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  1. #21
    No. Azshara had her greatness already - Queen of the Empire. She threw it in the trash.

    Now, other greatness awaits her. She will seek Sargeras once more - to free him from the Seat of the Pantheon.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Illidan never tried to literally conquer the world and plunge it back into the Black Empire days.
    Illidan did conquer the world; that world being Outland, and he sure didn't do anything to make life better for its inhabitants once he was in charge.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by skulmar View Post
    That seems odd to me. The overlap between lore characters who are powerful druids and those who have golden eyes is, iirc, zero.

    Likewise, why did empowering the Sunwell with Naaru energy cause the blood elves eyes to turn gold? And Xera doesn’t really seem to be talking about druidic potential in the quoted dialogue.



    Didn’t seem to stop her from trying to convert Illidan, the half-demon who had sworn fealty to both Sargaras and Kiljaden and consumed the skull og Gul-dan. Keep in mind that she was specifically looking for “the child of light and shadow”.
    Bro, look at WC2. Light infused beings have had golden eyes for a long time. It has nothing to do with why night elves have gold eyes. You're confusing two unrelated things.
    "Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer." Powerogue 2019

  4. #24
    The Lightbringer chrisisvacant's Avatar
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    Would you not say she has accomplished great things already?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by skulmar View Post
    Illidan did conquer the world; that world being Outland, and he sure didn't do anything to make life better for its inhabitants once he was in charge.
    Outland wasn't a world, it was a wretched shithole torn asunder by Ner'zhul. Also he planned to use Outland as his staging ground to tear apart the Legion, unlike Azshara who just wanted to rule Azeroth to satisfy her massive ego.

    Plus technically these scenarios are very different. Back in TBC we knew NOTHING of what Illidan planned to do, we never saw things from his perspective. Whereas in BfA we indeed saw what Azshara planned to do, we were given intel into her real intentions, and those weren't anything good. Remember Warbringers? Azshara is such a psycho that she literally blackmailed a god because she wants to rule his empire at his side.

    Quote Originally Posted by Minikin View Post
    Now youve done it. You just wait till a certain windrunner becomes the new kerrigan.
    Listen, if Sylvanas becomes Kerrigan 2.0, I'll take the L and stfu. But at the same time, I very much doubt that will happen because Blizzard has set up the exact opposite for her. Plus after the whole fiasco with Grommash, they might be more cautious about redeeming mass murderers. It can be done, but you need a lot of time to set that shit up, and with Sylvanas they've been repeating since Cataclysm that she's becoming just as evil as the Lich King. They've set up a negative character arc for her, not a redemption arc.

    To be honest, the only argument you can use to prove she'll be redeemed is that she's popular, which is a meta reason. But that's a weak argument, because Arthas was the most popular character in the franchise and they killed him early on in WoW's history.

    I don't have a problem with a villain redeeming themselves. Kerrigan is my favourite SC character and she's the textbook example of a villain redeeming themselves. But at the same time, they've literally done nothing to show that either Sylvanas or Azshara are willing to atone for their sins, and so any redemption arc for either of them would just be forced and absurd.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-03-24 at 07:59 AM.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by cparle87 View Post
    Bro, look at WC2. Light infused beings have had golden eyes for a long time. It has nothing to do with why night elves have gold eyes. You're confusing two unrelated things.
    Agreed. Light infused beings have had golden eyes since WC2, and I wouldn't have thought the two were connected until Xera told Illidan: "From birth, the light in your eyes held such promise for the future," which strongly implies to me that they are.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    Or like, that was actually the story they intended to write from the beginning? Shocker ikr?

    OT: Don't think he will be the chosen one but she is definetely showing up in a few expansions to be our next Illidan/Bolvar (a.k.a anti-hero who plays it cool and leads us into a new dangerous place) which is totally fine by me.
    Maybe but the pissed off a lot of people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Outland wasn't a world, it was a wretched shithole torn asunder by Ner'zhul. Also he planned to use Outland as his staging ground to tear apart the Legion, unlike Azshara who just wanted to rule Azeroth to satisfy her massive ego.

    Plus technically these scenarios are very different. Back in TBC we knew NOTHING of what Illidan planned to do, we never saw things from his perspective. Whereas in BfA we indeed saw what Azshara planned to do, we were given intel into her real intentions, and those weren't anything good. Remember Warbringers? Azshara is such a psycho that she literally blackmailed a god because she wants to rule his empire at his side.
    they had to add and retcon some things to make Illidan redeemable.


    Listen, if Sylvanas becomes Kerrigan 2.0, I'll take the L and stfu. But at the same time, I very much doubt that will happen because Blizzard has set up the exact opposite for her. Plus after the whole fiasco with Grommash, they might be more cautious about redeeming mass murderers. It can be done, but you need a lot of time to set that shit up, and with Sylvanas they've been repeating since Cataclysm that she's becoming just as evil as the Lich King. They've set up a negative character arc for her, not a redemption arc.

    To be honest, the only argument you can use to prove she'll be redeemed is that she's popular, which is a meta reason. But that's a weak argument, because Arthas was the most popular character in the franchise and they killed him early on in WoW's history.

    I don't have a problem with a villain redeeming themselves. Kerrigan is my favourite SC character and she's the textbook example of a villain redeeming themselves. But at the same time, they've literally done nothing to show that either Sylvanas or Azshara are willing to atone for their sins, and so any redemption arc for either of them would just be forced and absurd.
    LoL she will definitely be redeemed.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by skulmar View Post
    Agreed. Light infused beings have had golden eyes since WC2, and I wouldn't have thought the two were connected until Xera told Illidan: "From birth, the light in your eyes held such promise for the future," which strongly implies to me that they are.
    Like I'm saying. Light beings having gold eyes have nothing to do with why night elves can have gold eyes.
    "Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer." Powerogue 2019

  9. #29
    The Lightbringer Minikin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Outland wasn't a world, it was a wretched shithole torn asunder by Ner'zhul. Also he planned to use Outland as his staging ground to tear apart the Legion, unlike Azshara who just wanted to rule Azeroth to satisfy her massive ego.

    Plus technically these scenarios are very different. Back in TBC we knew NOTHING of what Illidan planned to do, we never saw things from his perspective. Whereas in BfA we indeed saw what Azshara planned to do, we were given intel into her real intentions, and those weren't anything good. Remember Warbringers? Azshara is such a psycho that she literally blackmailed a god because she wants to rule his empire at his side.



    Listen, if Sylvanas becomes Kerrigan 2.0, I'll take the L and stfu. But at the same time, I very much doubt that will happen because Blizzard has set up the exact opposite for her. Plus after the whole fiasco with Grommash, they might be more cautious about redeeming mass murderers. It can be done, but you need a lot of time to set that shit up, and with Sylvanas they've been repeating since Cataclysm that she's becoming just as evil as the Lich King. They've set up a negative character arc for her, not a redemption arc.

    To be honest, the only argument you can use to prove she'll be redeemed is that she's popular, which is a meta reason. But that's a weak argument, because Arthas was the most popular character in the franchise and they killed him early on in WoW's history.

    I don't have a problem with a villain redeeming themselves. Kerrigan is my favourite SC character and she's the textbook example of a villain redeeming themselves. But at the same time, they've literally done nothing to show that either Sylvanas or Azshara are willing to atone for their sins, and so any redemption arc for either of them would just be forced and absurd.
    all i know is that they change their story direction stupid fast. they said sylvanas wont go the way of Garrosh and they have pretty much decimated her in nearly the same way. BfA had absolutely no real conclusion to almost anything.
    1. the war: sylvanas is still out there. the horde now has a council and again like MoP there was an end cinematic of "dont do it again ok! or else! next time!"
    2. the void: even with nzoths defeat the lore dudes are like "errr dont just assume hes defeated ok! there is a lesson here!"

    im fine with villains redeeming themselves but how do you come back from setting fire to a city and then feeding your own army to increase your power?
    Blood Elves were based on a STRONG request from a poll of Asian players where many remarked on the Horde side that they and their girlfriends wanted a non-creepy femme race to play (Source)

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by skulmar View Post
    Then, in Nyalotha, Azshara tells us "I tire of intermediaries and heralds. The true throne of power beckons, and I intend to claim it."
    This is just saying she gonna try and spread her tentacles for the Void Lords.

