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  1. #1

  2. #2
    At least he didn't go golfing for the weekend before deciding to act.

  3. #3
    Bruh... that's communism.

  4. #4
    Is Trump trying to nationalize industry? Well, one more step into outright socialism for so-called conservatives.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knadra View Post
    Multiculturalism hurts and kills. This happened before Trump and it would be happening without him. Racism arises from a multicultural society. If we were monocultural, people would not see issues through the lens of race.
    This is a poster saying that people are at fault for being the victims of terrorism, because they are not white.

  5. #5
    Not going to mention that GM has said for a long time now that all they're waiting for is Trump's go ahead to start manufacturing? Or that Trump complained about GM not opening their Lordstown plant when, in fact, they had sold that off ages ago (which Trump already knew)?

    Trump can go fuck this "GO GO GO" attitude when HE is the reason everything is being delayed.

  6. #6
    Merely a Setback Sunseeker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Bruh... that's communism.
    Technically it's authoritarianism.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    People in cars cause accidents. Accidents in cars cause people.
    "That's my style; I like to kick 'em when they're down!"
    And thus I give you: MALE contraception!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Gabriel View Post
    Bruh... that's communism.
    There is a great irony in that the most fascist things he's done (since fascism is an economic theory, not a descriptor of mean spiritedness), he's done in no small part as a result of being yelled at to do it by people who routinely have been complaining he's a fascist.

    Quote Originally Posted by Benggaul View Post
    Not going to mention that GM has said for a long time now that all they're waiting for is Trump's go ahead to start manufacturing? Or that Trump complained about GM not opening their Lordstown plant when, in fact, they had sold that off ages ago (which Trump already knew)?

    Trump can go fuck this "GO GO GO" attitude when HE is the reason everything is being delayed.
    Trump's FDA did not enact the regulations that made it nearly impossible to get testing protocols approved, or actually made declaring a public health emergency actually slow down the process of getting new testing protocols approved. Likely neither did Obama's. It's a cumulative disaster.

    Just remember, every useful thing that any level of government - local, state, or federal - has done in the course of meeting this crisis has been an act of waiving, suspending, or removing some rule or regulation that left in place would make responding harder. That should be a lesson, but won't be.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Sunseeker View Post
    Technically it's authoritarianism.
    I don't want facts. I want to be emotional.

  9. #9
    Already proven that car manufacturers cannot produce ventilators. There is no point that a company that doesnt know how to produce safe ventilators, produces ventilators. They will just fail and people will die

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    Already proven that car manufacturers cannot produce ventilators. There is no point that a company that doesnt know how to produce safe ventilators, produces ventilators. They will just fail and people will die
    If they can retool by following schematics, they can. Cars are way more complex than ventilators.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    If they can retool by following schematics, they can. Cars are way more complex than ventilators.
    I’m sure those robot can be reprogrammed to make Ventilators.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    Already proven that car manufacturers cannot produce ventilators. There is no point that a company that doesnt know how to produce safe ventilators, produces ventilators. They will just fail and people will die
    Well, they are partnering with medical companies who do know how to make them. GM is partnering with a company called Ventec. They provide the space, resources and tools. It's still going to be more than a month or so to retool plants. This is something that needed to happen a month ago to be in time.

    Ford actually opened communications with GE Healthcare before the Whitehouse got around to this because they assumed it would be coming at some point.
    Last edited by Rukh; 2020-03-27 at 11:31 PM.
    While you live, shine / Have no grief at all / Life exists only for a short while / And time demands its toll.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    If they can retool by following schematics, they can. Cars are way more complex than ventilators.
    This is not how this works. First of all, you cannot just change an assembly line to whatever the hell you want.

    Medical equipment is also much more heavily regulated and needs to be fail proof. Yes, even more than cars. In Germany, all car manufacturers already tried and said it's probably not a good idea, because they cannot uphold the necessary standards.

    Germans build better cars.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukh View Post
    Well, they are partnering with medical companies who do know how to make them. GM is partnering with a company called Ventec. They provide the space, resources and tools. It's still going to be more than a month or so to retool plants. This is something that needed to happen a month ago to be in time.

    Ford actually opened communications with GE Healthcare before the Whitehouse got around to this because they assumed it would be coming at some point.
    This is an entirely different thing than building whole ventilators. They can provide space, tools, raw materials, they could 3D print parts etc.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by StayTuned View Post
    This is not how this works. First of all, you cannot just change an assembly line to whatever the hell you want.

    Medical equipment is also much more heavily regulated and needs to be fail proof. Yes, even more than cars. In Germany, all car manufacturers already tried and said it's probably not a good idea, because they cannot uphold the necessary standards.

    Germans build better cars.

    - - - Updated - - -



    This is an entirely different thing than building whole ventilators. They can provide space, tools, raw materials, they could 3D print parts etc.


    This is what the plan is however. GE and Ford will be providing machinery, plant space, workers, and the medical companies will be advising and doing whatever they need to do in order for it to work.
    While you live, shine / Have no grief at all / Life exists only for a short while / And time demands its toll.

  15. #15
    They were apparently asking about a billion dollars and another ridiculous demands before they did it. Trump basically told them to shove it, and keep in mind that he really didn't want to do this.
    "Life is one long series of problems to solve. The more you solve, the better a man you become.... Tribulations spawn in life and over and over again we must stand our ground and face them."

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by CostinR View Post
    They were apparently asking about a billion dollars and another ridiculous demands before they did it. Trump basically told them to shove it, and keep in mind that he really didn't want to do this.
    That's actually not that crazy. Ventilators can be upwards of 50k for the ICU type. If he orders 50,000 of them, that's about 2.5 billion dollars. So nevermind the cost of entirely retooling plants, paying for employees, lost opportunity not manufacturing vehicles, the actual production runs with all the other costs figured in for this many may be a billion dollars.
    Last edited by Rukh; 2020-03-28 at 12:10 AM.
    While you live, shine / Have no grief at all / Life exists only for a short while / And time demands its toll.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormdash View Post
    Trump's FDA did not enact the regulations that made it nearly impossible to get testing protocols approved, or actually made declaring a public health emergency actually slow down the process of getting new testing protocols approved. Likely neither did Obama's. It's a cumulative disaster.

    Just remember, every useful thing that any level of government - local, state, or federal - has done in the course of meeting this crisis has been an act of waiving, suspending, or removing some rule or regulation that left in place would make responding harder. That should be a lesson, but won't be.
    Are you high? they refused the test from the WHO, they blocked state and local government from using private labs to get testing going, they set standards for performing the tests very high because Trump didn't like the numbers going higher. It's been weeks since they promised a million tests will be performed in 7 days, that's some pretty high level revisionism you are engaging in.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    If they can retool by following schematics, they can. Cars are way more complex than ventilators.
    Sorry, they are what now? You're aware we're not talking about a fan or intubation, right?

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    Sorry, they are what now? You're aware we're not talking about a fan or intubation, right?
    Yes, I am and yes they are - most complex part is the microprocessor controlling it, rest is basically tubing and air pump. Modern car engines are controlled to the stupid level of control via their own microprocessors. You sure that the ventilator one is more complex? Listen, people, if anyone, then car factories are the best bet to retool what they have for mass production. They have the resources and space to do that, they will have guidance from medical companies together with full technical documentation (I assume that they will... Unless more stupidity happens via, say, patents...). It is not rocket science (almost 40 year old tech), but yes, it will take time.
    The only question I have is from where they will get microprocessors for the control of the device, those most likely are purpose-made and cant be replaced at will, even with software provided to the carmakers.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Yes, I am and yes they are - most complex part is the microprocessor controlling it, rest is basically tubing and air pump. Modern car engines are controlled to the stupid level of control via their own microprocessors. You sure that the ventilator one is more complex? Listen, people, if anyone, then car factories are the best bet to retool what they have for mass production. They have the resources and space to do that, they will have guidance from medical companies together with full technical documentation (I assume that they will... Unless more stupidity happens via, say, patents...). It is not rocket science (almost 40 year old tech), but yes, it will take time.
    The only question I have is from where they will get microprocessors for the control of the device, those most likely are purpose-made and cant be replaced at will, even with software provided to the carmakers.
    And I'm also sure car manufacturers are equipped to fabricate under sterile conditions and are capable of properly sterilizing their product, as well as fine-tuning and testing thinks like the Aerosol-dispensers that modern ventilators come with? Their employees are trained in the proper procedures to fabricate sterile equipment? Because an employee touching some of the tubing can kill a patient. Ensuring their gear isn't polluted by dust and microbes? Just saying.

    I'm not saying car manufacturers aren't good engineers, or that their work is easy. But there is a lot more to producing medical gear than just putting it together.

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