Sylvanas Character Assassination

[Aucald]

So Voldermort isn't a villain cause his actions are motivated by his refusal to die. he wanted to survive so he created Horcruxes. Sure he is evil now, but it's not his fault his soul got cut into seven places.

The first death used to create his first Horcrux was still his decision, as it occurred before any damage to his soul done through the process of creating Horcruxes. He also enjoyed torturing and tormenting people all the way back into his childhood, well before he became a wizard in full. The circumstances of his birth could well be a mitigating circumstance of some kind, but regardless he still made evil decisions and performed evil acts throughout his life. He is definitely evil insofar as we commonly reckon evil.

[Combatbutler]

friendly reminder again Sylvanas sent her Farstriders to a suicide rush against Arthas because getting the fame and glory and being the hero who defeated the Death Knight is better than simply outright assassinating him with a 360 no scope snipe; she was even judged by the Val'kyr for it - arrows in her quiver

But was still willing to do the exact same thing herself, she considered her troops as arrows in her quiver, including herself. While it is true her vanity is something rather stupid, but this kind of vanity is very wide spread in the leader roster in all the factions and she tried to snipe him later on, with Arthas deflecting the blow.

Ultimately Sylvanas , was very different while being alive , compared to her undead self. In life she was duty bound and ultimately selfless, in death she shirked duty and was acting in pure self interest from start to finish. In essence she did a 180° after resurrection.

[Ardenaso]

But was still willing to do the exact same thing herself, she considered her troops as arrows in her quiver, including herself. While it is true her vanity is something rather stupid, but this kind of vanity is very wide spread in the leader roster in all the factions and she tried to snipe him later on, with Arthas deflecting the blow.

Much better if she did it as the very first, like when Arthas didn't know she existed yet

[Combatbutler]

Much better if she did it as the very first, like when Arthas didn't know she existed yet

I am very aware of that, doesn't really change a thing though.

Living Sylvanas had honor, was dutiful and ultimately selfless

Undead Sylvanas has no honor, doesn't care for her duties and is extremely selfish.

[rowaasr13]

yea if you don't count Eastern Germany and every Country Anexed by the Soviet Union.

Name a few.

[Wangming]

The first death used to create his first Horcrux was still his decision, as it occurred before any damage to his soul done through the process of creating Horcruxes. He also enjoyed torturing and tormenting people all the way back into his childhood, well before he became a wizard in full. The circumstances of his birth could well be a mitigating circumstance of some kind, but regardless he still made evil decisions and performed evil acts throughout his life. He is definitely evil insofar as we commonly reckon evil.

Wasn't it obvious that my entire post was ironic and making fun of the dumb excuse OP tries to use to paint Sylvanas as anything beside a villain?

[danielewhite]

If she had kept fighting against demons that was true. However, in her desire for revenge she killed everything and everyone she felt like, because she did not care about anything but her revenge.
She literally tested her blight (a tool for said revenge) on some captured humans and her own Forsaken. That was after she had beaten the Dreadlords into submission, so this was not a desperate move for self-preservation as you make it sound.
She did it because her revenge was everything she cared about, her own selfish desires made her murder completely unrelated people in a gruesome fashion and she enjoyed watching their deaththrows. That is simply evil, no two sides about it. Sylvanas was a villain from the moment she was freed from Arthas will.

this is world of warcraft the story I already agreed Is bad.

I just don't understand how you can look at her history and imagine that she was ever anything but totally evil. All her actions were driven by selfish desires. First revenge, then clinging to life and she has been completely fine to ruthlessly murder anyone to achieve either of these goals. She is not sacrificing people for the greater good as an anti-hero, she is killing people because she feels that her continued existance outweighs anything else, making her a villain and nothing but a villain.

world of warcraft again...

It is really not the writer fault that you made an inaccurate picture of the character in your head and now demand this picture to be made real. Every quest, every book, every short story written told you what kind of a person she is and that she should have been killed years ago.

It would be completely fine to like Sylvanas for the villain she is, but declaring that the writers suck because YOU have ignored the lore of the last 15 years and made up your own headcannon where she is not a villain is simply unfair.

yeah, world of warcraft story... I already agreed she's bad.

... Jaina nearly vaporized Orgrimmar and commandeered a flying ship alone that broke the Siege of Lordaeron single-handedly, that strong and female enough for you? Or does the change in her outfit already qualify as "transformation"?