    Well more likely she's gonna try and overthrow them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisisvacant View Post
    Would you not say she has accomplished great things already?
    Not really. The Night Elf Empire existed before her, then when she came to power she plunged it into civil war and destroyed it. She was only saved by divine intervention and when she tried to betray her saviour she was captured. Shes powerful but shes hardly successful.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by skulmar View Post
    We are told that Illidan's golden eyes marked him as special; as every night elf with golden eyes, most notably Queen Azshara, had gone on to accomplish great things.

    Likewise, we know that those who have a close connection to the Naaru often have golden eyes, including Turalyon and the Lightforged.

    On Argus, we hear the following exchange:

    Xe'ra: Turalyon. You have found the Chosen One.
    Xe'ra: Illidan. From birth, the light in your eyes held such promise for the future.
    Illidan's mind flashes back to the War of the Ancients, during which Sargeras burned out his eyes and replaced them with demonic ones.
    Illidan Stormrage: I sacrificed that birthright long ago.


    Then, in Nyalotha, Azshara tells us "I tire of intermediaries and heralds. The true throne of power beckons, and I intend to claim it."


    This has me thinking, is it possible that like Illidan, Azshara was marked from birth by the light? And if so, when Blizzard gets around the inevitable Light vs. Void expansion, might not Azshara have claimed the role of the Chosen One that Illidan turned away from?

    Thoughts?
    I must say that would be totally unexpected. And I think, a lot more hardcore players would be okay with Azshara becoming the chosen one, because they don't care for her as much as they do say Illidan.

    They were so annoyed at Illidan becoming the chosen one.. and I blame entirely teh early lleak on the novel, in MMO-C that ruinedthat plot.. too many people read the main points WITHOUT the context, and alreadymade up their midn they didn't like it. Despite the entire book writeten to properly explainwhat was truly remarkable about illidan in a positive (if you could call it that) way.

    Azshara transitioning from greatest ruler, to geratest villain, to chosen one would be interesting to say the least, beucase everyone expects her to either die sooon, or die later, and think they know her well, despite very little been said about her character, and her history demanding that there is more to her than meets the eye.

    But when you don't care about her or night elves, you don't tend to pay much attention. Like most guys do, you make fast conclusions, and move on. Which is why you are surprised when something different is done with those characters.
    Last edited by ravenmoon; 2020-03-25 at 02:08 AM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    Not really. The Night Elf Empire existed before her, then when she came to power she plunged it into civil war and destroyed it. She was only saved by divine intervention and when she tried to betray her saviour she was captured. Shes powerful but shes hardly successful.
    Before Azshara the night elf empire was hardly expanding and rather small, she is responsible for it spanning almost the entire planet, Azshara had pretty much subdued the entire world, the only reason the empire fell, was because she was just too darn greedy.

  13. #33
    It’s not entirely clear to me, was there what you say?

  14. #34
    The Kaldorei Empire was much like the Roman Empire in the real world. It became so big that it crumbled under the weight of it's size, and the lust for power of it's leaders

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    I must say that would be totally unexpected. And I think, a lot more hardcore players would be okay with Azshara becoming the chosen one, because they don't care for her as much as they do say Illidan.

    They were so annoyed at Illidan becoming the chosen one.. and I blame entirely teh early lleak on the novel, in MMO-C that ruinedthat plot.. too many people read the main points WITHOUT the context, and alreadymade up their midn they didn't like it. Despite the entire book writeten to properly explainwhat was truly remarkable about illidan in a positive (if you could call it that) way.

    Azshara transitioning from greatest ruler, to geratest villain, to chosen one would be interesting to say the least, beucase everyone expects her to either die sooon, or die later, and think they know her well, despite very little been said about her character, and her history demanding that there is more to her than meets the eye.

    But when you don't care about her or night elves, you don't tend to pay much attention. Like most guys do, you make fast conclusions, and move on. Which is why you are surprised when something different is done with those characters.
    LoL I remember when the spoilers for Illidan novel came out.

    the shitstorm was almost as bad as SL cinematic.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    I must say that would be totally unexpected. And I think, a lot more hardcore players would be okay with Azshara becoming the chosen one, because they don't care for her as much as they do say Illidan.

    They were so annoyed at Illidan becoming the chosen one.. and I blame entirely teh early lleak on the novel, in MMO-C that ruinedthat plot.. too many people read the main points WITHOUT the context, and alreadymade up their midn they didn't like it. Despite the entire book writeten to properly explainwhat was truly remarkable about illidan in a positive (if you could call it that) way.

