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  1. #341
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    They are neither correct nor incorrect - that's what an opinion is. Holy.
    They can't be both at the same time. Something is either right or its wrong. An persons opinion can be right or wrong but that doesn't automatically mean they are factually right or wrong. Again it is that you are never wrong for having an opinion but your opinion can be wrong. You have both argued that opinions can not be wrong and that they are always wrong. And yet you refuse to admit that you are wrong on one of those accounts.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  2. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    They can't be both at the same time. Something is either right or its wrong. An persons opinion can be right or wrong but that doesn't automatically mean they are factually right or wrong. Again it is that you are never wrong for having an opinion but your opinion can be wrong. You have both argued that opinions can not be wrong and that they are always wrong. And yet you refuse to admit that you are wrong on one of those accounts.
    This is wrong. Here's an example: "Purple is the best color." Now tell me, is that right or wrong? One word answers only, please.

    I have never argued that opinions are ever wrong. It is impossible for opinions to be wrong.

  3. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    I did not ignore everything you wrote. I countered each point. Most of which you responded with "you're dumb." It's not looking good for you.
    Again: you focused on that single sentence and ignored everything written past that.

    I would agree that specific rules overrule general rules. Great point. I would also say that in-game rules overrule forum rules. This is where we disagree.
    And you would be wrong. Dead wrong. Especially since it's a "in-game rule" but simply a bugged mechanic. All rules come from Blizzard, that write them on their official website.

    Being informed beyond the scope of the game is a good thing to do. But to require it as protection from being banned is where it goes too far.
    It's not "going too far". You follow the rules to avoid being punished. Rules exist to maintain fair play. Breaking the rules demands punishment. Banning is one such punishment.

    I don't consider following game mechanics cheating. This is where we disagree.
    And, again, you are wrong. Dead wrong. You're exploiting a bug. A defective game mechanic.

    This is not true. Blizzard does ban on first offenses of using game mechanics if Blizzard deems it bannable. As creators of the game, this is their right. My opinion is that this is stupid.
    Wrong. Blizzard never bans on first offenses. And for the record: doing the exploit 2+ times before being caught the first time does not count as a "single offense".

    As I have said at least three times in the thread already, I don't think it's reasonable to expect players to know which programmed mechanics are bugs and which are not bugs.
    I'm sorry if you're unreasonable, but it is reasonable to expect players to know what is a bug or not, and at the very least inform themselves if a given mechanic is a bug or not if it goes against established rules dictated by Blizzard.

    I don't think they intentionally program glitches and bugs.
    And yet you act as if you do:
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    I don't consider following game mechanics cheating.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Blizzard also announced that this item can be traded to those who are eligible. It is on the item itself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    You can only earn 1 raid item per week, yet they can be traded to you. This item can also be traded to you. It's not different.

    I do think that if Blizzard messes up, it should not be the players who are responsible for Blizzard's mistake.
    Which is why Blizzard never bans on first offenses, only on repeated offenses.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
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  4. #344
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    As I have said at least three times in the thread already, I don't think it's reasonable to expect players to know which programmed mechanics are bugs and which are not bugs.
    Which is why Blizzard rarely takes action if you do it once. It is when you do it multiple times that they tend to take action. Because it is reasonable for players to know the game and what is and is not likely intended. That is why most of the small things simply get fixed with out many account actions taken. Because they are small.

    The source of the game? Great, the game told me that I could trade it! Glad I won't get banned for doing what the game told me I could do!
    But that isn't the definition of exploiting. You can exploit the game with things that are normally possible to do. It is all about the ways you do something and the intention. There is a reason why people used to get in trouble for exploiting the economy. Or why extreme griefing/harassment can be against the rules. Just because you can do something in game doesn't mean you are allowed to do it. You are coming across as a spoiled child with this "If I can do it then it can't be illegal".

