers up before Legion just to see the numbers drop again in BfA.

    I am not saying that MoP was horrible, and it seems to be more popular than BfA and WoD overall, but the praise of MoP is not universal.
    sub numbers are not a great indicator of quality,wrath had one of the bigest growths,and it was the most casual fest wow has ever been,bfa had record sales

  2. #262
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    sub numbers are not a great indicator of quality,wrath had one of the bigest growths,and it was the most casual fest wow has ever been,bfa had record sales
    Sales are not subs, and the BfA record sale was all sales started from pre-purchase long before we even knew what we could expect and we just had Legion, a top tier expansion so people was hyped.

    Though as far as metric goes, sub/sales are at least just as good as someones feelings on a forum that represent a very tiny amount of the player base(or that doesn't play as well). So that's really my point, WotLK was popular from a sub point of view as you say, but it only grew 0.5mill subs from launch while TBC gained 4million subs during the expansion. But so was Cata, that actually have the record number. First tier in Cata was actually very popular, but as people point out, 4.3 wasn't really good.

    Opinions are just that, opinions. To claim that people are in minority/majority is a very bold claim to make if you can't support it by a large group. A small group on a forum is not supportive on any claim. I can go and say that Legion was way more popular than WoD because the numbers supports that, Devs said in Q4(second quarter of Legion) that there were more activity(and active users) growing from quarter to quarter from Q3 which were Legion launch even, to quarter 4 compared to the last 4 years which included half of MoP as well. While MoP lost 2.5million subs in 6 months and WoD lost 5million in 9.

    So to say that MoP was so good according to the majority isn't really a true statement overall, only to users on MMO-Champion.
    Last edited by Doffen; 2020-03-24 at 07:02 AM.
    Horde bad, smash monkey. Who is a good monkey? You are!

    Let loot be loot.

  3. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by Clickbait Mick View Post
    Dragon Soul was a better raid than Nya'lotha.

    People have an irrational hateboner for Cataclysm, I swear. The expansion really wasn't that bad compared to WoD and BfA.
    FL was the best Cata raid hands down, I also really enjoyed revamped ZG. Cata brought my favorite thing to WoW: being able to run endgame raids 10M, pity the idea didn't last long enough. RIP in SoO.

  4. #264
    I think wrath likely had the worst latch patch... ruby sanctum was such a forgettable raid fight most people can't recall it unless you remind them.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Pebrocks The Warlock View Post
    Even worse! Idk why I always think DS has 9 bosses.
    The time you spend on RP and gauntlets alone accounts for a boss.

  6. #266
    Warchief Notshauna's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    2,065
    8.3 isn't good in a vacuum but when you consider BfA as a whole I actually think 8.3 is super promising. 8.3 is perhaps the patch that has done the best job of reacting to player feedback, with the new zones being designed in a manner that doesn't require daily grinding while avoiding excessive time gating and essences becoming far more accessible to alts due to player feedback. The biggest issue with WoW has always been how slow the team is to change things and when they do they usually go too far. Such as in Wrath they got criticism about how easy the dungeons were so in Cataclysm they made them massively more difficult, which led to complaints about them being too hard which led to MoPs incredibly easy dungeons.

    If WoW ever wants to be great again the team needs to be able to learn from player feedback and iterate faster, and 8.3 has done such a good job of this. I am honestly more optimistic about the future of WoW than I have been since early Cataclysm. If they keep this up into Shadowlands especially the Alpha and Beta WoW might again be worth maintaining a subscription on.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Drusin View Post
    ToC is my favorite raid <3 No trash, little (0) running to different bosses <3 All raids should be ToC
    EoE is the best raid then. 0 trash, 1 boss.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Sales are not subs, and the BfA record sale was all sales started from pre-purchase long before we even knew what we could expect and we just had Legion, a top tier expansion so people was hyped.

    Though as far as metric goes, sub/sales are at least just as good as someones feelings on a forum that represent a very tiny amount of the player base(or that doesn't play as well). So that's really my point, WotLK was popular from a sub point of view as you say, but it only grew 0.5mill subs from launch while TBC gained 4million subs during the expansion. But so was Cata, that actually have the record number. First tier in Cata was actually very popular, but as people point out, 4.3 wasn't really good.