    Azshara transitioning from greatest ruler, to geratest villain, to chosen one would be interesting to say the least, beucase everyone expects her to either die sooon, or die later, and think they know her well, despite very little been said about her character, and her history demanding that there is more to her than meets the eye.

    But when you don't care about her or night elves, you don't tend to pay much attention. Like most guys do, you make fast conclusions, and move on. Which is why you are surprised when something different is done with those characters.
    There's nothing more to her story. She is a powerhungry psycho with a God complex. She wanted to marry Sargeras. She wanted to reshape the world according to her vision. She then made a deal with N'Zoth and wanted to bend even a god to her will. She is a scumbag. At this point the only thing we don't know is how her hubris will lead to her demise.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by WonderZebra View Post
    Not really. The Night Elf Empire existed before her, then when she came to power she plunged it into civil war and destroyed it. She was only saved by divine intervention and when she tried to betray her saviour she was captured. Shes powerful but shes hardly successful.
    that's true but Azshara ruled Kaldorei empire for at least 2,000 years which is a lot.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Orisai View Post
    The Kaldorei Empire was much like the Roman Empire in the real world. It became so big that it crumbled under the weight of it's size, and the lust for power of it's leaders
    it has many roman influences, so I guess it all makes sense. Shame we never got to see that in full scale.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    This is neither Starcraft nor Star Wars. There is no chosen one. This was the point of Legion.

    Also, if there really is a chosen one, it certainly won't be a bitch with a God complex who wanted to marry literally Satan.
    That's why she has God complex. She is the chosen one. She is WoW equivalent of God Emperor of Mankind.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Not every nightelf with golden eyes accomplished great things.
    Ithalaine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    There's nothing more to her story. She is a powerhungry psycho with a God complex. She wanted to marry Sargeras. She wanted to reshape the world according to her vision. She then made a deal with N'Zoth and wanted to bend even a god to her will. She is a scumbag. At this point the only thing we don't know is how her hubris will lead to her demise.
    So she is like Alliance with their imperialism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Before Azshara the night elf empire was hardly expanding and rather small, she is responsible for it spanning almost the entire planet, Azshara had pretty much subdued the entire world, the only reason the empire fell, was because she was just too darn greedy.
    And enamored. Maybe if she stood against Sargeras, she would be able to get some Legion worlds as her colonies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    To be honest, the only argument you can use to prove she'll be redeemed is that she's popular, which is a meta reason. But that's a weak argument, because Arthas was the most popular character in the franchise and they killed him early on in WoW's history.
    "And I will set us all free!" - Sylvanas

    But at the same time, they've literally done nothing to show that either Sylvanas or Azshara are willing to atone for their sins, and so any redemption arc for either of them would just be forced and absurd.
    There is no need of good will. If one of them saves the world, it is enough to be thankful. Did Illidan apologise for all Draenei he killed? No, he is proud of that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skulmar View Post
    Agreed. Light infused beings have had golden eyes since WC2, and I wouldn't have thought the two were connected until Xera told Illidan: "From birth, the light in your eyes held such promise for the future," which strongly implies to me that they are.
    The difference is that Turalyon had to do something to deserve golden eyes, while elves are blessed with them from birth. It likely means that Light wants to do something with an elf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Chozo View Post
    No. Azshara had her greatness already - Queen of the Empire. She threw it in the trash.

    Now, other greatness awaits her. She will seek Sargeras once more - to free him from the Seat of the Pantheon.
    Is she that dumb? Sargeras put a giant sword in her planet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skulmar View Post
    Agreed.

    But the Naaru might still be searching for a “chosen one” and Azshara might just be arrogant and power hungry enough to take them up on that offer.
    Not really. Illidan was power hungry(especially in Warcraft 3) but he didn't want Light, as it would dominate him. Azshara is power hungry and proud, so she would never accept giving her will away for some power. She is that kind of person who would shoot laser against stronger being to prove her might.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  20. #40
    I want more Azshara, because her sass and voice actress are delightful. Nazjatar, Azshara, Nyalotha and N'zoth were wasted villain and world potential whereas we got instead 2/3 of an expansion where Sylvanas'es plot was going who knows where.

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