    Exploiting rarely has a ban as a repercussion unless you took it to the extreme. Blizzard used to operate on a "penalty volcano". Where the more you did something the higher you went and the more drastic the repercussions could be. They don't seem to have it on the support page anymore so it isn't clear if they still operate on that exact policy. But I'm sure it is close. A ban and a suspension are not the same thing. One is temporary and one is longer though yes many use it interchangeably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    This is wrong. Here's an example: "Purple is the best color." Now tell me, is that right or wrong? One word answers only, please. I have never argued that opinions are ever wrong. It is impossible for opinions to be wrong.
    But that is your belief that purple is the best color. Or do you not believe your own opinion? Opinions can be wrong all of the time. Some are subjective like a favorite color but some are not subjective at all. You have also said opinions are wrong. I quoted you the very post that you ignore. I'm sure you'll claim it was a typo but it was a pretty hard typo to make.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Opinions cannot be correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    The OPINION is not wrong
    You just argued opinions are ever wrong by saying the opinion is not wrong. You also argued that the opinion can never be correct. But opinions can be true or false. You are just changing the definitions to suit your argument so you do not have to be wrong. You keep using belief and opinion interchangeably depending on what point you need the meanings to make.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  5. #345
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Again: you focused on that single sentence and ignored everything written past that.


    And you would be wrong. Dead wrong. Especially since it's a "in-game rule" but simply a bugged mechanic. All rules come from Blizzard, that write them on their official website.


    It's not "going too far". You follow the rules to avoid being punished. Rules exist to maintain fair play. Breaking the rules demands punishment. Banning is one such punishment.


    And, again, you are wrong. Dead wrong. You're exploiting a bug. A defective game mechanic.


    Wrong. Blizzard never bans on first offenses. And for the record: doing the exploit 2+ times before being caught the first time does not count as a "single offense".


    I'm sorry if you're unreasonable, but it is reasonable to expect players to know what is a bug or not, and at the very least inform themselves if a given mechanic is a bug or not if it goes against established rules dictated by Blizzard.


    And yet you act as if you do:






    Which is why Blizzard never bans on first offenses, only on repeated offenses.
    There were at least two sentences. You are objectively wrong, here.

    It's an opinion. It can't be wrong.

    People that traded cores did follow the in-game rules.

    Cannot be wrong on an opinion. It is unclear whether it was unintended or not, based on conflicting messages from Blizzard.

    You are wrong. There are lots of cases of first offense bans.

    I am not being unreasonable. We disagree on expectations of players. Requiring people do out-of-game research to resist a ban is going to far. If the game says that something cannot be done, but it is programmed to be done, then yes, that is an obvious bug.

    I don't see how any of these statements purport that Blizzard intentionally programs glitches and bugs. Please, enlighten me in a new post.

    Blizzard bans on first offenses.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Which is why Blizzard rarely takes action if you do it once. It is when you do it multiple times that they tend to take action. Because it is reasonable for players to know the game and what is and is not likely intended. That is why most of the small things simply get fixed with out many account actions taken. Because they are small.



    But that isn't the definition of exploiting. You can exploit the game with things that are normally possible to do. It is all about the ways you do something and the intention. There is a reason why people used to get in trouble for exploiting the economy. Or why extreme griefing/harassment can be against the rules. Just because you can do something in game doesn't mean you are allowed to do it. You are coming across as a spoiled child with this "If I can do it then it can't be illegal".

    Exploiting rarely has a ban as a repercussion unless you took it to the extreme. Blizzard used to operate on a "penalty volcano". Where the more you did something the higher you went and the more drastic the repercussions could be. They don't seem to have it on the support page anymore so it isn't clear if they still operate on that exact policy. But I'm sure it is close. A ban and a suspension are not the same thing. One is temporary and one is longer though yes many use it interchangeably.

    - - - Updated - - -



    But that is your belief that purple is the best color. Or do you not believe your own opinion? Opinions can be wrong all of the time. Some are subjective like a favorite color but some are not subjective at all. You have also said opinions are wrong. I quoted you the very post that you ignore. I'm sure you'll claim it was a typo but it was a pretty hard typo to make.




    You just argued opinions are ever wrong by saying the opinion is not wrong. You also argued that the opinion can never be correct. But opinions can be true or false. You are just changing the definitions to suit your argument so you do not have to be wrong. You keep using belief and opinion interchangeably depending on what point you need the meanings to make.
    And I think that people should NEVER be banned for exploits. Exploiting is what the game is about. It's what every game is about. It's what life is about. Drawing an arbitrary line on what's too big of an exploit is not a philosophy I subscribe to.

    If it is mentioned that you cannot do something in the game and you do it, yes, you deserve to get banned for it. I agree. That is not what this debate is about.

    People that are good at games, and life, exploit everything to the maximum extent. This is smart. If you do something that's against the rules, that's not smart. I am saying that it is unclear whether or not this action was against the rules, and thus, should not have being banned as a result.

