8.3; Worst Final Patch ever created?

[Chromell]

ToC is my favorite raid <3 No trash, little (0) running to different bosses <3 All raids should be ToC

EoE is the best raid then. 0 trash, 1 boss.

[deenman]

Sales are not subs, and the BfA record sale was all sales started from pre-purchase long before we even knew what we could expect and we just had Legion, a top tier expansion so people was hyped.

Though as far as metric goes, sub/sales are at least just as good as someones feelings on a forum that represent a very tiny amount of the player base(or that doesn't play as well). So that's really my point, WotLK was popular from a sub point of view as you say, but it only grew 0.5mill subs from launch while TBC gained 4million subs during the expansion. But so was Cata, that actually have the record number. First tier in Cata was actually very popular, but as people point out, 4.3 wasn't really good.

Opinions are just that, opinions. To claim that people are in minority/majority is a very bold claim to make if you can't support it by a large group. A small group on a forum is not supportive on any claim. I can go and say that Legion was way more popular than WoD because the numbers supports that, Devs said in Q4(second quarter of Legion) that there were more activity(and active users) growing from quarter to quarter from Q3 which were Legion launch even, to quarter 4 compared to the last 4 years which included half of MoP as well. While MoP lost 2.5million subs in 6 months and WoD lost 5million in 9.

So to say that MoP was so good according to the majority isn't really a true statement overall, only to users on MMO-Champion.

cata was a hot mess at launch lol,bugged 10 man raids or blizzard forgot to actualy tune for 10 man having same numbers as 25 in some cases,and heroics were dead on arival for most people,granted thats because wrath raised a bunch of carebears with free heroics,but thats what happens when you become the most popular casual mmo and all of a sudden go hard on those people

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FL was the best Cata raid hands down, I also really enjoyed revamped ZG. Cata brought my favorite thing to WoW: being able to run endgame raids 10M, pity the idea didn't last long enough. RIP in SoO.

they fucked up tuning in cata 10m and even in mop it wasnt close to fixed,even in soo,25m was far easier than 10 and was better loot wise,is the 20 man today REALLY so bad?also flex is simply awsome

[cparle87]

The Biggest thing I hate about 8.3 is your alts are basically DOA.

Have to earn essences =/= DoA. Ease up on the hyperbole.

[Bildur]

The aggro changes and the guild levels and perks were Cata, not LK. LFG though, that was LK.

Oh your right.
Guild perks came with cata big time and really destroyed many smaller guilds.
But I forgot to mention Item Level over Common Sense and Skills also came with WotlK (Mages with Agility trinkets to boost their item level).
Aggro change ... yeah somewhere between WotlK and Cata. Although as I remember it: stopping marking/trapping/sheeping etc. trash mobs and carefully pulling in favor of go-go-go AoE frenzy, whilst blaming the tank for not holding aggro instead of the major fireball for stealing it, started in WotlK .... but I may be wrong

[Osmeric]

I guess you are a part of minority because looking at reality, mop was just average at best.

I think you really need to justify this with more than your subjective impression.

[sam86]

If Blizz came out with an 8.3.5 that had a filler raid of some kind, would you consider it part of Shadowlands not BFA? Cause that's what you're doing.

whatever they decide to count they do, it is their word
they counted selfie patch as a full patch, even if blizz own employees for a while weren't even sure to call it a patch or not in first place

[Aleksej89]

Its definitely in the top 2 worst, right there with dragon soul.

[keldarepewpew]

its hard to know wich one is worse 8.3 or dragon soul both are contenders for the worst one.

[kaminaris]

I think you really need to justify this with more than your subjective impression.

It's very simple, mop was still the old expansion, not the modern one with M+ era. People complained even more than now about tons of stuff.
Almost none of the system it introduced stayed in game aside from battle pets talents and flex raids.

Challenge system -> turned into M+
forging -> corruption -> gone? (probably some other system)
Bloated class design -> gone
Scenarios -> gone (technically iterated to horrific visions then to torghast but they are far from original concept)
Vengeance -> Resolve -> gone
Basline pvp resilience -> gone



And funny enough BfA looks like a first expansion in a long time that retained roughly the same amount of users. But since it's current, people complain.
However I did not see any shitstorms of the magnitude I've seen in MoP and legion (and wod). Like camera changes or legiondaries or having broken classes simply because blizzard reacts faster now.
They finally stopped waiting for shit to unfold and start implementing big changes mid patch.

And no, those little shitstorms you see on forums are just tiny compared to past issues.

[Osmeric]

It's very simple, mop was still the old expansion, not the modern one with M+ era. People complained even more than now about tons of stuff.
[…]
And funny enough BfA looks like a first expansion in a long time that retained roughly the same amount of users. But since it's current, people complain..

I disagree with much of what you wrote here.

More complaints? More people were PLAYING, so even if the percentage unhappy were lower you might have seen more complaints. The traffic through the official WoW forums is way down from MoP.

And BfA retaining the same amount of users? What? Raid participation is down by 2.5x from the first tier! WoW overall may have done better, at least for a while, but that was because of Classic, not BfA.