    Opinions are just that, opinions. To claim that people are in minority/majority is a very bold claim to make if you can't support it by a large group. A small group on a forum is not supportive on any claim. I can go and say that Legion was way more popular than WoD because the numbers supports that, Devs said in Q4(second quarter of Legion) that there were more activity(and active users) growing from quarter to quarter from Q3 which were Legion launch even, to quarter 4 compared to the last 4 years which included half of MoP as well. While MoP lost 2.5million subs in 6 months and WoD lost 5million in 9.

    So to say that MoP was so good according to the majority isn't really a true statement overall, only to users on MMO-Champion.
    cata was a hot mess at launch lol,bugged 10 man raids or blizzard forgot to actualy tune for 10 man having same numbers as 25 in some cases,and heroics were dead on arival for most people,granted thats because wrath raised a bunch of carebears with free heroics,but thats what happens when you become the most popular casual mmo and all of a sudden go hard on those people

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Chromell View Post
    FL was the best Cata raid hands down, I also really enjoyed revamped ZG. Cata brought my favorite thing to WoW: being able to run endgame raids 10M, pity the idea didn't last long enough. RIP in SoO.
    they fucked up tuning in cata 10m and even in mop it wasnt close to fixed,even in soo,25m was far easier than 10 and was better loot wise,is the 20 man today REALLY so bad?also flex is simply awsome

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantombeard View Post
    The Biggest thing I hate about 8.3 is your alts are basically DOA.
    Have to earn essences =/= DoA. Ease up on the hyperbole.
    "Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer." Powerogue 2019

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Have to earn essences =/= DoA. Ease up on the hyperbole.
    I agree with him though, this is the expansion I have played my alts the least thanks to the new systems.

  11. #271
    Stood in the Fire Bildur's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Denmark but now Canada
    Posts
    447
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    The aggro changes and the guild levels and perks were Cata, not LK. LFG though, that was LK.
    Oh your right.
    Guild perks came with cata big time and really destroyed many smaller guilds.
    But I forgot to mention Item Level over Common Sense and Skills also came with WotlK (Mages with Agility trinkets to boost their item level).
    Aggro change ... yeah somewhere between WotlK and Cata. Although as I remember it: stopping marking/trapping/sheeping etc. trash mobs and carefully pulling in favor of go-go-go AoE frenzy, whilst blaming the tank for not holding aggro instead of the major fireball for stealing it, started in WotlK .... but I may be wrong

  12. #272
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    I guess you are a part of minority because looking at reality, mop was just average at best.
    I think you really need to justify this with more than your subjective impression.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    WoW is like 99% bear ass collection simulator -- D-Rock

  13. #273
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    WORST country on earth (aka egypt)
    Posts
    7,358
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    If Blizz came out with an 8.3.5 that had a filler raid of some kind, would you consider it part of Shadowlands not BFA? Cause that's what you're doing.
    whatever they decide to count they do, it is their word
    they counted selfie patch as a full patch, even if blizz own employees for a while weren't even sure to call it a patch or not in first place
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  14. #274
    Its definitely in the top 2 worst, right there with dragon soul.
    BfA = second worst product ever made by Blizzard.
    War3 Reforged took the title for worst product.

  15. #275
    its hard to know wich one is worse 8.3 or dragon soul both are contenders for the worst one.

  16. #276
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    I think you really need to justify this with more than your subjective impression.
    It's very simple, mop was still the old expansion, not the modern one with M+ era. People complained even more than now about tons of stuff.
    Almost none of the system it introduced stayed in game aside from battle pets talents and flex raids.

    Challenge system -> turned into M+
    forging -> corruption -> gone? (probably some other system)
    Bloated class design -> gone
    Scenarios -> gone (technically iterated to horrific visions then to torghast but they are far from original concept)
    Vengeance -> Resolve -> gone
    Basline pvp resilience -> gone



    And funny enough BfA looks like a first expansion in a long time that retained roughly the same amount of users. But since it's current, people complain.
    However I did not see any shitstorms of the magnitude I've seen in MoP and legion (and wod). Like camera changes or legiondaries or having broken classes simply because blizzard reacts faster now.
    They finally stopped waiting for shit to unfold and start implementing big changes mid patch.