    Yes, it is also my belief. That belief is also an opinion. I can also have beliefs that are based on facts. "Earth is Flat" is a belief that is not based on opinion, but based on facts. In this case, the facts are wrong. It can be proven that Earth is not flat, making this belief wrong. It does not make the opinion wrong, because it's not an opinion. It's a belief. Beliefs can be wrong. Opinions cannot.

    Please, in a single, separate post, link what makes you think that I said opinions can be wrong because you still haven't linked anything that states that I ever said opinions can be wrong. You said twice that you did, but you didn't. I honestly have no clue what you're referring to.

  6. #346
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    And I think that people should NEVER be banned for exploits. Exploiting is what the game is about. It's what every game is about. It's what life is about. Drawing an arbitrary line on what's too big of an exploit is not a philosophy I subscribe to.
    That is the thing it doesn't matter what you believe or what your opinion on exploits is. What matters is the ToS and EULA and what they think of exploits. The game is not about exploiting either. It never has been and likely never will be. Nothing about WoW's gameplay is designed around the idea of exploiting. You already are drawing an arbitrary line on what is to big of an exploit by saying nothing is because all games are about exploiting.

    If it is mentioned that you cannot do something in the game and you do it, yes, you deserve to get banned for it. I agree. That is not what this debate is about.
    And yet you just said you are not subscribing to the philosophy or drawing arbitrary lines. And yet here you are doing just that.


    Yes, it is also my belief. That belief is also an opinion.
    And here we go with you flip flopping about what is belief and what is opinion when you want to prove yourself correct. You've stated multiple times that believes are not opinions. Opinions can both be subjective values and true and false values. An opinion is just a declarative statement about a belief.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Please, in a single, separate post, link what makes you think that I said opinions can be wrong because you still haven't linked anything that states that I ever said opinions can be wrong. You said twice that you did, but you didn't. I honestly have no clue what you're referring to.
    If you are not willing to read the things I am quoting then why would linking it a third time "in a separate post" change that? Are you saying that you do not read what is in the posts people are responding to you with?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  7. #347
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    That is the thing it doesn't matter what you believe or what your opinion on exploits is. What matters is the ToS and EULA and what they think of exploits. The game is not about exploiting either. It never has been and likely never will be. Nothing about WoW's gameplay is designed around the idea of exploiting. You already are drawing an arbitrary line on what is to big of an exploit by saying nothing is because all games are about exploiting.



    And yet you just said you are not subscribing to the philosophy or drawing arbitrary lines. And yet here you are doing just that.




    And here we go with you flip flopping about what is belief and what is opinion when you want to prove yourself correct. You've stated multiple times that believes are not opinions. Opinions can both be subjective values and true and false values. An opinion is just a declarative statement about a belief.

    - - - Updated - - -



    If you are not willing to read the things I am quoting then why would linking it a third time "in a separate post" change that? Are you saying that you do not read what is in the posts people are responding to you with?
    Correct. What I am saying is that this is an instance where ToS/EULA enter a grey area. It cannot be known to some people whether or not it's intended or not. Thus, no bans. Not drawing the line is not drawing it arbitrarily. For fairness, there should be no line. That's what I'm saying.

    I can have an opinion that is counter to the authority's opinion. This is not drawing an arbitrary line. Welcome to living life as a minority.

    It's not flip-flopping. You aren't comprehending correctly what I'm saying. Some beliefs are based on opinion. That does not mean that opinions and beliefs are the same thing. Doctors go to college. That doesn't mean that everyone that went to college is a doctor. It's simply a logical error you're making.

    I am willing to read things you quote - nothing of what you quoted backs up what you are claiming.

  8. #348
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    There were at least two sentences. You are objectively wrong, here.
    A single sentence, repeated twice. Doesn't change the fact you ignored everything written after them.

    It's an opinion. It can't be wrong.
    And this is where you're wrong. On both accounts.

    People that traded cores did follow the in-game rules.
    That is not a "in-game rule". That is a broken mechanic.

    Cannot be wrong on an opinion.
    Yes, you can.

    It is unclear whether it was unintended or not, based on conflicting messages from Blizzard.
    It was crystal-clear that it was unintended. Because Blizzard spelled out: "you can use ONE when at cap, and up to TWO when catching up. There was absolutely zero "conflicting messages".

    You are wrong. There are lots of cases of first offense bans.
    There are people claiming they did nothing wrong, or their first offense, at best. Blizzard does not ban on first offense.

