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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    LOL DID YOU REALLY JUST COMPARE THIS TO DISAGREEING WITH SLAVERY?! Holy hell. Opinions absolutely can be wrong. Your opinion is a prime example of a WRONG opinion. If a player discovers a bug that allows them to do something they shouldn't and stop doing it, they're fine. People who notice they can do something they were NEVER ABLE TO DO BEFORE and keep doing it? They eat the ban hammer and deserve it. These are facts and not opinions.
    Comparing it to an opinion that you most likely agree with is a very good way to show you how your argument falls when the tables are turned. My opinion is clearly not popular in this thread. This is what happens - majority opinions oppress minority opinions. That does not make them "wrong." Yes, they deserve the ban hammer, because that is Blizzard's stance on banning players. It's not mine. My opinion is not wrong. It is counter to the authority's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Opinions are declarative statements based on beliefs. You can not have one with out the other. Of course everyone who went to college is not a doctor because there are multiple degrees. Just as not everything in the game is exploitative. You are the one that keeps making simple logical errors. Because declarative statements, which is what opinions are, can be both subjective and true or false. You are saying that they can only be subjective because some are. You are employing the very logical error you tried to apply to me.

    Also drawing a line at nothing is against the rules is still drawing the line at something. And of course your line is arbitrary because you are not defining an exploit as anything. You are just saying an exploit is impossible to exist because nothing is an exploit and everything is allowed to be done if it can be done. This also isn't an instance of a grey area with the EULA.

    "cheats; i.e. methods not expressly authorized by Blizzard, influencing and/or facilitating the gameplay, including exploits of any in-game bugs, and thereby granting you and/or any other user an advantage over other players not using such methods;" https://www.blizzard.com/en-us/legal...ense-agreement

    Using this method to gain more cores then one person is normally able to gain in a week is an exploit. There is no gray area. It is not subjective on if it is or is not against the rules.
    A statement of an opinion can be wrong, but the opinion cannot be wrong. If I say "I think red is the best color," that is a false statement, because I don't think that. An opinion and statement are two different things.

    My opinion is against this - my opinion is this does NOT constitute as a "cheat."

    We are not arguing whether or not Blizzard CAN ban these players. We are arguing whether they SHOULD. You agree with the tos/eula. I don't. We disagree. I am not wrong. You are not wrong. I am not right. You are not right. These are our opinions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    And then get banned for being a smartass. You know full well what was meant.

    Real world laws work the same way, by the way. They have to be made publically available, but they don't have to be announced to you, specificially. Not knowing the law is no defense against it.
    Yes, but if a police officer sends me a letter, using official means, saying that I can park my car in front of the fire extinguisher in front of my house, you can safely bet that if I do there will be ZERO legal repercussions. Conflicting messages mean the person is not at fault - the writer of the messages is at fault.

    It's obviously not a good situation to be in, and the goal is to continue moving forward for both parties - but this is not a case of where punitive measures should take place since the authority is at fault.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetdeal View Post
    My friend has ~ 10 cores traded and not banned, I guess they dont give a real fuck. Mostly only to people who did this 20+times
    Did she apply them or are they just sitting in her bags? It's probably just easier for Blizz to search for total corruption resistance than how many cores someone has in bags.

  2. #362
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    A statement of an opinion can be wrong, but the opinion cannot be wrong. If I say "I think red is the best color," that is a false statement, because I don't think that. An opinion and statement are two different things.
    Then it isn't your opinion if you don't think that. A statement of an opinion is still just an opinion. There are subjective opinions that are based on things like taste. "Sushi is awesome" and "Sushi is gross" neither is wrong because they are based on subjective things. But there are opinions that are based around verifiably true and false statements like "Apples are oranges". You can have the opinion that apples are oranges but it is a wrong opinion.

    You are not wrong for having an opinion but your opinion can be wrong. Of course Blizzard should ban the players because they violated the rules. And of course you agree with the EULA because every player agrees to it whether they like them or not. So it is a moot discussion.

    Also if I am not wrong then why have you spent several pages and posts telling me that I am wrong at several points? Why are you even wasting time discussing something that no one can be right or wrong at? What is your goal, to troll? To be disruptive?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  3. #363
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Then it isn't your opinion if you don't think that. A statement of an opinion is still just an opinion. There are subjective opinions that are based on things like taste. "Sushi is awesome" and "Sushi is gross" neither is wrong because they are based on subjective things. But there are opinions that are based around verifiably true and false statements like "Apples are oranges". You can have the opinion that apples are oranges but it is a wrong opinion.

    You are not wrong for having an opinion but your opinion can be wrong. Of course Blizzard should ban the players because they violated the rules. And of course you agree with the EULA because every player agrees to it whether they like them or not. So it is a moot discussion.

    Also if I am not wrong then why have you spent several pages and posts telling me that I am wrong at several points? Why are you even wasting time discussing something that no one can be right or wrong at? What is your goal, to troll? To be disruptive?
    "Apples are oranges" is not an opinion. It is a statement (based on a belief, not opinion). It is wrong. "Apples should be the same as oranges" is an opinion that cannot be proven wrong.

    Players don't have to agree with the message behind the EULA, they just agree to the terms of the EULA. Saying every player agrees with the EULA is like saying every American agrees with what President Trump says. Just because you allow something, doesn't mean you agree with it.

    The only thing you've been wrong at is saying that my opinion is wrong. Because opinions can't be wrong. My goal is to defend myself and educate others.

  4. #364
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    "Apples are oranges" is not an opinion. It is a statement (based on a belief, not opinion). It is wrong. "Apples should be the same as oranges" is an opinion that cannot be proven wrong.
    Opinions are statements based on a belief. You can't have an opinion on something if you don't make a statement about your belief. Because then it wouldn't be your opinion. This is you flip flopping. Beliefs are opinions when you are trying to prove yourself correct but beliefs are not opinions when it proves you incorrect. Also it can be proven wrong that apples should be the same as oranges because of planet genetics and science. They are completely different families so they wouldn't be the same. So congratulations you have a false opinion and it was just proven wrong. But you'll flip flop and move the goal posts to remain right.

    You agree to the terms in order to play. You don't have to like it. But you still agree to be bound by those rules. Anyone who breaks those rules should be subject to punishment. The severity of that punishment depends on intent and manner of breaking the rules. But if my opinion is that you opinion is wrong then according to your argument I am right and not wrong. Yet here you are stating I am wrong simply because you have to remain right in whatever you post.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Opinions are statements based on a belief. You can't have an opinion on something if you don't make a statement about your belief. Because then it wouldn't be your opinion. This is you flip flopping. Beliefs are opinions when you are trying to prove yourself correct but beliefs are not opinions when it proves you incorrect. Also it can be proven wrong that apples should be the same as oranges because of planet genetics and science. They are completely different families so they wouldn't be the same. So congratulations you have a false opinion and it was just proven wrong. But you'll flip flop and move the goal posts to remain right.

    You agree to the terms in order to play. You don't have to like it. But you still agree to be bound by those rules. Anyone who breaks those rules should be subject to punishment. The severity of that punishment depends on intent and manner of breaking the rules. But if my opinion is that you opinion is wrong then according to your argument I am right and not wrong. Yet here you are stating I am wrong simply because you have to remain right in whatever you post.
    Opinions are based on beliefs. Some beliefs can be proven wrong. If the belief can be proven wrong, it cannot be part of an opinion. This is why "Apples are oranges" is not an opinion. It might be your belief, which is incorrect, but the statement does not make an opinion. Therefore, there are no incorrect opinions. "Apples should be oranges" is an opinion based on a belief. This belief cannot be proven wrong. Apples are scientifically different than oranges. That doesn't make the statement "Apples should be oranges" false. Again - they are not the same. But if my opinion is that they SHOULD be the same, that is not incorrect. I don't see how you don't see this.

    No - according to my argument, your opinion can never be right. Are you even reading what I am writing? You are only wrong because you are stating that my opinion is wrong - it can't be. Your opinion is not wrong. You are.

  6. #366
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    Comparing it to an opinion that you most likely agree with is a very good way to show you how your argument falls when the tables are turned. My opinion is clearly not popular in this thread. This is what happens - majority opinions oppress minority opinions. That does not make them "wrong." Yes, they deserve the ban hammer, because that is Blizzard's stance on banning players. It's not mine. My opinion is not wrong. It is counter to the authority's.

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    A statement of an opinion can be wrong, but the opinion cannot be wrong. If I say "I think red is the best color," that is a false statement, because I don't think that. An opinion and statement are two different things.

    My opinion is against this - my opinion is this does NOT constitute as a "cheat."

    We are not arguing whether or not Blizzard CAN ban these players. We are arguing whether they SHOULD. You agree with the tos/eula. I don't. We disagree. I am not wrong. You are not wrong. I am not right. You are not right. These are our opinions.

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    Yes, but if a police officer sends me a letter, using official means, saying that I can park my car in front of the fire extinguisher in front of my house, you can safely bet that if I do there will be ZERO legal repercussions. Conflicting messages mean the person is not at fault - the writer of the messages is at fault.

    It's obviously not a good situation to be in, and the goal is to continue moving forward for both parties - but this is not a case of where punitive measures should take place since the authority is at fault.

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    Did she apply them or are they just sitting in her bags? It's probably just easier for Blizz to search for total corruption resistance than how many cores someone has in bags.
    Using the phrase "opinions can't be wrong" is both wrong in of itself as well as a logical fallacy. As expressed by multiple people, there are quite a few situations where an opinion can be wrong. This is one of those situations. You are absolutely wrong in your opinion that players shouldn't be punished for exploiting bugs.

  7. #367
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Using the phrase "opinions can't be wrong" is both wrong in of itself as well as a logical fallacy. As expressed by multiple people, there are quite a few situations where an opinion can be wrong. This is one of those situations. You are absolutely wrong in your opinion that players shouldn't be punished for exploiting bugs.
    This is wrong.

  8. #368
    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnusthegreat View Post
    This is wrong.
    Lmao no it really isn't. The ToS was written, saying you will be punished for using exploits and bugs. You AGREED to the ToS when you started playing the game. To say Blizzard shouldn't punish people is just showing that you have total disregard for the rules set in place for the game and think you should get away with whatever you want. This is just one of many opinions you are absolutely wrong about.

  9. #369
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    This thread is not about the semantics of what is or isn't an opinion or correct, and it's not about racism. Return to the actual topic of the thread.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRevenantHero View Post
    Lmao no it really isn't. The ToS was written, saying you will be punished for using exploits and bugs. You AGREED to the ToS when you started playing the game. To say Blizzard shouldn't punish people is just showing that you have total disregard for the rules set in place for the game and think you should get away with whatever you want. This is just one of many opinions you are absolutely wrong about.
    Sure, if you want to never again see any "legends" being made ingame with insanely funny exploits...
    Lets all just behave and be robots and sheeps...just like a good boy.

  11. #371
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Sure, if you want to never again see any "legends" being made ingame with insanely funny exploits...
    Lets all just behave and be robots and sheeps...just like a good boy.
    The thing is though Blizzard usually doesn't take action for a "one time" thing that makes someone a legend in your eyes. The mage that cleared the Military wing didn't get in trouble because he found something. But because they exploited it for advancing the progress/gear of the guild. There is nothing wrong with following the rules. It is contradictory to have an attitude like yours yet also balk at any punishment you may have.

    If you want to be the "bad boy" as you call it then shouldn't you also be perfectly fine with the repercussions of breaking the rules?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The thing is though Blizzard usually doesn't take action for a "one time" thing that makes someone a legend in your eyes. The mage that cleared the Military wing didn't get in trouble because he found something. But because they exploited it for advancing the progress/gear of the guild. There is nothing wrong with following the rules. It is contradictory to have an attitude like yours yet also balk at any punishment you may have.

    If you want to be the "bad boy" as you call it then shouldn't you also be perfectly fine with the repercussions of breaking the rules?
    I highly doubt those accusations the guy tried to feed loot to his guild.
    We are talking about the same guy who did 2 man Loatheb.
    The raid was piss easy. Why in the world would anyone need "help" to clear naxxramas in wrath? Thats the stupidest thing ive ever heard

    If he did..it was for the lolz im pretty sure

    Because there is no such thing as "progression" in Wrath Naxx.
    You enter the instance, you kill the cat...and then you kill all bosses.

    But why am i a "bad boy" for being a smartass in a videogame? Its a videogame...the very first thing a gamer tries in every game is to exploit it.
    Be it by making a "build" or picking the "rocket launcher" to one shot mobs...its the very first thing we do.
    Why ban hammer? Just to prove a point and to spread fear ofcourse...keep things under control.
    I guess i understand
    Last edited by Shadoowpunk; 2020-03-27 at 11:59 PM.

  13. #373
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    I highly doubt those accusations the guy tried to feed loot to his guild.
    You can doubt it all you want. It is what happen and why he received a ban. There was still progression, and gearing up, in WotLK. There is no reason to deny basic things.

    You used the term good boy. The opposite of that is bad boy. Just because something is a video game doesn't mean it doesn't have rules and that those rules should be followed. Not every gamer tries to exploit and break the rules. You have an over inflated sense of gaming. If you don't understand why punish for breaking rules then there isn't much to discuss. That is what happens with rules.

    They don't enforce rules to spread fear. They enforce them because those are the rules of the game. I can't just knock the King off a chess board because it is against the rules. You are arguing I should be allowed to do so because all is fair and rules are meant to be broken.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Sure, if you want to never again see any "legends" being made ingame with insanely funny exploits...
    Lets all just behave and be robots and sheeps...just like a good boy.
    There is SO MUCH you can do in the game that's incredible that doesn't require exploits or bugs. I really have absolutely no sympathy for people who get banned after blatantly breaching the ToS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    I highly doubt those accusations the guy tried to feed loot to his guild.
    We are talking about the same guy who did 2 man Loatheb.
    The raid was piss easy. Why in the world would anyone need "help" to clear naxxramas in wrath? Thats the stupidest thing ive ever heard

    If he did..it was for the lolz im pretty sure

    Because there is no such thing as "progression" in Wrath Naxx.
    You enter the instance, you kill the cat...and then you kill all bosses.

    But why am i a "bad boy" for being a smartass in a videogame? Its a videogame...the very first thing a gamer tries in every game is to exploit it.
    Be it by making a "build" or picking the "rocket launcher" to one shot mobs...its the very first thing we do.
    Why ban hammer? Just to prove a point and to spread fear ofcourse...keep things under control.
    I guess i understand
    To address THIS comment, exploiting bugs in SINGLE PLAYER games is fine. When you do it in an MMO, you are fucking with the experience for other players too.

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    ???
    Could you tell me what suspensions are?
    cause from my understanding bans and suspensions are literally the exact same thing...
    People use these terms too interchangeably these days. Banning is meant to be an indefinite thing, while a Suspension is meant to be a finite thing. I'm assuming people are getting permanently suspended for this - but maybe not? I hadn't looked too deeply into it, just seeing what people have said and a ban for this seems, extreme. Although if it's on their tally system where you keep abusing things, then I can understand that.
    "Your name was stolen? I see... Well, I guess that happens from time to time..."


  16. #376
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinChan View Post
    People use these terms too interchangeably these days. Banning is meant to be an indefinite thing, while a Suspension is meant to be a finite thing. I'm assuming people are getting permanently suspended for this - but maybe not? I hadn't looked too deeply into it, just seeing what people have said and a ban for this seems, extreme. Although if it's on their tally system where you keep abusing things, then I can understand that.
    No, people are only getting perma banned if this is like their fourth ban

    every time you break the rules you get a bigger and bigger punishment the next time, thats what they do.
    people who are geting perma banned for this, have been banned time and time again before.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    survey says, that was a lie.[Q
    No, it's not a lie. Why would I lie to you? I don't even play WoW any more. But my account was perma banned in WoD. The vague reason they gave was "Automated gameplay" or something, and the only cheating I had done was a fishing bot.

  18. #378
    Quote Originally Posted by Treys View Post
    No, it's not a lie. Why would I lie to you? I don't even play WoW any more. But my account was perma banned in WoD. The vague reason they gave was "Automated gameplay" or something, and the only cheating I had done was a fishing bot.
    lol... that's botting aka automated gameplay...

  19. #379
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetdeal View Post
    My friend has ~ 10 cores traded and not banned, I guess they dont give a real fuck. Mostly only to people who did this 20+times
    Armory link pls, because my friend has done it 40 times and is not banned!

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Armory link pls, because my friend has done it 40 times and is not banned!
    why would anyone give a link to someone who has exploited so you can report them?

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