Mythic+ without timer

[Ghostile]

Yes I would enjoy it. In fact, I would start doing them again. I did it when it was first introduced but quickly stopped doing them alot and ended up with doing just a few m+ a week and it was usally never a really high key.

These days I dont bother at all. Only if a friend/guildmate ask.

For me, personally, it ruined dungeons in wow. But thats just me, it might be better overall for the game for all I know.

So, the timer tickting in the corner ruined dungeons for you?

wut?

[crusadernero]

So, the timer tickting in the corner ruined dungeons for you?

wut?

Somewhat yes. So many times I have been in groups that just leaves if they get a inch feeling of not completing the dungeon in time. So many times I have been in groups were we are good enough to clear it, but not good enough to reach the timer. So many times I have been in groups with people that only can communicate with "googogogogoog" or rage at every little "time wasting" thing someone does.

I dont care THAT much about the timer, but it does decide how a dungeon is supposed to be cleared. Look at IE; The concept is great but the end result of it is "gogoogogog" & clear it as quickly as possible. It leaves out alot of cool gameplay opportunities since the main goal is to zerg through it.

But again as I said - thats how I feel it. Its my subjective feeling and how I see the m+ timer. It might be better overfall for the game, maybe most people that play wow and do m+ like it.

[Ghostile]

Somewhat yes. So many times I have been in groups that just leaves if they get a inch feeling of not completing the dungeon in time. So many times I have been in groups were we are good enough to clear it, but not good enough to reach the timer. So many times I have been in groups with people that only can communicate with "googogogogoog" or rage at every little "time wasting" thing someone does.

I dont care THAT much about the timer, but it does decide how a dungeon is supposed to be cleared. Look at IE; The concept is great but the end result of it is "gogoogogog" & clear it as quickly as possible. It leaves out alot of cool gameplay opportunities since the main goal is to zerg through it.

But again as I said - thats how I feel it. Its my subjective feeling and how I see the m+ timer. It might be better overfall for the game, maybe most people that play wow and do m+ like it.

Have you ever tried making a group that clearly states you are not racing for the timer?

[crusadernero]

Have you ever tried making a group that clearly states you are not racing for the timer?

Ofc I have. I have played this game since its very beginning and I know the best way is to just create your own group. But to my surprise it often takes so much time finding these people so I ended up not giving a shit about it. I clear m0 or m+ 4-7 keys and spend my time doing other things in the game.

Funny thing is, m+ actually made me drift much more towards raids. Years ago dungeons were the main activity, now its the raids. Theres no timer there and people are overall more relaxed between boss fights etc. For me the m+ timer runs is just not worth it so I dont bother with it.

And again, m+ timer might be the best thing ever for most people that play wow. And im fine with that, I just move onto other things in the game.

[chiddie]

But you're not advancing to a higher difficulty despite clearly being able to overcome the current difficulty. Some of us enjoy doing a dungeon at a slower pace while still having challenges to overcome. Some of us enjoy not having to memorise the optimal pulls, have the optimal setup, aoe fest while knowing exactly what to interrupt when out of those 20 pulled mobs.

Imagine a world where we could just be allowed to do a difficult dungeon. Eventually the bosses themselves function as hard caps. This would solve so many problems for Everyone, and especially those who doesn't have a steady group or high enough ilvl and/or score.

Also, there is this notion that if you get rewarded with an upgraded key just for finishing at all, then you can not have greater rewards and higher key upgrades for finishing on time.

This is stupidity at best and distilled toxic elitism at worst.

This is basically why we tanks are so few at the moment. Learning paths 2-9 is a work and then you have to re-learn everything for 10+, while basically every other class can just pew pew and “run away little girl” from bad stuff on the floor.

If timer has to stay, a solution could be make the dungeons shorter: 3 bosses with 20 mins timer instead of 4 bosses and 35-40 minutes timer.

[Enter Name Here]

you clear the dungeon, you earn the next key - easy as that, no timer required
do that until your group gets annihilated by trash mobs

it even stretches gametime for shareholders since nobody needs to rush the dungeon

everyone wins, worldpeace achieved

[Kokolums]

the source of toxic behavior is the same in real life as it is in video games. or as Jesus taught, if you get rid of confident people and get rid of people who gossip, you create heaven on Earth. If you build a group of confident gossipy people you create hell on Earth.

[Ronald The Mcdonald]

What defines successfully clearing a dungeon?

Both the groups that took 30 mins and 5 hours, but killed all the bosses, successfully cleared the dungeon.

But if group A completed in 30 minutes within the timer and Group B completed it in 5 hours, why should Group B gain the same rewards as Group A? It isn't fair for Group A when the whole point of mythic+ is to complete it efficiently and timely as possible. You can't just have your cake and eat it too. You want challenging fights and loot? You get that already if you ignore the timer, but you can't expect your key to upgrade as well even if you put in 5 hours. By that logic the key can theoretically reach crazy levels.

[PaladinBash]

I mean I wouldn't care. I just do 15s now for my box. I did 10s last week. It's easy as shit to do a 15 now in time without effort and doing higher is pointless to me, same as it was doing 10s before. Timer or not means nothing except for total shitties that can't even time things as it is somehow. I don't know how it's possible but I'm guessing people find a way to be somehow too terrible at some point...maybe 9s? I don't know the cutoff for shittiness because I screen my groups. If you have only shitties in a group then yeah sure, I can imagine it will suck. Timer won't change that. Maybe it'll let the shitties get something but that's not something I care about. It will screw over the try-hards that want to 'push content' and eliminate the progression for some reason. Screwing them over won't bother me either.

