Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #41
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,128
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Yeh, that could work.

    If blood elves can work on the horde, so can night elves. Night elves are both more advanced and more savage than blood elves. They are more intesne..becuse they're supposed to be the original elf, so less human - which means immortal, more magical, more different. This allows them to be able to be more palletable to the horde than the high elves ever were in the first place.
    I feel like this alternative path makes more sense if you want to focus on the path of least resistance, but it isn't as "interesting" as the set pieces we got. As cringe as some of those were, the current campy style is wow's MO and main appeal.
    Moderator of the General Off-Topic, Politics, Lore, and RP Forums
    "If you have any concerns, let me know via PM. I'll do my best to assist you."

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    I feel like this alternative path makes more sense if you want to focus on the path of least resistance, but it isn't as "interesting" as the set pieces we got. As cringe as some of those were, the current campy style is wow's MO and main appeal.
    Certainl ynot as suprrsiing as the ones we got.. face it, if the lroe was the only consieration, we'd never have blood elves on the horde. but it wasn't, and instead of given horde humans, they made the blood elves, the humanised elf group the equivalent on the horde.

    It is also quite interesting. But 4 factions woudl have been the most interesting.

  3. #43
    The orcs killed Cenarius, I really don't see it.

    Them "purifying" the orcs similar to the worgen? Seems even sillier. They've been freed of that ever since Mannoroth died, everything else is their own darn fault.

    Blood elves were Horde material since WC3 with everything that happened with Kael'thas.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  4. #44
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,128
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    The orcs killed Cenarius, I really don't see it.

    Them "purifying" the orcs similar to the worgen? Seems even sillier. They've been freed of that ever since Mannoroth died, everything else is their own darn fault.

    Blood elves were Horde material since WC3 with everything that happened with Kael'thas.
    The idea is based off of re-writing their interactions, since that's the premise of this thread. If you wanted to picture them on the Horde, you'd have to first think of how certain events would need to change to make this possible. And to clarify I wasn't talking about having NEs purify the orcs like worgen, since that doesn't even make sense. The point is that this plot element (assisting a race in their hour of need) can be utilized to elsewhere. By having some NE characters get involved with the founding of the new Horde, both groups can come closer towards mutual understanding.

    In the end, having them on the Horde would result in a very different Azeroth. I actually think faction warfare would be even more hostile.
    Moderator of the General Off-Topic, Politics, Lore, and RP Forums
    "If you have any concerns, let me know via PM. I'll do my best to assist you."

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post


    i do agree that wc3 made me fit most 4 factions instead of the 2 we got
    but the game won't work with 4 factions, they weren't expecting even 1/10 of wow success, imagine just 200k player over 4 factions trying to do 40 men raid, that would been impossible
    forsaken are boring typical evil, but that's how they were in wc3, we can't claim they were changed, nelfs on other hand got the worst treatment when they jumped from wc3 to wow, they lost a lot of their identity (no fairie dragons, no chimera, etc), and are set as support for the 'amazing' human leaders who even if they do mistake still lead a faction of 250 years old, 10k+ years old, a literal f8cking IMMORTALS old, but hey the 16 year old Anduin of course has more experience than Tyrande, because he is human and humans are amazing
    I know people say the game wouldn't work with 4 factions, but is that honestly true? Sure the game as designed with 2 factions in mind. But what exactly would work.. pvp? grouping? guilding?

    Surely solutions for those things could be found.. for example, night elf and alliance faction playser could have been allowed to group and guild, while forsaken and horde faction players the same - despite their factions being unfriendly or neutral at best with each other.

    ESO did do the 4 faction thing, and they have a lot less players than wow and their lore and feel is not as enjoyable or heavily stylised as warcraft's.

    But you are right about night elves having a sense of losing their identity. They didn't really, but their lack of development only showing them passively has ruined the impression most people have of them. no effort to show them active in their own customs. It took 6 years from release to give the 1st advancement to the night elf story. With no race related activity in the first 2 expansions (only class related ones).

    It took 10 years from WC3 before we started seeing the arcane return to them, which should have hpapend straight after WC3 (but I can understand a little bit more time passing)

    It took 15 years before we actually saw night elf units in traditional gear from the classic box art and WC3 - 15

    It took 14 before we saw the Wardens in action or doing anything really,

    It took 14 years to see the first pristine night elf civilization city, after being teased with ruins forever

    It took 15 years to see a cinematic of the night elf civilization (warbringers Azshara)

    It took 14 years for us to have a proper presentation fo night elf society and ancient civilization (from Azsuna and Suramar) and to see the full variety of night elf life.

    It took 14 years for Tyrande to actually play a significant role in like, anything.



    You get the idea.. they've mostly been ignored, with token appearances when alliance is doing stuff.. this has led to the impression they've been humanised, but they actually haven't been, they've just been ignored as blizzard has focused on the humans. When they eventually got to the ngiht elves in legion and in BFA, we see far more of the race come out that has their own signature.

    WE see the ferocity of the demon hunters, wardens and ferals, we see the great magic capability of the highborne, Nightborne and Moonguard, we see the breadth of the variety in the druids in val'sharah, and we even see the stalwart stoic heroism and nobility of the kaldorei generals in the historic Balck rook hold.