    I am not being unreasonable. We disagree on expectations of players. Requiring people do out-of-game research to resist a ban is going to far.
    It's not "going too far". It's the game's own website where the developers post news and announcements about the game. It is not too much to expect people to read it. The game even has a button that takes you straight to their site.

    If the game says that something cannot be done, but it is programmed to be done, then yes, that is an obvious bug.
    Blizzard says it should not be done. You find out that the game allows you to do what Blizzard said should not happen. That is an obvious bug.

    I don't see how any of these statements purport that Blizzard intentionally programs glitches and bugs. Please, enlighten me in a new post.
    They show how you treat bugs and glitches as "intended design".

    Blizzard bans on first offenses.
    Except they don't, as they've already explained they monitor accounts that they find to be suspicious before taking action.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  9. #349
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    A single sentence, repeated twice. Doesn't change the fact you ignored everything written after them.


    And this is where you're wrong. On both accounts.


    That is not a "in-game rule". That is a broken mechanic.


    Yes, you can.


    It was crystal-clear that it was unintended. Because Blizzard spelled out: "you can use ONE when at cap, and up to TWO when catching up. There was absolutely zero "conflicting messages".


    There are people claiming they did nothing wrong, or their first offense, at best. Blizzard does not ban on first offense.


    It's not "going too far". It's the game's own website where the developers post news and announcements about the game. It is not too much to expect people to read it. The game even has a button that takes you straight to their site.


    Blizzard says it should not be done. You find out that the game allows you to do what Blizzard said should not happen. That is an obvious bug.


    They show how you treat bugs and glitches as "intended design".


    Except they don't, as they've already explained they monitor accounts that they find to be suspicious before taking action.
    Alright bub, after reading the first two quotes you made, it's clear that this discussion isn't going anywhere. I chose to not read the rest. It's time to move on.

  10. #350
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    I did not ignore everything you wrote. I countered each point. Most of which you responded with "you're dumb." It's not looking good for you.

    I would agree that specific rules overrule general rules. Great point. I would also say that in-game rules overrule forum rules. This is where we disagree.

    Being informed beyond the scope of the game is a good thing to do. But to require it as protection from being banned is where it goes too far.

    I don't consider following game mechanics cheating. This is where we disagree.

    Based on previous point, this is not relevant anymore.

    This is not true. Blizzard does ban on first offenses of using game mechanics if Blizzard deems it bannable. As creators of the game, this is their right. My opinion is that this is stupid.

    - - - Updated - - -



    As I have said at least three times in the thread already, I don't think it's reasonable to expect players to know which programmed mechanics are bugs and which are not bugs.

    I don't think they intentionally program glitches and bugs. I do think that if Blizzard messes up, it should not be the players who are responsible for Blizzard's mistake.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Again, opinions cannot be wrong. You can disagree, but I cannot be wrong. Error in code happens. The ToS states this, yes. It is not very clearly a bug. There is conflicting information in regards to what is allowable with the Malefic Cores. This is where my opinion is different from the rules in place. Imagine having the opinion that slavery is wrong in the USA in 1860 and being berated for your opinion. This is what you are doing. You are berating an individual for having an opinion that conflicts with the rules in place. How embarrassing.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The source of the game? Great, the game told me that I could trade it! Glad I won't get banned for doing what the game told me I could do!

    - - - Updated - - -



    This is why exploiting should never have bans as a repercussion.
    LOL DID YOU REALLY JUST COMPARE THIS TO DISAGREEING WITH SLAVERY?! Holy hell. Opinions absolutely can be wrong. Your opinion is a prime example of a WRONG opinion. If a player discovers a bug that allows them to do something they shouldn't and stop doing it, they're fine. People who notice they can do something they were NEVER ABLE TO DO BEFORE and keep doing it? They eat the ban hammer and deserve it. These are facts and not opinions.

  11. #351
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    It's not flip-flopping. You aren't comprehending correctly what I'm saying. Some beliefs are based on opinion. That does not mean that opinions and beliefs are the same thing. Doctors go to college. That doesn't mean that everyone that went to college is a doctor. It's simply a logical error you're making.
    Opinions are declarative statements based on beliefs. You can not have one with out the other. Of course everyone who went to college is not a doctor because there are multiple degrees. Just as not everything in the game is exploitative. You are the one that keeps making simple logical errors. Because declarative statements, which is what opinions are, can be both subjective and true or false. You are saying that they can only be subjective because some are. You are employing the very logical error you tried to apply to me.

    Also drawing a line at nothing is against the rules is still drawing the line at something. And of course your line is arbitrary because you are not defining an exploit as anything. You are just saying an exploit is impossible to exist because nothing is an exploit and everything is allowed to be done if it can be done. This also isn't an instance of a grey area with the EULA.

    "cheats; i.e. methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard, influencing and/or facilitating the gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs, and thereby granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods;" https://www.blizzard.com/en-us/legal...ense-agreement

    Using this method to gain more cores then one person is normally able to gain in a week is an exploit. There is no gray area. It is not subjective on if it is or is not against the rules.
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  12. #352
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    The bank has to compensate you if they mess up and accidentally put extra money in your bank account? Your job compensates you when you find a flaw in their time clock software that results in you getting extra time without working that extra time? That's what this is more akin to
    they sure at least don't dare to ban me for their f8ck ups, and my job force me to work extra these days with zero payment since i exist in egypt, a country that until recently held title the WORST country on earth
    So even in ur example, if bank put money by mistake, i withdraw it, they can only force me to return it, but they can't ban my account or stop any action i do (but it will be wise if they are caution)
    Blizz flat out punish u for their f8ck up, big difference
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  13. #353
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    they sure at least don't dare to ban me for their f8ck ups, and my job force me to work extra these days with zero payment since i exist in egypt, a country that until recently held title the WORST country on earth
    So even in ur example, if bank put money by mistake, i withdraw it, they can only force me to return it, but they can't ban my account or stop any action i do (but it will be wise if they are caution)
    Blizz flat out punish u for their f8ck up, big difference
    You sure about that?

    Banks are urged by federal law enforcement agencies and regulators to close questionable accounts -- or else risk getting hit with penalties. So they often end up shutting accounts even when a customer isn't doing anything explicitly illegal.

    If a customer is merely involved in an industry considered high risk or engaged in an unpopular or "unsavory" line of work, a bank may deem it safer to cut off the relationship, according to Robert Rowe, senior counsel at the American Bankers Association, which represents the nation's largest banks.
    https://money.cnn.com/2014/05/07/pf/...count-closing/

  14. #354
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    they sure at least don't dare to ban me for their f8ck ups, and my job force me to work extra these days with zero payment since i exist in egypt, a country that until recently held title the WORST country on earth
    So even in ur example, if bank put money by mistake, i withdraw it, they can only force me to return it, but they can't ban my account or stop any action i do (but it will be wise if they are caution)
    Blizz flat out punish u for their f8ck up, big difference
    If you found a flaw in your banks system that allowed you to abuse it in such a way that you could credit your account with more money than, they would not only make you repay the stolen money, they would like close your account and would press charges (this is the same line you're trying to make with WoW/Blizz). Most places of work, if you did the kind of thing I'm talking about, would like make you repay what you got in extra pay (if it was enough to be troublesome) and reprimand you in whatever way that company does. Just because the company didn't make you come work extra hours doesn't mean you aren't getting punished. Notice how on both of these cases, you not only lost your original benefit, but face further consequences?

  15. #355
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WintersLegion View Post
    ... what that has to do with the example i was talking about?
    If one day u go withdraw from bank, u find for example twice ur salary in it (let it be 6k egp), u withdraw all of them, the bank is allowed to force u to return the extra 3k, but they have no right to ban my account for their f8ck up of putting twice my salary
    This is same example in game, just instead of twice make it 3 times, u already get a reward, using teammate give u 3 more times, so why would u act like it is ur fault or even consider it illegal in first place?
    The example u giving is flat out cheating, like logging to wow and hack the game to fly, of course they are allowed to ban u, not log to game, find they give u 5k gold
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    ... but they have no right to ban my account for their f8ck up of putting twice my salary
    Banks can close your account whenever they want.

    https://www.wikihow.com/React-if-You...s-Your-Account
    https://money.cnn.com/2014/05/07/pf/...count-closing/

    *Country laws may vary
    Quote Originally Posted by GrinnersGrin View Post
    If Tinkers aren't the next class in WoW I'll shit in my hands and clap then eat my shoe.