All in all, I'm okay with the change but don't care if it doesn't happen.

[kamuimac]

Yes but you need to given a cap on number of deaths. Also makes it an issue with unlimited time, do you just wait for bloodlust before each pull? It has problems.

why ?

if people choose to spend 10 hours in 1 dungeon it would be a good thing for them .

all the discussions they could have on discord during it - planing how to progress further - what cc to use what abilties etc

that would be a real rpg experience

not the abomination that mythic + is.

[MrLachyG]

what's the point of removing the timer? the entire point of the timer is to provide a challenge. if you're sick of dealing with toxic people I suggest you find a like minded group, maybe in a guild, and just go with the mantra "if we make the timer, great! if we don't, ah well!"

[Tradu]

why ?

if people choose to spend 10 hours in 1 dungeon it would be a good thing for them .

all the discussions they could have on discord during it - planing how to progress further - what cc to use what abilties etc

that would be a real rpg experience

not the abomination that mythic + is.

You have that in M+ as well, you just have the added skill of having to make those decisions while under time pressure instead of having all the time in the world.

[Kaver]

But you're not advancing to a higher difficulty despite clearly being able to overcome the current difficulty.

Right now the timer is part of the difficulty and if you didn't do it in time then you didn't overcome the difficulty. If they removed the timer they would have to make the content even more challenging to compensate for that. If you have unlimited time then Blizzard would make the bosses of dungeons way harder.

- - - Updated - - -

why ?

if people choose to spend 10 hours in 1 dungeon it would be a good thing for them .

all the discussions they could have on discord during it - planing how to progress further - what cc to use what abilties etc

that would be a real rpg experience

not the abomination that mythic + is.

You just plan those things before the dungeon. Method even made a tool to help you do that.

M+ is fun and one of the greatest parts of the game.

- - - Updated - - -

Current rush-rush-aoe mentality is part of what ruined retail WoW for me. M+ (and CM before M+) timers played huge role in creating that mentality and making dungeon experience toxic shit.

You don't have to do neither M+ or Challenge mode if you don't want to.

And the toxic environment is not created by the content. It's created by the fact that you choose to play with complete stangers who don't give a shit about you and you don't give a shit about them. The content wouldn't be toxic if you played with friends you actually care about.

[chiddie]

Have you ever tried making a group that clearly states you are not racing for the timer?

Have you ever tried to see how much time it takes to gather a group if you are not a tank or an healer?

If you states “fokk the timer” in the description you will take even more.

Most of us puggers have not the luxury to being able to wait one hour to form a group.

[kamuimac]

In theory, yes. In reality, no.

Like, I'm not gonna go into a random +122 key, take every mob individually while keeping 5 other mobs perma CC-ed for 10 minutes (because it will take 10 minutes to kill a single mob), spend an overall amount of like 7 hours in there and in the end be rewarded with... maybe a heroic piece of loot, more likely a pathetically pathetic amount of AP.

CC'ing whole packs and spending 5 minutes per pack was bearable in TBC 10 years ago when no one knew how to play a video game. 10 years later I just don't have that patience anymore.

Now if we're talking about random low ass +10 keys but without timers... I really don't see the point in that. If you can't beat the dungeon in 20 minutes or without wiping 37 times in 5 minutes, maybe... just maybe... you shouldn't be there, doesn't matter if you could eventually best it in 59 minutes with a wipe counter of 133. I don't see what problem a timer removal would solve other than boosting people through content that they otherwise wouldn't be able to best.

imagine that dungeon dropping 510 itlv gear.

ye you would CC those mobs all day long

imo its time to go back to no timers , rewards from each boss times.

mythic + popularity is falling down with each month.

[Nobleshield]

If you ask me the timer is the worst part of M+. It takes the worst aspect of dungeons, the "gogogo" mindset that first really came up the end of Wrath and puts it at the forefront of the content, along with "skips" which IMHO are also one of the worst things in a dungeon since most of the time the time it would take to just kill the fucking trash pack is less than it would be if someone asspulls and causes a wipe because the group is in such a rush they'll try to run around a group that could easily be killed to save a couple seconds.

[Zelk]

No timer would turn m+ into a tedious war of attrition. No thanks.

[Aphrel]

Id go as far as saying i think tid be even more enjoyable without the timer, as the timer kinda drives home the point of how ineffective you play and how much times your waisting whenever a pull don't go your way.

I also think the trash porgress bar aswell as the boss cehckboxes to the right is killing the immersion of the dungeon.
A dungeon shouldnt feel like your shopping grocerys checking boxes for each item. It should be an adventure, this min maxing of routes and trash pulls should only be something that become a thing once youve done a dungeon many times and know it like your own livingroom.

I also think loot should drop from bosses, not from a chest at the end of the dungeon and DEFINETLY NOT from a weekly chest in your capital hub.

And fuck it, this is gonna be a rant!

Bring back wipe running, spawning in the dungeon and being able to release and be right back in action if youve just reached a spawnpoint is just rediculus. It doesnt need to be the superlong wipe run of Razorfen downs as alliance, but at least some distance. Wow became a success for a reason, lets bring back more features from its roots.

[Ghostile]

Have you ever tried to see how much time it takes to gather a group if you are not a tank or an healer?

If you states “fokk the timer” in the description you will take even more.

Most of us puggers have not the luxury to being able to wait one hour to form a group.

So you are saying there is a hilariously small amount of people who are interested in running m+ without timer?

[Sinx]

As opposed to before mythic+ when you had..oh wait, nothing but raids :P