    We see night elves highly civilized, highly fierce and capable, we see their moon and star culture, society and magic in Suramar and Moonguard stronghold, their history etc..we also see the Chimera, Giants, and the forest rising up to fight in the WoT pre quell.


    their main problem? neglect.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    The idea is based off of re-writing their interactions, since that's the premise of this thread. If you wanted to picture them on the Horde, you'd have to first think of how certain events would need to change to make this possible. And to clarify I wasn't talking about having NEs purify the orcs like worgen, since that doesn't even make sense. The point is that this plot element (assisting a race in their hour of need) can be utilized to elsewhere. By having some NE characters get involved with the founding of the new Horde, both groups can come closer towards mutual understanding.

    In the end, having them on the Horde would result in a very different Azeroth. I actually think faction warfare would be even more hostile.
    If it requires retconning everything all the way back to their first introduction in WC3 when they were defending their forests against orcish intrusion it's hard to even call them night elves anymore. They'd be Elf Variant #147.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  7. #47
    Moderator Rozz's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,128
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    If it requires retconning everything all the way back to their first introduction in WC3 when they were defending their forests against orcish intrusion it's hard to even call them night elves anymore. They'd be Elf Variant #147.
    Not really. I stated in my original comment that the conflict can still remain, all you have to do is to include more characters or remember that NEs and Cenarius are also known for being very compassionate. It's the equivalent of proposing more interactions that orcs have had with humans and draenei. Also this entire thread is about speculation over alternative lore. I think recon is sort of the point?
    Moderator of the General Off-Topic, Politics, Lore, and RP Forums
    "If you have any concerns, let me know via PM. I'll do my best to assist you."

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilithvia View Post
    Really? Beautifully built, artistic structures compare to mud huts?
    Have you even listened to their music?
    Night Elves were considered savage in Wc3 because they were isolationist and attacked interlopers on their land. They were extremely similar to Trolls, especially in the way they fought, stealth, hit and run, etc. When compared to the descriptions of trolls we've gotten, hide in trees, ambush units and disappear.

    Night Elves were considered savage, as in bloodthirsty/unpredictable not savage as in uncivilized.

  9. #49
    Banned Lilithvia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    No matter the topic, someone will find a way to redirect it to complain about their current aggro.
    Posts
    3,116
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    Night Elves were considered savage in Wc3 because they were isolationist and attacked interlopers on their land. They were extremely similar to Trolls, especially in the way they fought, stealth, hit and run, etc. When compared to the descriptions of trolls we've gotten, hide in trees, ambush units and disappear.

    Night Elves were considered savage, as in bloodthirsty/unpredictable not savage as in uncivilized.
    I mean, you've got a giant forest. Guerrilla warfare is among the best forms of warfare in that kind of setting.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilithvia View Post
    I mean, you've got a giant forest. Guerrilla warfare is among the best forms of warfare in that kind of setting.
    Yes, but troll behavior was considered savage, and NE behavior is very similar. It's why they were considered "savage".

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    I mean the part where in WoD retcons that you no longer need demons to bloodlust
    Well, the orcs were always a violent people who could go into bloodrages during battle. But the bloodlust from drinking the blood was an entirely different beast. I'm not sure where you're seeing a retcon.
    "Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer." Powerogue 2019

  12. #52
    Banned Lilithvia's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Location
    No matter the topic, someone will find a way to redirect it to complain about their current aggro.
    Posts
    3,116
    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    Yes, but troll behavior was considered savage, and NE behavior is very similar. It's why they were considered "savage".
    Axes and chopping off heads and scalps versus arrows, glaives, and soldiers wearing rather standard-issue armors, filling standardized roles.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilithvia View Post
    Axes and chopping off heads and scalps versus arrows, glaives, and soldiers wearing rather standard-issue armors, filling standardized roles.
    Not to mention cannabalism, blood drinking practices, extinguishing life to feed their own power etc, sacrifices of other sentients in most troll groups.

    The night elves would find the trolls very savage and very disgusting with those practices.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Lilithvia View Post
    Axes and chopping off heads and scalps versus arrows, glaives, and soldiers wearing rather standard-issue armors, filling standardized roles.
    Again, you are talking about Night Elves as they are written now, not as they were introduced or as they were in WC3.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    The ending of campaign suggests that all the races in Kalimdor will now work together to protect Hyjal. There is a possibility that orcs and Jaina would join the night elves with them being the leaders.

    - - - Updated - - -



    They are both savage. The difference is that night elves became savage for purpose.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Horde has too beautifully built structures. Have you seen Blackrock Foundry and Hellfire Citadel?

    - - - Updated - - -



    Exactly. Zandalari and Gorian Empire are above Tyrande culturally.

    - - - Updated - - -



    But what about the opposite? What if Jaina and Thrall pledged their loyalty to Tyrande?
    The only time they are called Savage is in regards to their fighting style afaik.

