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  1. #81
    I am Murloc! Velshin's Avatar
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    Kil'jaeden for me. He was the master mind behind the corruption of the orcs race, and the one who created the Lich king. I just didn't like him at the end when he showed some remorse and sadness. I would love him much more if he died like Archimonde, evil to the very end with no regrets at all.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Archimonde does not fit that trope. He joined Sargeras simply because he wanted more power. Kil'jaeden fits that trope a lot more, since he joined Sargeras because he was misguided and genuinely believed it was the only way. Also don't know why you mention Kel'thuzad, he was never a tragic villain.

    Also not really. Gul'dan, the Old Gods, Xe'ra, the Iron Horde, and most of BfA villains (Ashvane, Zul, Azshara, etc.) are not fallen heroes.
    You are right, yet, i was more referring to the main villains in World of Warcraft. Arthas. Illidan. Kil Jaeden. The Lich King. Deathwing. Garrosh. Sargeras. Sylvanas.

  3. #83
    Pandaren Monk Tyrannica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post


    Because he is a sidekick, his entire journey is sidekick to LK, and his success tribute to more success to LK
    KT is no sidekick! Are you high? He is the main villain and endboss of vanilla wow! If he is a sidekick, KJ, Arthas, DW, etc are sidekicks!

  4. #84
    Immortal sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrannica View Post
    KT is no sidekick! Are you high? He is the main villain and endboss of vanilla wow! If he is a sidekick, KJ, Arthas, DW, etc are sidekicks!
    classic had no main story, more of random quests here and there that end anywhere
    And no he is sidekick because he describe himself as sidekick btw, check his own biography before u consider it an insult
    Arthas turned on LK making him as main villain, Deathwing was lunatic acting just to destroy everything and gain power (while old gods did empower him, he didn't really care to release them nor even worked for that, as shown in war of ancient trilogy he was used but wasn't following them), and KJ was leading Legion during Sargeras absence which lasted since pre wc1 days up to legion when he finally showed up, heck the entire BL attacks even during Legion were KJ plans, Sargeras was basically sneaking to surprise rape azeroth (but failed in end)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Velshin View Post
    Kil'jaeden for me. He was the master mind behind the corruption of the orcs race, and the one who created the Lich king. I just didn't like him at the end when he showed some remorse and sadness. I would love him much more if he died like Archimonde, evil to the very end with no regrets at all.
    I agree
    I find that idea stupid, minor annoyance
    Not every villain need to be 3d, right now i can't think of anyone beside Garithos who was just evil for being evil (and even Garithos was just racist, not real evil since he did try to save Lordearon from scourge/demonic invasion)
    Technically old gods are just pure 'evil' but they are more of just pure corruption and they don't show any sign of being sentient entities, just force of nature who exist to corrupt and have no other choice, u can't call a tiger evil because he kills to eat
    The beginning of wisdom is the statement 'I do not know.' The person who cannot make that statement is one who will never learn anything. And I have prided myself on my ability to learn
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  5. #85
    Pandaren Monk Tyrannica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam86 View Post
    classic had no main story, more of random quests here and there that end anywhere
    And no he is sidekick because he describe himself as sidekick btw, check his own biography before u consider it an insult
    Arthas turned on LK making him as main villain, Deathwing was lunatic acting just to destroy everything and gain power (while old gods did empower him, he didn't really care to release them nor even worked for that, as shown in war of ancient trilogy he was used but wasn't following them), and KJ was leading Legion during Sargeras absence which lasted since pre wc1 days up to legion when he finally showed up, heck the entire BL attacks even during Legion were KJ plans, Sargeras was basically sneaking to surprise rape azeroth (but failed in end)


    I admit you would have a point here, if this discussion would be about lore only and how it was presented in the game and the books.

    But read the op post more carefully and try to understand:

    I'm not necessarily interested in lore or role play reasons, but more in 'gameplay' reasons, it is to say, the manner in which the villain was depicted and interacted with inside the medium of World of Warcraft.
    From a pure gameplay PoV, KT was in no way a sidekick anything else was - in vanilla. The game ended with him and he and his raid were one of the most hardest to beat.


    If we go back in time, before Wotlk existed, can this really be argued?

    From a lore PoV, he might have presented himself just as a servant of the LK and later Arthas, who does not like to be in the spotlight. However, his power is pretty unmatched early on in wc3 and vanilla wow.

    Only Gul'dan and KT managed to open a portal large enough to summon archimonde and the legion.(ingame)

    Thats a pretty badass feat on itself.

    And then people say Garrosh....uh. He did achieve nothing at all and died meaningless on draenor.

    And thats all ingame not some external sources.
    Last edited by Tyrannica; 2020-04-01 at 01:59 PM.

  6. #86
    Pit Lord Cidzor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andonais View Post
    Van Cleef because he was right
    I admit that I always felt bad about killing him (even before we learned that his young daughter was watching when we murdered and fucking beheaded him). Maybe it doesn't excuse some of the things he did, but he got screwed and was a cool guy before that happened.
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  7. #87
    Deathwing, Azshara, and the LK were the villains with the most potential for a nuanced story in my opinion; but their depictions were all ultimately butt-fumbled.

    Even though he was far from perfect, I'd have to say that Garrosh had the most interesting/impactful arc to me so far. His tenure as Warchief totally wrecked the trust that had been building between the two factions from WC3/Vanilla to WotLK, and that has continued to send ripples of conflict and mistrust throughout the factional relationships even into BfA. Not to mention that he caused similar divisions in the actual playerbase.

  8. #88
    Arthas and Illidan are tied, neck and neck. They're WoW's best villains and characters in general.

  9. #89
    Never been a big fan of Arthas Skywalker personally but Gul'dan is pretty good. I don't think WoW really has that great 'big bad guy' (Sargeras was never really too involved in the story until Legion when we stopped that threat) so I guess recurring ones like Kil'jaeden or Gul'dan feel cooler.

  10. #90
    Banned Rochana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Arthas and Illidan are tied, neck and neck. They're WoW's best villains and characters in general.
    Within the scope of WoW though?

    We hardly interacted with Illidan in WoW, and when we did he seemed to just be in some paranoid / megalomanic craze...

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Rochana View Post
    Within the scope of WoW though?

    We hardly interacted with Illidan in WoW, and when we did he seemed to just be in some paranoid / megalomanic craze...
    Good point, I guess I meant Warcraft in general. His best stuff is in the novels.

  12. #92
    Pandaren Monk Tyrannica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cidzor View Post
    I admit that I always felt bad about killing him (even before we learned that his young daughter was watching when we murdered and fucking beheaded him). Maybe it doesn't excuse some of the things he did, but he got screwed and was a cool guy before that happened.
    His death and beheading felt very wrong back in the days, even more wrong than hunting that innocent creature, Hogger, who wasn't that far away from westfall.

    Maybe we can do something for him in shadowlands, like getting into a better realm.

    Atonement quest. Vanessa could accompany us, too.(she was a follower in the rogue class hall back in legion)

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    Poor piggygirl. The most interesting and awesome villain the wow universe ever had.

    Such, convincing, villain speeches(in pig language, ofc) and plans, how she will dominate the world with her piglets. All in vain now.

    A canditate for an epic Maw Boss in SL, for sure.

  13. #93
    Over 9000! HighlordJohnstone's Avatar
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    Either the Lich King, or Sargeras.

  14. #94
    Lich King, maybe Ghuldan if we also count in his warbringers cinematic. Garrosh was from beginning to end shoehorned into the story to take a fall, everything he did was pretty much bad and the only thing that showed any semblance of positive streaks was just an accident that happened because Blizzard doesn't know how to do internal communication. He went from whiny bitch via heel turn to (horrendously incompetent) commander to orc (mecha) hitler, because contrived plot reasons.

    Worst one is Deathwing to me. He was turned from the clever schemer in the background into a mindless beast.
    Last edited by Haidaes; 2020-04-01 at 06:11 PM.
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  15. #95
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Arthas is literally the face of Warcraft for a reason. Hands down.
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  16. #96
    Lich King easily

    He kept testing us, taunting us and chasing us throughout the expansion. He’s the only one who have stayed end boss from the start to end of an expansion.

    Classic didnt have one true end boss. Illidan didnt feel in charge of Outland at all, and Garrosh was just a pawn

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