So, no, I think you're rationalizing your own subjective opinion here.

[Drusin]

EoE is the best raid then. 0 trash, 1 boss.

Nah I just want no trash, it can have 50 bosses

[lockybalboa]

People who say 8.3 and dragon soul are the worst, have you guys really forgotten about the selfie patch?

[Kalisandra]

Oh your right.
Guild perks came with cata big time and really destroyed many smaller guilds.
But I forgot to mention Item Level over Common Sense and Skills also came with WotlK (Mages with Agility trinkets to boost their item level).
Aggro change ... yeah somewhere between WotlK and Cata. Although as I remember it: stopping marking/trapping/sheeping etc. trash mobs and carefully pulling in favor of go-go-go AoE frenzy, whilst blaming the tank for not holding aggro instead of the major fireball for stealing it, started in WotlK .... but I may be wrong

Kinda? Early in LK some of the heroics were still hard (but almost none were 'mark everything for CC' hard - there was that one pull in Azjol-Nerub and that was it), but gear scaled up in LK much faster than in BC, so they became easy pretty quickly. Most people just shrugged when they ripped aggro, as by the time you could do that (except on the pull before the tank had gotten any threat) melee could tank most trash anyway. If clothies managed to rip aggro and were too slow with their panic buttons, tough shit.

However, the real problem came with the Dungeon Finder in 3.3.0 (the Icecrown Citadel patch) and people thus being pulled from many different servers. Nothing like not knowing the people you're with and knowing that you'll probably never see them again to bring out the raging inner arsehole in people who are that way inclined. This was when you got the "Gogogogogogo!" people, including ones who thought you could do that to the new Icecrown 5-mans on heroic. That was 'fun'.

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It's very simple, mop was still the old expansion, not the modern one with M+ era. People complained even more than now about tons of stuff.
Almost none of the system it introduced stayed in game aside from battle pets talents and flex raids.


Bloated class design -> gone
Vengeance -> Resolve -> gone
Basline pvp resilience -> gone

These elements pre-date MoP, so saying that MoP was bad because it introduced them and then they were removed is simply BS. Vengeance is from Cata. 'Bloated' classes likewise. PvP Resilience is from BC.

And funny enough BfA looks like a first expansion in a long time that retained roughly the same amount of users.

Really there's no way of knowing. Also, aside from the inital peak and loss of that surge, MoP was very stable.

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More complaints? More people were PLAYING, so even if the percentage unhappy were lower you might have seen more complaints. The traffic through the official WoW forums is way down from MoP.

Aside from fewer people playing, the current version of the official forums is incredibly crappy. It's not surprising that nobody uses it, which is as Blizzard wants - no feedback = nothing to fix.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

No doubt that both Cata and WoD's final patches were unquestionably worse than anything any other expansion produced, simply because they signaled the door closing on all of the promised content that didn't make it into those expansions.

But honestly, 8.3 has been extremely fun so I'd probably say its one of the best.
Its hard to say for sure, because most patches had one more minor patch coming, but this one appears to not have that so we will see.

[Alexeht]

nothing ever be worse than WoD

[Dch48]

No it's not. It's fine. The worst final patch in WoW's history was the one that added the Sunwell raid in BC. That broke so many guilds backs and caused me to unsub for the only time in my 15 years of playing. Less than 2% of players ever completed that raid while it was current content. That's unacceptable.

[Ielenia]

Yes, minority here, as in MMO-Champion. It's the only forum I see MoP get this praise,

Okay. Can you show me other forums in which MoP is overall considered a bad expansion, then, please?

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Yes... /10char

[Beatman]

It's not the patch itself but the systems around it that are trash.

[Kralljin]

No it's not. It's fine. The worst final patch in WoW's history was the one that added the Sunwell raid in BC. That broke so many guilds backs and caused me to unsub for the only time in my 15 years of playing. Less than 2% of players ever completed that raid while it was current content. That's unacceptable.

I don't think a lot of people entered SWP to begin with, as TBC still had "ladder" approach towards patches, it's not like a lot of guilds just stopped their T5 / T6 progression to work on SWP.

Like, SWP is the Naxx of TBC, except less unique art.

Okay. Can you show me other forums in which MoP is overall considered a bad expansion, then, please?

If you're taking private servers as measurement of "expansion quality", then there aren't a lot (in the sense that private servers for MoP exist).
Like, most people that i've talked who dislike MoP generally prefer WoW's design of Vanilla / TBC era and thus dislike MoP by default or people that were not a big fan of MoP's theme.

And i quite frankly think that in the broad scheme of things, the latter is getting underestimated by people, there must be a reason why WoW surged by 2,5M subs with WoD release, whereas the MoP resurgence only had ~1M (though both ended up having ~10M total subs).
Like, the promotion material of WoD (Lords of War series for example) was pretty brutal by comparison, they really tried to move away from the serene / silly style of MoP.

Not saying that they are "correct", but you get the idea, MoP was in terms of theme and (art)style a big deviation from WoW's regular pattern.