  17. #357
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by themaster24 View Post
    If you found a flaw in your banks system that allowed you to abuse it in such a way that you could credit your account with more money than, they would not only make you repay the stolen money, they would like close your account and would press charges (this is the same line you're trying to make with WoW/Blizz). Most places of work, if you did the kind of thing I'm talking about, would like make you repay what you got in extra pay (if it was enough to be troublesome) and reprimand you in whatever way that company does. Just because the company didn't make you come work extra hours doesn't mean you aren't getting punished. Notice how on both of these cases, you not only lost your original benefit, but face further consequences?
    that literally didn't happen in old work i had
    in older work a mistake was done by someone in database, and a guy get extra payment when he was taking salary, next month they deduce that amount, he make a big legal problem and he win in end because when he took the money last month the company did NOT tell him it was mistake or wrong, it was their system that did give him money, hence why they have no right to deduce that amount in next month, not his fault, but the financial department, yeah his college is f8cked and probably get fired, but he himself isn't
    He didn't cheat, he didn't use any extra influence, he went to take his salary, found it almost double in bonus, leave, next month they wanted money back, he use his legal right, win, end of story (also that way he probably ended his future in that company either, but that's a different story)
    Blizz gave u the right to trade items in party, it is a reward for teamplay, only for later to be an 'illegal' act that deserves ban? wtf? if anyone f8cked up it is them, did they say in any official source that it is illegal to trade that item? If yes they are right to ban, if not they just wake up one day ban ppl, it is wrong to ban, that simple
    They can of course (and it is their right) to remove any reward from that mistake, but to ban u for their mistake now that is crossing line, they f8ck up and they punish u? What exactly isn't punishable then?

    I remember the bonus xp potion that stacked then they banned ppl, it had nothing in its description it doesn't stack, yet it was bugged and ppl could stack it to ridiculous degree, then ban hammer fell random on ppl for nothing, some ppl got banned for using it just once (the right way), others were gloating they lvled to max and didn't get a ban, blizz history of 'ban punish' is recorded for being sh8t, they rarely ban the right ppl for right action
    Why ban here and not ban ppl who abused the Tool of the Trade bug and made enough potions for end of history? At least this bug doesn't lead to insane unfair wealth ppl got fro tool of trade bug, just a boost in gear that will last very short anyway since this is last patch

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Sativex View Post
    Banks can close your account whenever they want.

    https://www.wikihow.com/React-if-You...s-Your-Account
    https://money.cnn.com/2014/05/07/pf/...count-closing/
    Country laws may vary
    i did read the cnn article and nothing in it says that if bank make a mistake in my account, they can close it
    And according to ur article they can't terminate a legal right account that obeys law, they have to have reason to terminate it or else the bank is f8cked up when u sue them for stopping ur legally approved documented work, u have to be first in highly risk job and not have explanation for your actions on that account
    Here it is blizz action that is f8cked up not urs, if bank give u key access to a vault that has 5 diamonds and tell u that u can take whatever u want in that vault (and all that is recorded and proved) and they forget it has 5 diamonds then u take them, literally no one can make u at fault
    If the bank tell u clearly to not take the 5 diamonds but u can do whatever u want (watch paint dry or whatever) and u take them, they have the right to not just ban u but also sue u for ur clearly breaking agreement

    The agreement between us and blizz is we pay, we play what they offer, we aren't allowed to cheat
    This trade didn't use any extra tool to cheat, it used what the game provided to them, in a way that doesn't even seem to be a bug (did they even say it is a bug btw?), then ban hit without u even knowing why

    And I assure u if blizz think they are right by law they would take u to course and sue u, as they literally did in diablo before (check activision history with suing players, even EA didn't do that as far i know)
    Last edited by sam86; 2020-03-27 at 07:43 AM.
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
    Thrall
    http://youtu.be/x3ejO7Nssj8 7:20+ "Alliance remaining super power", clearly blizz favor horde too much, that they made alliance the super power

  18. #358
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    The source of the game? Great, the game told me that I could trade it! Glad I won't get banned for doing what the game told me I could do!
    And then get banned for being a smartass. You know full well what was meant.

    Real world laws work the same way, by the way. They have to be made publically available, but they don't have to be announced to you, specificially. Not knowing the law is no defense against it.

  19. #359
    My friend has ~ 10 cores traded and not banned, I guess they dont give a real fuck. Mostly only to people who did this 20+times

  20. #360
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    that literally didn't happen in old work i had
    in older work a mistake was done by someone in database, and a guy get extra payment when he was taking salary, next month they deduce that amount, he make a big legal problem and he win in end because when he took the money last month the company did NOT tell him it was mistake or wrong, it was their system that did give him money, hence why they have no right to deduce that amount in next month, not his fault, but the financial department, yeah his college is f8cked and probably get fired, but he himself isn't
    He didn't cheat, he didn't use any extra influence, he went to take his salary, found it almost double in bonus, leave, next month they wanted money back, he use his legal right, win, end of story (also that way he probably ended his future in that company either, but that's a different story)
    Blizz gave u the right to trade items in party, it is a reward for teamplay, only for later to be an 'illegal' act that deserves ban? wtf? if anyone f8cked up it is them, did they say in any official source that it is illegal to trade that item? If yes they are right to ban, if not they just wake up one day ban ppl, it is wrong to ban, that simple
    They can of course (and it is their right) to remove any reward from that mistake, but to ban u for their mistake now that is crossing line, they f8ck up and they punish u? What exactly isn't punishable then?

    I remember the bonus xp potion that stacked then they banned ppl, it had nothing in its description it doesn't stack, yet it was bugged and ppl could stack it to ridiculous degree, then ban hammer fell random on ppl for nothing, some ppl got banned for using it just once (the right way), others were gloating they lvled to max and didn't get a ban, blizz history of 'ban punish' is recorded for being sh8t, they rarely ban the right ppl for right action
    Why ban here and not ban ppl who abused the Tool of the Trade bug and made enough potions for end of history? At least this bug doesn't lead to insane unfair wealth ppl got fro tool of trade bug, just a boost in gear that will last very short anyway since this is last patch

    - - - Updated - - -


    i did read the cnn article and nothing in it says that if bank make a mistake in my account, they can close it
    And according to ur article they can't terminate a legal right account that obeys law, they have to have reason to terminate it or else the bank is f8cked up when u sue them for stopping ur legally approved documented work, u have to be first in highly risk job and not have explanation for your actions on that account
    Here it is blizz action that is f8cked up not urs, if bank give u key access to a vault that has 5 diamonds and tell u that u can take whatever u want in that vault (and all that is recorded and proved) and they forget it has 5 diamonds then u take them, literally no one can make u at fault
    If the bank tell u clearly to not take the 5 diamonds but u can do whatever u want (watch paint dry or whatever) and u take them, they have the right to not just ban u but also sue u for ur clearly breaking agreement

    The agreement between us and blizz is we pay, we play what they offer, we aren't allowed to cheat
    This trade didn't use any extra tool to cheat, it used what the game provided to them, in a way that doesn't even seem to be a bug (did they even say it is a bug btw?), then ban hit without u even knowing why

    And I assure u if blizz think they are right by law they would take u to course and sue u, as they literally did in diablo before (check activision history with suing players, even EA didn't do that as far i know)
    For your first assertion, I would like to see proof of that. If there was a lawsuit, especially over something like that, it likely would have made headlines. I don't know how it works in Egypt, but in the US, a court would side with the company in almost every case. The employee knew full well that his pay is a certain amount. Seeing you were given double that amount, you would know it was a mistake. When the company reaches out to correct the issue, it is the employer's right to reclaim those wages.

    Furthermore, what we are discussing isn't Blizzard accidentally giving someone two drops of an item. We're talking about someone who found a flaw in the system and abused it, which is why my example was that of an employee who found a way to manipulate their companies system to make it pay them more than it should. They are worlds apart.

    Follow this to your next argument about a bank closing your account. You keep repeating this line "if they mess up", but the scenario under discussion presumes that you took advantage of that mistake. That's what makes it the issue. If the bank accidentally gives you some money, they aren't going to close your account. But if you find a flaw in their system that you take advantage of to try and get extra money, they will not only close your account, but they will press charges against you. On top of what the previous poster said, yes, a bank (in most countries) can just close your account at will, for whatever reason the deem fit.

    You try and compare the situation to a bank giving you a key to a vault, and telling you that you can take whatever you want. That's still not even remotely close to anything in WoW. You expressly agree when playing wow that you will not abuse bugs or flaws in the system. Blizzard doesn't tell you "Hey, you can do whatever you want in WoW....oops, but not that". There are clear guidelines that specify restrictions with your access to the game. You don't have to use special cheat tools for you to violate that. Excess griefing doesn't require any tools, and it too is punishable.

    Lastly, Blizz do have the legal right here. It is their game that you are playing, and their rules you agreed to. You can argue that it's unfair, that it doesn't work like that in some other country, or you don't agree with their interpretation, but they have the final word on the matter.

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