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  1. #301
    I'm still baffled by the fact that people think mass out of combat CC actually takes any kind of marginal coordination. Most of them have no CD, DR, and do not aggro. If anyone screw up? Just reapply it.

    The "skillless" aoe and in-combat CC rotation actually takes way more coordination and have far more risk if someone screws up, because the tank is much more vulnerable to getting gibbed when the mobs are not controlled.

  2. #302
    Quote Originally Posted by david0925 View Post
    I'm still baffled by the fact that people think mass out of combat CC actually takes any kind of marginal coordination. Most of them have no CD, DR, and do not aggro. If anyone screw up? Just reapply it.

    The "skillless" aoe and in-combat CC rotation actually takes way more coordination and have far more risk if someone screws up, because the tank is much more vulnerable to getting gibbed when the mobs are not controlled.
    what keys are you talking about here? i haven't seen any situation where the tank gets gibbed easily unless it's a tank just taking necrotic stacks without clearing...

  3. #303
    Quote Originally Posted by Loveliest View Post
    At the start of Cata, dungeons were hard. You had to coordinate CCs (cause packs pulled immediately when mobs were CC-ed), had to actually do proper tactics, had implicit timers (for example if you couldn't kill big adds fast enough, they would spawn little dragons that would wipe you).
    This led to a few things:
    - some people just couldn't do them - I myself spent 2 hours in a dungeon with some guildies and they couldn't wrap their head around the Valiona boss; eventually had 2 of them leave to make room for other guildies so at least SOME could get some loot and points
    - tank numbers in pugs declined - people didn't want to tank when you actually had to hold aggro, not break CC, know proper tactics, mark and coordinate CCs for your team and do so with pugs
    - people started whining they were trying from morning to night to finish dungeons and couldn't; obviously not all, but a lot of them; a lot of people stopped playing altogether because they couldn't finish one bloody dungeon. It was pretty hard to carry people at the start, especially pugs

    It's like this... if it's not the timer it's gonna be something else. I've yet to see here a "solution" to this timer thing that can avoid toxicity of other players. No matter what you choose, you'll always be subjected to stress and you'll always be judged. There's no such thing a stress-free solution.
    While I don't think Cataclysm heroics pre-nerf were really that hard, I do think that if people want a m+ without timer to be valid, the very very least is making hard CCs immediately put you in combat and aggro the packs again. Of course, the whiners is going to say that's a timer on its own as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raspberry Lemon View Post
    what keys are you talking about here? i haven't seen any situation where the tank gets gibbed easily unless it's a tank just taking necrotic stacks without clearing...
    I'm talking about overpulling in general, nothing too specific, versus meticulously CCing over half of a single pack and then kill one at a time, because a lot of people seem to have the impression that "mindlessly" aoeing down things is easy compared to "coordinating" out of combat CCs, when people that are pushing the hardest keys easily have to take way more risks because, "gasp", a timer exist.

  4. #304
    Quote Originally Posted by david0925 View Post
    I'm talking about overpulling in general, nothing too specific, versus meticulously CCing over half of a single pack and then kill one at a time, because a lot of people seem to have the impression that "mindlessly" aoeing down things is easy compared to "coordinating" out of combat CCs, when people that are pushing the hardest keys easily have to take way more risks because, "gasp", a timer exist.
    doing the 4 first pulls at the same time in freehold hasn't resulted in the tank being instantly gibbed when i've done it even if people don't care about controlling the mobs... the dps are at higher risk of death than the tank... he's pretty much armor capped through the whole pull... he runs with 1.1 million hp too and takes increased healing by almost 18%... if he has procs it is like 30% increased healing and a lot more hp... he can outheal me through a dungeon sometimes...
    Last edited by Raspberry Lemon; Yesterday at 03:26 PM.

  5. #305
    90% of the reason why I don't do mythic + is because of the timer. I don't like to be timed when I play WoW. So I haven never done very many keys. Just not my thing.

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