    And no, those little shitstorms you see on forums are just tiny compared to past issues.

  17. #277
    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    It's very simple, mop was still the old expansion, not the modern one with M+ era. People complained even more than now about tons of stuff.
    […]
    And funny enough BfA looks like a first expansion in a long time that retained roughly the same amount of users. But since it's current, people complain..
    I disagree with much of what you wrote here.

    More complaints? More people were PLAYING, so even if the percentage unhappy were lower you might have seen more complaints. The traffic through the official WoW forums is way down from MoP.

    And BfA retaining the same amount of users? What? Raid participation is down by 2.5x from the first tier! WoW overall may have done better, at least for a while, but that was because of Classic, not BfA.

    So, no, I think you're rationalizing your own subjective opinion here.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "Almost every time I have gotten to know a critic personally, they keep up with the criticism but lose the venom." -- Ghostcrawler
    WoW is like 99% bear ass collection simulator -- D-Rock

  18. #278
    Quote Originally Posted by Chromell View Post
    EoE is the best raid then. 0 trash, 1 boss.
    Nah I just want no trash, it can have 50 bosses
    My Collection
    - Bring back my damn zoom distance/MoP Portals - I read OP minimum, 1st page maximum-make wow alt friendly again -Please post constructively(topkek) -Kill yourself -updated 3/7/2020

  19. #279
    People who say 8.3 and dragon soul are the worst, have you guys really forgotten about the selfie patch?

  20. #280
    Mechagnome
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    715
    Quote Originally Posted by Bildur View Post
    Oh your right.
    Guild perks came with cata big time and really destroyed many smaller guilds.
    But I forgot to mention Item Level over Common Sense and Skills also came with WotlK (Mages with Agility trinkets to boost their item level).
    Aggro change ... yeah somewhere between WotlK and Cata. Although as I remember it: stopping marking/trapping/sheeping etc. trash mobs and carefully pulling in favor of go-go-go AoE frenzy, whilst blaming the tank for not holding aggro instead of the major fireball for stealing it, started in WotlK .... but I may be wrong
    Kinda? Early in LK some of the heroics were still hard (but almost none were 'mark everything for CC' hard - there was that one pull in Azjol-Nerub and that was it), but gear scaled up in LK much faster than in BC, so they became easy pretty quickly. Most people just shrugged when they ripped aggro, as by the time you could do that (except on the pull before the tank had gotten any threat) melee could tank most trash anyway. If clothies managed to rip aggro and were too slow with their panic buttons, tough shit.

    However, the real problem came with the Dungeon Finder in 3.3.0 (the Icecrown Citadel patch) and people thus being pulled from many different servers. Nothing like not knowing the people you're with and knowing that you'll probably never see them again to bring out the raging inner arsehole in people who are that way inclined. This was when you got the "Gogogogogogo!" people, including ones who thought you could do that to the new Icecrown 5-mans on heroic. That was 'fun'.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    It's very simple, mop was still the old expansion, not the modern one with M+ era. People complained even more than now about tons of stuff.
    Almost none of the system it introduced stayed in game aside from battle pets talents and flex raids.


    Bloated class design -> gone
    Vengeance -> Resolve -> gone
    Basline pvp resilience -> gone
    These elements pre-date MoP, so saying that MoP was bad because it introduced them and then they were removed is simply BS. Vengeance is from Cata. 'Bloated' classes likewise. PvP Resilience is from BC.
    And funny enough BfA looks like a first expansion in a long time that retained roughly the same amount of users.
    Really there's no way of knowing. Also, aside from the inital peak and loss of that surge, MoP was very stable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    More complaints? More people were PLAYING, so even if the percentage unhappy were lower you might have seen more complaints. The traffic through the official WoW forums is way down from MoP.
    Aside from fewer people playing, the current version of the official forums is incredibly crappy. It's not surprising that nobody uses it, which is as Blizzard wants - no feedback = nothing to fix.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •