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  1. #421
    Quote Originally Posted by Iem View Post
    Yeah I get it if we dont share your opinion we are "dense".
    No. The fact that after literally everything she has done throughout the novels (which are canon), questlines, cinematics etc. Being completely evil. The fact that you do not see this is what makes you dense.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2020-04-03 at 07:14 PM. Reason: Received Infraction

  2. #422
    Quote Originally Posted by omeomorfismo View Post
    she didnt care about me to the point that she gave me an hearthstone to tell me



    so exactly why i should be feel betrayed (as a forsaken/dk)? nathanos even warned me every single time that the missions would be rough as fuck for all bfa. and being in a suicide mission is something that i ever did before multiple times. damn, all wod is based on the initial suicide mission throught the portal.
    im not saying that you wont be right and i wont have to work with the traitors like nothing had happened. but for now at best this isnt hinted other than a generic and assumed "we are telling how you will should feel" without any organic storytelling.
    damn as a forsaken player i never had any problem with the idea of murdering all azeroth if necessary, the plague that i personally helped to develop was made in fact to annihilate any enemy would cross the forsaken's path in first place. even any forsaken npc in game (other than voss) never have these problems in first place.
    That is the problem though. You can't play the villain. It's a fantasy game made for Good to defeat Evil in the end. Your character will be forced to go to the Shadowlands, do the Questline and possibly kill Sylvannas in the end on the questline or in a raid as a Boss. Warhammer on the other hand is perfect for that.

  3. #423
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth-Piekus View Post
    Warhammer on the other hand is perfect for that.
    Oh, you mean THIS Warhammer?



    Also, you keep saying this Warhammer thing, it's like you are trolling, i swear "Good kills Bad, you shoud feel this and that, btw play Warhammer"
    And you are setteling for the laziest type of story developement and that is alarming. Nothing we can do now, i guess, damage is already done. As with many other needlesly mangled pieces of lore to serve dubious gameplay functions. But we should raise concerns about lore handling, i think it's about time.

    Also, killing Sylvanas, for me it's like kiling Thrall, Malfuion, Tyrande or other WC3 heroes. Voljin and Cairne were a waste.
    Last edited by Necromind; 2020-04-04 at 01:40 AM.

  4. #424
    Herald of the Titans Dartz1979's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    This to be honest. Alleria and Vereesa are hotter than High Elf Sylvanas.
    alleria maybe but not vereesa she isnt that great looking.
    You can't take what ya can't see... *rolls d20* You rolled a natural 20* The skill of stealth is successful.

    Duelingnexus name: Jaina1337
    Blizzard Battle Tag: Jaina1337#1396

  5. #425
    Most of this conversation misses the point. Yes, Sylvanas has always been evil but that's not the issue. She was never a Saturday morning cartoon villain who wants to "kill hope", or even a "schemes within schemes" villain, just a very ruthless person who stayed in the shadows.

    The plot device that "the more people die the more power she gets!" is a very odd and artificial way of trying to change her motivations. It's also redundant because she already has a reason to kill people, namely so that she can raise them as Forsaken.

    Point is, it doesn't matter whether she was always evil -- the clumsy and terrible writing she got in BFA would have ruined any character (and did ruin several others).
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    She lost against Arthas for purpose. She wanted to feed Quel'thalas to hungering darkness.

  6. #426
    Banned FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Meanwhile joining an omnicidal Fel cult that is on a rampage across all realities that killed more people than all Sylvanases from all realities combined lands you in Revendreth. And the stated goal of the Blight was never to kill everything, only the Scourge (for being Scourge) and the humans (for spawning Arthas).
    What kinda ffing blight kills ONLY scourge undead, and humans.
    but not forsaken undead and orcs/tauren/etc.

  7. #427
    Quote Originally Posted by kansor View Post
    Most of this conversation misses the point. Yes, Sylvanas has always been evil but that's not the issue. She was never a Saturday morning cartoon villain who wants to "kill hope", or even a "schemes within schemes" villain, just a very ruthless person who stayed in the shadows.

    The plot device that "the more people die the more power she gets!" is a very odd and artificial way of trying to change her motivations. It's also redundant because she already has a reason to kill people, namely so that she can raise them as Forsaken.

    Point is, it doesn't matter whether she was always evil -- the clumsy and terrible writing she got in BFA would have ruined any character (and did ruin several others).
    Define "morning cartoon villains", because smiling when someone is melting in front of you or saying stuff like "Let the gilneans enjoy their small victory, not even their bones will remain by tomorrow" is very morning cartoon villain.

    Quote Originally Posted by Necromind View Post
    Oh, you mean THIS Warhammer?



    Also, you keep saying this Warhammer thing, it's like you are trolling, i swear "Good kills Bad, you shoud feel this and that, btw play Warhammer"
    And you are setteling for the laziest type of story developement and that is alarming. Nothing we can do now, i guess, damage is already done. As with many other needlesly mangled pieces of lore to serve dubious gameplay functions. But we should raise concerns about lore handling, i think it's about time.

    Also, killing Sylvanas, for me it's like kiling Thrall, Malfuion, Tyrande or other WC3 heroes. Voljin and Cairne were a waste.
    So like killing Arthas, Deathwing, Kil'jaeden, Archimonde, and any other WC3 villain?
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-04-04 at 09:41 AM.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  8. #428
    She is a villain, because she is what Blizzard wants her to be.

    Yes, that means she's also a badly written character, which is unfortunate, but also still true.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    What kinda ffing blight kills ONLY scourge undead, and humans.
    but not forsaken undead and orcs/tauren/etc.
    One that's properly engineered.

    Back in Vanilla, it's believed the testing you did in Tarren Mill was that kind of testing. Hence the questionable act of feeding the pumpkins to the human, the ale to the dwarf, and eventually (iirc) you also kill an Orc, which is why the questline became questionable.

    You can in fact make plagues that avoid certain traits in people. That's what science is for. We clearly see this in the Attack on Undercity. The skeletons remain, even though the flesh is stripped from the bone, and the creatures which rise are under Sylvanas' control. You get that from crafting the plague to do that, hence why that didn't happen at the Wrathgate when it WASN'T designed to do that - It was designed to just kill everything.
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2020-04-04 at 09:30 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

  9. #429
    Quote Originally Posted by Necromind View Post
    Oh, you mean THIS Warhammer?



    Also, you keep saying this Warhammer thing, it's like you are trolling, i swear "Good kills Bad, you shoud feel this and that, btw play Warhammer"
    And you are setteling for the laziest type of story developement and that is alarming. Nothing we can do now, i guess, damage is already done. As with many other needlesly mangled pieces of lore to serve dubious gameplay functions. But we should raise concerns about lore handling, i think it's about time.

    Also, killing Sylvanas, for me it's like kiling Thrall, Malfuion, Tyrande or other WC3 heroes. Voljin and Cairne were a waste.
    On the contrary friend. I am serious. Warhammer Online who now has been revived has the story for someone who likes to play Super Good Faction vs Evil Faction cause both factions there are fanatical to the bone. Even the Good Order Faction has the Motto Death to the Heretic, the Mutant, the Unclean. You purge whole families of villains without thinking if they have good motives behind. Also yes I agree that we should raise Lore Concerns. Lore Concerns where the whole lore was butchered in order for two Warchiefs to even stand a chance to do what they did. Lore that made the Alliance lawful stupid and the Neutral Factions neutral stupid. I don't see why Sylvannas has to escape penalties when other Heroes and Villains couldn't and dissapeared from the face of the story.

  10. #430
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    What kinda ffing blight kills ONLY scourge undead, and humans.
    but not forsaken undead and orcs/tauren/etc.
    I think that Blizzard retconned the retcon, because at first, the blight killed everyone save - perhaps - Forsaken.

  11. #431
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartz1979 View Post
    alleria maybe but not vereesa she isnt that great looking.
    I've seen Three Sisters and Vereesa looks like a fat 30 year old woman

    - - - Updated - - -

    too lazy to find which one who to quote but... I prefer to think that Sylvanas didn't betray the loyalist in Nazjatar but rather has faith and knows very well that her loyalist can survive the trip down to the seafloor anyway

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    I think that Blizzard retconned the retcon, because at first, the blight killed everyone save - perhaps - Forsaken.
    Yep literally in WC3 shows that disease cloud (which is pretty much "the" blight) can only harm non-undead
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  12. #432
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    too lazy to find which one who to quote but... I prefer to think that Sylvanas didn't betray the loyalist in Nazjatar but rather has faith and knows very well that her loyalist can survive the trip down to the seafloor anyway
    You mean the Sylvanas that tells the loyalist characters to their face that she didn't care whether they did?

  13. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    too lazy to find which one who to quote but... I prefer to think that Sylvanas didn't betray the loyalist in Nazjatar but rather has faith and knows very well that her loyalist can survive the trip down to the seafloor anyway
    You are free to believe that of course. The reality however is that in the N'zoth fight you get to hear her explicitely DEMAND of Azshara to kill all the "Heroes" in Nazjatar. Azshara even mocks her for throwing away the lives of her people like that.

  14. #434
    That moment when Azshara cares more about her people than Sylvanas. Sad.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  15. #435
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    What kinda ffing blight kills ONLY scourge undead, and humans.
    but not forsaken undead and orcs/tauren/etc.
    What if I told you that there's a difference between a purpose of something (it's almost as if the word I used was "stated goal") and its capabilities and properties? If instead of the Blight Sylvanas ordered the RAS to create a boatload of guns to kill humans and undead does that in your mind mean those guns would be ineffective to kill Elves? They're goddamn guns and a bullet in the head is a bullet in the head. That doesn't change the fact that Sylvanas wanted to use those "guns" only to kill specific targets.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2020-04-04 at 03:30 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Slant is an extremist, willing to sacrifice the lives of everyone to keep his wet dream of the EU alive.
    You shouldn't support people like him, it's like supporting ISIS.

  16. #436
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    That moment when Azshara cares more about her people than Sylvanas. Sad.
    not really wanting an Illidan 2.0 nor Grommash 2.0 but I do kinda wish we were seen a bit more of Azshara's redemption like helping us against the remnants of the Old God's forces and Sylvanas' loyalists; I think she had her harsh lesson after the Sundering

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    You are free to believe that of course. The reality however is that in the N'zoth fight you get to hear her explicitely DEMAND of Azshara to kill all the "Heroes" in Nazjatar. Azshara even mocks her for throwing away the lives of her people like that.
    I see, fair enough. I thought it was those of Alliance and non-loyaists.
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  17. #437
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Define "morning cartoon villains", because smiling when someone is melting in front of you or saying stuff like "Let the gilneans enjoy their small victory, not even their bones will remain by tomorrow" is very morning cartoon villain.
    Ruthless in pursuit of her goals and in defense of her people is different from being an almost metaphysical bad guy who wants to "kill hope" and does goofy villain monologues befitting a one-dimensional evulz character. Beside the clumsy dialogue and 8d chess, BFA mistook what kind of evil she is. It didn't turn her evil, but it did assassinate her as a character.
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    She lost against Arthas for purpose. She wanted to feed Quel'thalas to hungering darkness.

  18. #438
    Quote Originally Posted by kansor View Post
    Ruthless in pursuit of her goals and in defense of her people is different from being an almost metaphysical bad guy who wants to "kill hope" and does goofy villain monologues befitting a one-dimensional evulz character. Beside the clumsy dialogue and 8d chess, BFA mistook what kind of evil she is. It didn't turn her evil, but it did assassinate her as a character.
    Not really. Since Cataclysm at least she showed she had no problem exterminating an entire city if she had to, like she did in Gilneas. The Burning of Teldrassil was not surprising.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  19. #439
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Not really. Since Cataclysm at least she showed she had no problem exterminating an entire city if she had to, like she did in Gilneas. The Burning of Teldrassil was not surprising.
    No, it wasn't, which is why it should have been done for simple tactical reasons rather than in a fit of pique when someone insulted you in order to "kill their hope". That was a prime moment of character assassination.
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    She lost against Arthas for purpose. She wanted to feed Quel'thalas to hungering darkness.

  20. #440
    Bloodsail Admiral Grazrug's Avatar
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    Can't wait for Sylvanas' inevitable redemption in Shadowlands. The haters will spit fire and acid when it happens. A source of joy for me.

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