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  1. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    Not every activity requires a participation trophy for people who can't bother challenging themselves.
    A challenging activity does not have to require a timer to be challenging.

    There are plenty of rpgs out there that are challenging and don’t have timers.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    Yes, IF no timer rewards are far worse than timed rewards.

    You don’t run the same dungeon countless times because it’s fun, you do it for the reward in the end.
    You already get 3 pieces of loot for timing the dungeon vs 2 items when depleting, 50% more.

    People can ignore the timer if they want, just 1 out of 5 has to actually time dungeons to upgrade it once in a while. I have friends who take me up to +17 so I get a high key which I then play with my guild friends for the chest. Timed 13s with my guild which seems to be our skillcap but we go up to 16s with my key even if it takes twice the timer. Next week I still have a 15 to waste.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    A challenging activity does not have to require a timer to be challenging.

    There are plenty of rpgs out there that are challenging and don’t have timers.
    This isn't just a normal rpg though where you're the only player. This is an MMORPG where millions play this game. It isn't fair to players who actively complete challenges the way as intended, to get the same rewards as someone who doesn't do it as designed.

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    A challenging activity does not have to require a timer to be challenging.

    There are plenty of rpgs out there that are challenging and don’t have timers.
    And there are plenty of things to do in WoW that dont have timers as well. No need to add more when it isnt needed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    You already get 3 pieces of loot for timing the dungeon vs 2 items when depleting, 50% more.

    People can ignore the timer if they want, just 1 out of 5 has to actually time dungeons to upgrade it once in a while. I have friends who take me up to +17 so I get a high key which I then play with my guild friends for the chest. Timed 13s with my guild which seems to be our skillcap but we go up to 16s with my key even if it takes twice the timer. Next week I still have a 15 to waste.
    They said far worse... not slightly worse.

  5. #145
    I think the timer is what makes M+ inherently interesting so no, I don't want M+ without a timer. An interesting compromise would be a group of challenging dungeons that drop +10 quality gear but are not able to be done in M+. Think one part Magister's Terrace, one part the Heroic ICC dungeons. I doubt Blizzard would do it but it'd be a nice in-between.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    Making QoL worse is not the way to fix the game. Just look at Classic, all the boomers are starting to realize that intentionally making the game worse because "that's how it was in 2004" is stupid(an example being spell batching)
    Batching wasn't exactly an intended choice, but a technical restriction.
    You'd be hardpressed to find people who also called the debuff cap a good design choice, it also was just a technical restriction.

    If Blizzard had found to way to get rid off batching in 2005, they would have most likely implemented it.

    Classic is supposed to be a as close as possible recreation on a technical level, not a "Classic remastered".

  7. #147
    Speedrunning has no place in an mmo, so yes.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post
    A challenging activity does not have to require a timer to be challenging.

    There are plenty of rpgs out there that are challenging and don’t have timers.
    Turns out we're playing an MMORPG, not just an RPG.

    If there was no timer, people would be running content that is way out of their league by lusting on every pull.

    Sounds a bit wrong that people who require lust on every pull deserve the same reward as people who can do it without.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Batching wasn't exactly an intended choice, but a technical restriction.
    You'd be hardpressed to find people who also called the debuff cap a good design choice, it also was just a technical restriction.

    If Blizzard had found to way to get rid off batching in 2005, they would have most likely implemented it.

    Classic is supposed to be a as close as possible recreation on a technical level, not a "Classic remastered".
    Yes, at the time they were necessary. In Classic they're things that intentionally make the game worse.
    Intshuffle
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  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    Yes, at the time they were necessary. In Classic they're things that intentionally make the game worse.
    No, just authentic, because that was the product that Blizzard wanted to deliver: an authentic experience.

  11. #151
    Legendary! Frolk's Avatar
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    Whats next, you wanna add 4 NPCs for M+ so u can do it without any human interaction?

    If u cant beat the M+ timer, u dont deserve the loot, just stop being bad, stop pugging.

    Doing M+ with a full proper guild group of GOOD people will make go smooth.
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  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald The Mcdonald View Post
    This isn't just a normal rpg though where you're the only player. This is an MMORPG where millions play this game. It isn't fair to players who actively complete challenges the way as intended, to get the same rewards as someone who doesn't do it as designed.
    Look at it that way:
    Even IF a group needs bloodlust for every trash pack in a dungeon, because they could not do it otherwise, players who do it "the way it is designed" can do multiple m+ in the time the lust player takes to do one. Meaning they still have a major competitive edge. Besides that: In my experience most groups disband after a few wipes anyway, even if you get loot for just completing the dungeon. So wiping through a dungeon would be neglectable I think.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    Turns out we're playing an MMORPG, not just an RPG.

    If there was no timer, people would be running content that is way out of their league by lusting on every pull.

    Sounds a bit wrong that people who require lust on every pull deserve the same reward as people who can do it without.
    >Group A is a bunch of plebs that need to use bloodlust on every pull. This makes them incredibly slow. All that waiting means they take 2 hours to clear the dungeon. Not all of them get an item in the end.

    >Group B is made up of highly skilled players. They breeze through the dungeon in 10 minutes. In the same time group A needed to clear one dungeon, they clear 10, and get a lot more items.

    I see absolutely no problem with this.

  14. #154
    mythic+ doesn't work without timer... it's the foundation of the system.

  15. #155
    Why not just run heroic or normal mythic? They have no timers.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragnarohk View Post

    You used 3 tanks/2 healers
    Thats how you create brainless content, next.

  17. #157
    So basically just dungeons tuned harder?

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronald The Mcdonald View Post
    This isn't just a normal rpg though where you're the only player. This is an MMORPG where millions play this game. It isn't fair to players who actively complete challenges the way as intended, to get the same rewards as someone who doesn't do it as designed.
    You are totally right.

    I am only wondering if putting a timer is the only way to offer a challenge, be it a solo or grouped challenge.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    And there are plenty of things to do in WoW that dont have timers as well. No need to add more when it isnt needed.

    - - - Updated - - -



    They said far worse... not slightly worse.
    Yes, but that “plenty of things without a timer” to do offer far worse rewards than “timed activities”.

    FAR worse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    Turns out we're playing an MMORPG, not just an RPG.

    If there was no timer, people would be running content that is way out of their league by lusting on every pull.

    Sounds a bit wrong that people who require lust on every pull deserve the same reward as people who can do it without.
    People who make 10+ in time are not gifted by the god of skill, they are simply lucky enough to be in a good guild and have more time to waste in game than the average joe.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by chiddie View Post

    People who make 10+ in time are not gifted by the god of skill, they are simply lucky enough to be in a good guild and have more time to waste in game than the average joe.
    There's no luck involved in "being in a good guild" nor does it take massive number of hours to get +10s done.

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Diliamlol View Post
    Why not just run heroic or normal mythic? They have no timers.
    Because their rewards are worse than world quests.

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