8.3; Worst Final Patch ever created?

[deenman]

There's a fully progressed/developed MoP private server where devs literally decided to skip WoD entirely and jump straight to developing Legion. They even made a poll where players got to vote on the matter and needless to say: Only ~11% of voters wanted WoD while the rest 89% voted jump straight to the Legion option.

That's already says a lot about that "expansion" when even freeload pserver players don't wanna touch that garbage... and rightfully so.

Heck, even goddamn Cata servers which is one of worst expansions in my opinion are pretty populated till Dragon Soul/End of Firelands progression(but they die right after cuz no one wants to waste their time on DS).

I dont get the point of this response,what does it have to do with mop?

[kaminaris]

well,thats your opinion,and you are part of a very tiny minority

I guess you are a part of minority because looking at reality, mop was just average at best.

[deenman]

I guess you are a part of minority because looking at reality, mop was just average at best.

like i said,im not saying mop was AMAZING,it just was better than most expansions

[kaminaris]

like i said,im not saying mop was AMAZING,it just was better than most expansions

Actually the only expansion MoP was better than is WoD and maybe TBC/Vanilla.

[Varitok]

I guess you are a part of minority because looking at reality, mop was just average at best.

MoP was the last expansion that added and iterated on gameplay. From that moment on we got massive pruning, feature removal and insane grinds.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually the only expansion MoP was better than is WoD and maybe TBC/Vanilla.

By what metric?

[kaminaris]

MoP was the last expansion that added and iterated on gameplay. From that moment on we got massive pruning, feature removal and insane grinds.

- - - Updated - - -



By what metric?

You don't get it do you? Issues in MoP triggered pruning because it was a mess. Tons of unused skills, massive class imbalance, impossible to tune pvp, vengeance mechanic and that is just a beginning.

[Jinpachi]

Is this the worst final patch of all time? 3.3, 5.4 and 7.3 were so much better it's not even funny.

Even Dragon Soul wasn't this bad, nor was Hellfire. At least their raids were amazing.

Any water-based content is 100% trash. I dug the pirate theme of the beginning of the xpac, but the game is just shit now. They're shoving the lovecraft lore down our throats like it's a good thing. Sick of seeing elephant men from underwater every third expansion.

[deenman]

Actually the only expansion MoP was better than is WoD and maybe TBC/Vanilla.

vanila doesnt count,also wow,amazing how different we are if tbc is the worst for you as for me its a clear best

[Varitok]

You don't get it do you? Issues in MoP triggered pruning because it was a mess. Tons of unused skills, massive class imbalance, impossible to tune pvp, vengeance mechanic and that is just a beginning.

Yet here we are going "Lets unprune!" as a feature for this upcoming expansion so your point goes out the window a bit. PvP has been a non thought since we were fighting over sand in Silithus, It has never been truly tuned. Vengeance does not ruin a whole expansion.

Also, on a broader note for gaming at large. Balance is overrated.

[Cleansing Totem]

like i said,im not saying mop was AMAZING,it just was better than most expansions

Mop was amazing. Best raids imo.

[deenman]

Mop was amazing. Best raids imo.

yeah,but raids isnt rly the best way to judge an expansion,raids have been good for a long time now,even wod had one of the best raids ever

[kaminaris]

Yet here we are going "Lets unprune!" as a feature for this upcoming expansion so your point goes out the window a bit. PvP has been a non thought since we were fighting over sand in Silithus, It has never been truly tuned. Vengeance does not ruin a whole expansion.

Also, on a broader note for gaming at large. Balance is overrated.

No, its more like "lets unprune just a little". And it actually further proves my point. None of the spells they are bringing back were broken. Blizzard is very cautions what they bring back because they remember what happened back then.

And I am not even talking about numerical balance, I am talking about combination of broken spells/passives/mechanics that made such shit. Not pure numbers.
For example warlock soulswap was not broken by itself, but a combination of on use high stat trinkets, snapshotting and couple of permanent/long living targets made it broken.

[Ielenia]

No, it was the worst expansion back then and it didn't really change since then. It was mediocre in all of the aspects... until WoD came.

You're welcome to your opinion, but I hope you at least recognize you're in the minority here, since, according to many, many polls here on MMO-C, the majority of people rank MoP within the top 3 of their lists.

I honestly enjoyed MoP classes, and no, I didn't play a warlock back then, and I never did.

- - - Updated - - -

I guess you are a part of minority because looking at reality, mop was just average at best.

You don't seem to know what "reality" and "minority" is.

Most people rank it as a good expansion. Very few rank it as a bad expansion.

- - - Updated - - -

Sick of seeing elephant men from underwater every third expansion.

"Elephant men"...?

[Doffen]

You're welcome to your opinion, but I hope you at least recognize you're in the minority here
Most people rank it as a good expansion. Very few rank it as a bad expansion.

Yes, minority here, as in MMO-Champion. It's the only forum I see MoP get this praise, and even here its a "love it or hate it" expansion. It got rated 4th least favorite expansion here in one poll even while other polls have it on top 3. For an expansion that lost as many players as cata from launch to end can't really been seen as a great expansion. A good compared to wod and bfa, sure, but when the population rate it as good as cataclysm in the real metric aka subs, it's pretty bold to state that anyone is in minority when it comes to opinions.

So you are right, me, kaminaris are in minority in this opinion on mmo-champion forums, but we all should be careful by saying anyone is in minority when numbers and facts outside of it tell another story. My evidence is that both my raiding guild died in MoP, my old guild had to merge with two other guilds to even survive. The drop out on my server was a disaster and it never seemed to get numbers up before Legion just to see the numbers drop again in BfA.

I am not saying that MoP was horrible, and it seems to be more popular than BfA and WoD overall, but the praise of MoP is not universal.

[deenman]

Yes, minority here, as in MMO-Champion. It's the only forum I see MoP get this praise, and even here its a "love it or hate it" expansion. It got rated 4th least favorite expansion here in one poll even while other polls have it on top 3. For an expansion that lost as many players as cata from launch to end can't really been seen as a great expansion. A good compared to wod and bfa, sure, but when the population rate it as good as cataclysm in the real metric aka subs, it's pretty bold to state that anyone is in minority when it comes to opinions.

So you are right, me, kaminaris are in minority in this opinion on mmo-champion forums, but we all should be careful by saying anyone is in minority when numbers and facts outside of it tell another story. My evidence is that both my raiding guild died in MoP, my old guild had to merge with two other guilds to even survive. The drop out on my server was a disaster and it never seemed to get numbers up before Legion just to see the numbers drop again in BfA.

I am not saying that MoP was horrible, and it seems to be more popular than BfA and WoD overall, but the praise of MoP is not universal.

sub numbers are not a great indicator of quality,wrath had one of the bigest growths,and it was the most casual fest wow has ever been,bfa had record sales

[Doffen]

sub numbers are not a great indicator of quality,wrath had one of the bigest growths,and it was the most casual fest wow has ever been,bfa had record sales

Sales are not subs, and the BfA record sale was all sales started from pre-purchase long before we even knew what we could expect and we just had Legion, a top tier expansion so people was hyped.

Though as far as metric goes, sub/sales are at least just as good as someones feelings on a forum that represent a very tiny amount of the player base(or that doesn't play as well). So that's really my point, WotLK was popular from a sub point of view as you say, but it only grew 0.5mill subs from launch while TBC gained 4million subs during the expansion. But so was Cata, that actually have the record number. First tier in Cata was actually very popular, but as people point out, 4.3 wasn't really good.

Opinions are just that, opinions. To claim that people are in minority/majority is a very bold claim to make if you can't support it by a large group. A small group on a forum is not supportive on any claim. I can go and say that Legion was way more popular than WoD because the numbers supports that, Devs said in Q4(second quarter of Legion) that there were more activity(and active users) growing from quarter to quarter from Q3 which were Legion launch even, to quarter 4 compared to the last 4 years which included half of MoP as well. While MoP lost 2.5million subs in 6 months and WoD lost 5million in 9.

So to say that MoP was so good according to the majority isn't really a true statement overall, only to users on MMO-Champion.

[Chromell]

Dragon Soul was a better raid than Nya'lotha.

People have an irrational hateboner for Cataclysm, I swear. The expansion really wasn't that bad compared to WoD and BfA.

FL was the best Cata raid hands down, I also really enjoyed revamped ZG. Cata brought my favorite thing to WoW: being able to run endgame raids 10M, pity the idea didn't last long enough. RIP in SoO.

[Rogue Karl]

I think wrath likely had the worst latch patch... ruby sanctum was such a forgettable raid fight most people can't recall it unless you remind them.

[Chromell]

Even worse! Idk why I always think DS has 9 bosses.

The time you spend on RP and gauntlets alone accounts for a boss.

[Notshauna]

8.3 isn't good in a vacuum but when you consider BfA as a whole I actually think 8.3 is super promising. 8.3 is perhaps the patch that has done the best job of reacting to player feedback, with the new zones being designed in a manner that doesn't require daily grinding while avoiding excessive time gating and essences becoming far more accessible to alts due to player feedback. The biggest issue with WoW has always been how slow the team is to change things and when they do they usually go too far. Such as in Wrath they got criticism about how easy the dungeons were so in Cataclysm they made them massively more difficult, which led to complaints about them being too hard which led to MoPs incredibly easy dungeons.

If WoW ever wants to be great again the team needs to be able to learn from player feedback and iterate faster, and 8.3 has done such a good job of this. I am honestly more optimistic about the future of WoW than I have been since early Cataclysm. If they keep this up into Shadowlands especially the Alpha and Beta WoW might again be worth maintaining a subscription on.