  16. #56
    Banned Highelf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Location
    #Garithoswasright
    Posts
    1,596
    Half of the races that are in the horde should never of been in as it doesn't make any sense. Especially now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by StillMcfuu View Post
    Yes, but troll behavior was considered savage, and NE behavior is very similar. It's why they were considered "savage".
    I completely disagree.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    When C'thun unleashes his invasion with the Qiraji, it's possible that the Orc and Night Elf combined forces would be overwhelming to the Old Gods, forcing them to re-prioritize their efforts to try and hinder or otherwise corrupt Night Elves and Orcs. With the Orcs and Night Elves basically keeping to themselves in Kalimdor and with the Orcs on a far less friendly set of affairs to the Humans, it's less likely that the Night Elves or Orcs would have lent aid as early to stop the Scourge forces of Naxxramas before it became a much bigger problem and ended up threatening more of the world. The Lich King by extension would probably sour any remaining inkling of hope for peace between the combined Night Elf and Orc forces to the Humans. And, assuming Humanity isn't wiped out by the Scourge it's possible that the Night Elves and Orcs may even finish them off to prevent something like the Lich King from happening again. Yet, without Humanity the Night Elves and Orcs wouldn't have the might of Tirion Fordring for the eventual needed crusade to dismantle the Lich King. However, with the immortality of the Night Elves intact it's possible that they would overwhelm the Lich King's undead forces.

    With the Scourge having more reign over the Eastern Kingdoms earlier, it's possible that Quel'thalas and Undercity could have fallen to the Scourge before the Night Elves and Orcs got around to helping. Though, it's also possible that maybe Illidan's conflict with Arthas may spur the Night Elves and Orcs into early action against the Lich King as well.
    Overall a great read, but one thing doesn't really make sense to me. How does the Night Elves joining the Orcs influence the Scourge taking over Lordaeron? As far as I know, neither orcs nor night elves did anything on Lordaeron. Arthas was pushed out of Lordaeron by Sylvanas and the forsaken and they were helped by Garithos and the remaining humans. Tyrande, Malfurion and Maiev came some time after that in the pursuit of Illidan?

    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    ESO did do the 4 faction thing, and they have a lot less players than wow and their lore and feel is not as enjoyable or heavily stylised as warcraft's.
    What are you talking about? Elder Scrolls lore is literally superb!
    Also doesn't ESO have 3 factions?


    That being said, I do believe that having 4 factions would have helped the overall stories, especially since Nelves and Forsaken feel really shoehorned into the alliance and the horde.
    Night elves would have their own faction, the sentinels, and mostly be neutral, and the Forsaken would also be mostly neutral, but to a lesser extent.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    Yeh, that could work.

    If blood elves can work on the horde, so can night elves. Night elves are both more advanced and more savage than blood elves. They are more intesne..becuse they're supposed to be the original elf, so less human - which means immortal, more magical, more different. This allows them to be able to be more palletable to the horde than the high elves ever were in the first place.
    I don't see it tbh. Horde is all about destruction while nelves are all about preservation and protection. There's no race further away from the Horde than the nelves. Especially after Teldrassil I could not imagine how the nelves would ever join the Horde. Not to mention orcs and blood elves would heavily object while tauren would probably be happy

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    I don't see it tbh. Horde is all about destruction while nelves are all about preservation and protection. There's no race further away from the Horde than the nelves. Especially after Teldrassil I could not imagine how the nelves would ever join the Horde. Not to mention orcs and blood elves would heavily object while tauren would probably be happy
    But is the horde all about destruction though? Would have been one thing if it was like the Empire in SwtOR, so you knew it's theme an you could be an exception or the worse of the lot if you wanted to.

    THe horde has been a bunch of misfits, a dictaorship, a force of annhiilation, but also always contained raecs that werne't that homicidal minded - i mean the Tauren aren't, and the blood evles although they became a lto ore reckless aren't the destroy eveyrthing type either. ORcs wre supposed to have found redemption, but we know they have a blood lust and they love a fight. Trolls - well they've been depicted as violent, cruel and the pick a fight type and defintiely the conquering type. Goblins are all aobut profit - ti's such amixed bg.

    ONe minute they're about desrcution next minute they're not. I guess the night elves would not have fit into the whole Garrosh or Sylvanas lead.

    but, if the night elves were on the horde, wanna bet the character of the horde would have been different? They were a huge race in wc3, and while they fit more into the alliance and thuswuld not have changed it much, they could also have fit in the horde but would have defined it if it had happened early on.

    maybe that's why they weren't put there. All in all, they fit best as their own faction. They're a huge race in terms of lore and diversity. Even if greatly outnumbered by humans or orcs, their skuill and power as well as magical acument would have easily made up for their reduced numbers. If you added Worgen and Draenei to them.

  20. #60
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    939
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    I don't see it tbh. Horde is all about destruction while nelves are all about preservation and protection. There's no race further away from the Horde than the nelves. Especially after Teldrassil I could not imagine how the nelves would ever join the Horde. Not to mention orcs and blood elves would heavily object while tauren would probably be happy
    I meant in the first place like starting from Classic. Also since the Night Elves sabotaging Ghostlands were under the Horde, the Blood Elves would most likely be Alliance again
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •