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  1. #201
    I am Murloc! Varodoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    I would care about the excited Scourge especially at the time Dalaran wasn't even reclaimed yet

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    Restless Scourge
    Extinction for Tuskarr, Drakkari, Human Trappers, Vrykul, Taunka, Bael'gun's Dwarves, Frostborne etc.
    Global flooding / rising sea levels that poses risk to Menethil Harbor, Darkshore, Theramore, Stormwind, etc.
    Unleash the Faceless Ones and maybe even Yogg'sarron himself (it's heavily implied by Bael'gun that Illidan awakened the Faceless Ones)
    Restless Scourge
    Possible damage to the Emerald Dream
    Possible madness of Malfurion due to trauma
    Restless Scourge

    I'm sure those will lead to the destruction of Azeroth

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    Orgrimm tossed the Alteraci aside and refused to uphold his end of the bargain with them
    Excited where? Lordaeron? They were already pushed to the east. And Dalaran was already reclaimed by Garithos and was being used as a shelter for refugees.

    I don't know what you are talking about with Orgrim and Alterac. What bargain did he refuse to uphold?
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-03-30 at 02:07 PM.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    They attacked a bunch of monstrous looking outlanders that still reeked of demon blood. And I was talking about after the Third War. The Warsong Outriders kept invading Ashenvale and waging war with the Silverwing Sentinels, even Thrall disagreed with their actions.
    Night elves joined Alliance. It is enough of reason to attack their territory.

    Compliant Sunreavers were imprisoned, while the ones that resisted were killed. Seems reasonable enough, especially after Jaina was betrayed by the Horde, yet again.
    Jaina betrayed the Horde and she got what she deserved. Unfortunately, she had to let off her emotions by killing some unarmed people who tried to run away.
    Goblins were in Silithus already at that time. It is also explicitly stated that Gallywix had his excavation before talking with Grizzek.
    Don't even know what to say here, except that mud huts exclusively belong to the Horde.
    Wildhammer Clan and Draenei would disagree.

    Taurajo and Stonespire were camps/outposts, Teldrassil was an entire zone.
    Barrens is entire zone. Darnassus is just a village with some ruins.

    Yes, and as I already explained, the Dwarves and Night Elf Sentinels were attacked by the Bilgewater Goblins.
    They were, just like Sylvanas was attacked by Greymane.
    Why would Tyrande need to apologize to anyone?
    Because she pretends to be innocent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemos daemonium View Post
    Elegy literally has a night elf baby in it. The game isn’t to scale never has been going off of things like “I didn’t see an npc of it” is incredibly stupid.
    So you agree that Alliance killed Horde children?
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    I would care about the excited Scourge especially at the time Dalaran wasn't even reclaimed yet

    - - - Updated - - -



    Restless Scourge
    Extinction for Tuskarr, Drakkari, Human Trappers, Vrykul, Taunka, Bael'gun's Dwarves, Frostborne etc.
    Global flooding / rising sea levels that poses risk to Menethil Harbor, Darkshore, Theramore, Stormwind, etc.
    Unleash the Faceless Ones and maybe even Yogg'sarron himself (it's heavily implied by Bael'gun that Illidan awakened the Faceless Ones)
    Restless Scourge
    Possible damage to the Emerald Dream
    Possible madness of Malfurion due to trauma
    Restless Scourge

    I'm sure those will lead to the destruction of Azeroth
    yeah, but Illidan isn't trying to destroy Azeroth.

    he simply didn't think about consequences.

    that doesn't make him evil as Sylvanas.

    I can give you countless of other characters that don't think about consequences but it doesn't make them evil.

    btw, a huge bulk of the Scourge was with Arthas in the Easter Kingdoms.

    the whole stuff with the restless Scourge is BS.

    we will see that in SL.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    If I'm not mistaken it was retconned into Jaina teleporting Sunreavers to the prison, but yes the High Elves massacred the Blood Elves
    This is likely. They often retcon stuff like this. But the point stands: Alliance affiliated high elves acted against blood elves.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    wasn't there a dying mother with her son in the Darnassus Temple and then Elune intervened to make their deaths painless
    Divine interventions are always weird. I like how she didn't make them survive. Reminds me of all these Christian legends.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Resheph View Post
    She is obviously a villain, always has been. The only reason you don't think so is because you are thinking with your gonads.

    Dude, computer females aren't real. And they will never give you the love and attention you so clearly crave. It's a shame we're all confined indoors, as I would advise you some fresh air.
    That would be good advice for Steven Danuser, too, I guess, in the hopes we can move on from this World of Sylvanascraft soon. /smiley

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by VladlTutushkin View Post
    “Endless satisfaction” of the Alliance? I dont think you really ever played Alliance. We dont get any satisfaction.
    Apparently winning all wars and killing Horde characters isn't enough for you. Endless satisfaction cannot happen in endlessly greedy minds of Alliance players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Resheph View Post
    She is obviously a villain, always has been. The only reason you don't think so is because you are thinking with your gonads.

    Dude, computer females aren't real. And they will never give you the love and attention you so clearly crave. It's a shame we're all confined indoors, as I would advise you some fresh air.
    Good advice for all the people mourning dead night elf babes.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  7. #207
    I am Murloc! Varodoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    That would be good advice for Steven Danuser, too, I guess, in the hopes we can move on from this World of Sylvanascraft soon. /smiley
    Well my faith in Danuser was restored, since unlike the rest of Sylvanas fanboys, he actually acknowledged that Sylvanas is evil and started the war.

    But who am I kidding, these people will still claim that the Alliance started the war in Stormheim.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  8. #208
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Excited where? Lordaeron? They were already pushed to the east. And Dalaran was already reclaimed by Garithos and was being used as a shelter for refugees.

    I don't know what you are talking about with Orgrim and Alterac. What bargain did he refuse to uphold?
    It wasn't yet. Garithos even sent the Blood Elves on a suicide charge against Dalvengyr's meat grinder and the other passive undeads at the site would've been brought to his side or the other dreadlords when Illidan completely removed the Lich King's control over them.

    Orgrimm turned away the Alteraci seeking for refuge and protection after they got sacked by the Alliance of Lordaeron. There's a reason why the Syndicate hates the Horde too
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  9. #209
    Herald of the Titans Maljinwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    wasn't there a dying mother with her son in the Darnassus Temple and then Elune intervened to make their deaths painless
    "Yes my child. Your death will not be painful. Your soul being sent into the maw? That's going to be terrible though. Man, I am such a great Goddess"
    -Elune
    This world don't give us nothing. It be our lot to suffer... and our duty to fight back.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    yeah, but Illidan isn't trying to destroy Azeroth.

    he simply didn't think about consequences.

    that doesn't make him evil as Sylvanas.

    I can give you countless of other characters that don't think about consequences but it doesn't make them evil.

    btw, a huge bulk of the Scourge was with Arthas in the Easter Kingdoms.

    the whole stuff with the restless Scourge is BS.

    we will see that in SL.
    Arthas can't command the Scourge if the Lich King doesn't exist. It's literally the main point of The Flight From Lordaeron. Either the Dreadlords take them or they be feral, Arthas would be fukked

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    "Yes my child. Your death will not be painful. Your soul being sent into the maw? That's going to be terrible though. Man, I am such a great Goddess"
    -Elune
    ^^

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    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  11. #211
    I am Murloc! Varodoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    It wasn't yet. Garithos even sent the Blood Elves on a suicide charge against Dalvengyr's meat grinder and the other passive undeads at the site would've been brought to his side or the other dreadlords when Illidan completely removed the Lich King's control over them.

    Orgrimm turned away the Alteraci seeking for refuge and protection after they got sacked by the Alliance of Lordaeron. There's a reason why the Syndicate hates the Horde too
    It was already reclaimed by Garithos by the time the Human campaign starts. Also, I'm sorry, I dont understand what would change. Those undead were already controlled by the dreadlord, the Lich King's death wouldnt change anything. And that strike force wasn't that impressive anyway, since they got beaten by Kael's and Vashj's forces.

    I can't find that information anywhere on Wowpedia. Pretty sure Syndicate hate the Horde simply because they are a generic evil faction that seems them as nothing more than beasts who should be enslaved.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  12. #212
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    It was already reclaimed by Garithos by the time the Human campaign starts. Also, I'm sorry, I dont understand what would change. Those undead were already controlled by the dreadlord, the Lich King's death wouldnt change anything. And that strike force wasn't that impressive anyway, since they got beaten by Kael's and Vashj's forces.

    I can't find that information anywhere on Wowpedia. Pretty sure Syndicate hate the Horde simply because they are a generic evil faction that seems them as nothing more than beasts who should be enslaved.
    I mean the principle is still there - Dalvengyr's strike force is a meat grinder but you're right I see.

    It's from the RPG but since there's no other sources that refutes this, it's most likely that it's canon as well. Unless the Syndicate were those from Blackmoore's racist ideals
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  13. #213
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maljinwo View Post
    "Yes my child. Your death will not be painful. Your soul being sent into the maw? That's going to be terrible though. Man, I am such a great Goddess"
    -Elune
    Fortunately their stay won't be overlong, given that come Shadowlands we're probably going to be sorting out the situation with the Jailer and the Maw on a more permanent basis.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  14. #214
    I am Murloc! Varodoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    I mean the principle is still there - Dalvengyr's strike force is a meat grinder but you're right I see.

    It's from the RPG but since there's no other sources that refutes this, it's most likely that it's canon as well. Unless the Syndicate were those from Blackmoore's racist ideals

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    I mean the principle is still there - Dalvengyr's strike force is a meat grinder but you're right I see.

    It's from the RPG but since there's no other sources that refutes this, it's most likely that it's canon as well. Unless the Syndicate were those from Blackmoore's racist ideals
    Garithos was never taking Dalvengyr seriously anyway. He had many forces he refused to give Kael just to be a dick. If Dalvengyr actually posed a threat to him, he wouldn't dealt with him personally or would have given Kael a lot more forces. Either way, the Scourge in Lordaeron at that point did not really threaten that much the New Alliance. What fucked them were Sylvanas and the dreadlords.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    Arthas can't command the Scourge if the Lich King doesn't exist. It's literally the main point of The Flight From Lordaeron. Either the Dreadlords take them or they be feral, Arthas would be fukked
    Lol now that I think about, Illidan should have helped the Dreadlords with the LK.

  16. #216
    I am Murloc! Varodoc's Avatar
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    By the way I just want to point out that Ner'zhul made it clear that in WC3 the Scourge would've been undone if Illidan won. And I dont think that's a retcon from WotLK "There must always be a Lich King". It's just that the Scourge in WC3 was much smaller. Between WC3 and WotLK there were many years in which the Scourge remained dormant, biding its time, and increasing its numbers for war. So it's not that far-fetched to believe that the Scourge still didn't have the numbers to destroy all life on Azeroth back in WC3.

    Point is, Illidan's victory would've fucked only Ner'zhul and Arthas.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  17. #217
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    By the way I just want to point out that Ner'zhul made it clear that in WC3 the Scourge would've been undone if Illidan won. And I dont think that's a retcon from WotLK "There must always be a Lich King". It's just that the Scourge in WC3 was much smaller. Between WC3 and WotLK there were many years in which the Scourge remained dormant, biding its time, and increasing its numbers for war. So it's not that far-fetched to believe that the Scourge still didn't have the numbers to destroy all life on Azeroth back in WC3.

    Point is, Illidan's victory would've fucked only Ner'zhul and Arthas.
    I see. I guess if Illidan indeed naenae'd Ner'zhul maybe Bael'gun would've still held off Yoggy and his squids
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekrotix View Post
    << snip >>
    Your entire argument fails because you're basing it on a premise of "the end justify the means" which is not a good foundation to build our points on.

    The reason for her actions don't matter as much as her actions. And the reason for her actions are selfish, from the get-go. She's torturing and damning people just so she doesn't get tortured and damned.

    Sylvanas has always been shown as a villain, only a more low-key villain because what she did was in the shadows. Even back in Vanilla she was already capturing humans and dwarves and making horrible Blight experiments on them. In Cataclysm, Sylvanas was forcefully raising humans into undeath, condemning them into an "un-life" of torment and damnation. But then in Legion she was put under the spotlight, much of her schemes couldn't be done in secrecy anymore.

    Arthas Menethil, the guy who brought her back from the dead and forced her to assist him in the assault on Quel'thalas. By all accounts, Sylvanas is a victim,
    I'm sorry, but "victim mentality" like this doesn't work. That's like saying child molesters shouldn't be condemned if they were molested when they were a child.
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  19. #219
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Barrens is entire zone. Darnassus is just a village with some ruins.
    Darnassas was a city the equivalent of any other teldasil was a whole zone The equivalent of the barrens or elwyen forest.





    So you agree that Alliance killed Horde children?
    It’s incredibly likely but Probably not in the places you’re saying.

  20. #220
    I am Murloc! Soon-TM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarba View Post
    Sylvanas = Orgrim Doomhammer.
    One is praised the other one is hated. Why? Racism?
    Maybe because Doomhammer was much less cringeworthy than Sylvanas, and also because his ultimate motivations didn't change 3 times in 1 year or so. Although had the Golden of today put her filthy paws on him... /shudder
    Quote Originally Posted by Danuser
    we created a story structure for Sylvanas that, on the surface, echoed many broad strokes of the road Garrosh took (...). These parallels were intentional. But it's within the nuance that we sought to show the story grow and change.
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    BFA was about as nuanced as a golf club to the testicles/ovaries.

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