She literally left Tyrande to die and lied to Malfurion to rile him up against Illidan, maniplulating one of her races leaders and leaving the other to die just so she could get Illidan... she was quite mad there already.



Maybe it is more that you have very strange views of characters that in no way ever was mirrored in the lore and you get mad because the people actually knowing how THEIR characters work do not agree with your headcannon? Food for thought.

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The Sylvanas Warbringer and the "Three Sisters" comic shows her clearly remembering her past as Ranger General and from Edge of Night we can take that she was at least very ruthless even then, spending her fellow elves like arrows in her quiver. Granted she was a military leader and confronted with an advancing enemy, so I guess she had to make sacrifices.

im gonna put everything together because u keep mentioning world of warcraft story, which again I already agreed on shes bad.

sadly u can't put the two franchises apart...even thou they have different writers ...and different take on the characters...

what I can say are two things... first, u mention the greater good, could u tell me what the greater good is?...if you tell me something cheesy like Azeroth...
that works for lord of the rings where only two forces (good and evil) collide

what made warcraft 3 so cool, is that we didn't have two forces....we have many ... 4 main ones were human, undead, orcs and night elves. among others
and with the exception of the legion, none was depicted as evil...they were all shades of grey...even the scourge were merely serving their masters.

so everyone had their own interests... the greater good is their own people they don't care about the other races....at the end they banded together and stood limited against the burning legion because they would die otherwise...

thrall killed humans... Jaina killed orcs...Tyrande killed humans and orcs...

even Arthas at the end helped indirectly to vanish the legion... because he gives a time rats ass about Azeroth? XDDDDDDDDD

ultimately what I can tell you is that if you think the guys who couldn't put out a good raid finale cinematic together...
and instead decided to rip-off the fall of Sauron from Lord of the rings are good writers and the story is good...
well that's up to you
the fact they did that, show just how much appreciation and respect blizzard have for their fans...and it's not only their fault alone...because so-called fans accept it and don't raise the bar...

enjoy your 5stars story.

[Aucald]

Wasn't it obvious that my entire post was ironic and making fun of the dumb excuse OP tries to use to paint Sylvanas as anything beside a villain?

I figured as much due to the extreme conclusion, but I thought it deserved elucidation in any case - just in case your sarcasm was lost in translation.

[Darth-Piekus]

I figured as much due to the extreme conclusion, but I thought it deserved elucidation in any case - just in case your sarcasm was lost in translation.

Since we established a long time now that Sylvannas is a villain I wonder. What can she do to be reedeemed to the eyes of Azeroth? I mean something like huge.

[Aucald]

Since we established a long time now that Sylvannas is a villain I wonder. What can she do to be reedeemed to the eyes of Azeroth? I mean something like huge.

Sylvanas' only redemption, if she's to have such a thing, would be in her own final death. Sacrificing herself to undo the damage caused by her and the Jailer, knowing that it will destroy her with no hope of resurrection or any type of reward. Heralded or lauded by no one, and committed to history only as the villain she was.

[Varodoc]

Since we established a long time now that Sylvannas is a villain I wonder. What can she do to be reedeemed to the eyes of Azeroth? I mean something like huge.

There is nothing she can do to redeem herself in the eyes of Azeroth. Not even Kerrigan did, she literally saved the universe but most people still saw her as the terrifying Queen of Blades, so she left behind a hated legacy.

The closest thing she will get to a redemption is her either realizing her mistakes and dying or trying to atone for her sins by helping us defeat the Jailer in the last moments of her miserable existence. But history will forever remember her as the monster who started the Fourth War and tore apart the very veil between life and death.

[Soon-TM]

What can she do to be reedeemed to the eyes of Azeroth? I mean something like huge.

I'll go with "Draenor Azeroth is fREe!!!11!1". They've already shown that they don't care about blatantly rehashing plots from past xpacs - but with Nuance™ this time.

[Aleax]

friendly reminder again Sylvanas sent her Farstriders to a suicide rush against Arthas because getting the fame and glory and being the hero who defeated the Death Knight is better than simply outright assassinating him with a 360 no scope snipe; she was even judged by the Val'kyr for it - arrows in her quiver

Was this fluff added after Warcraft III? I don't recall that she was dark aligned back then... Maybie Blizzard retconned her personnality to confort her as a banshee?

[Combatbutler]

Since we established a long time now that Sylvannas is a villain I wonder. What can she do to be reedeemed to the eyes of Azeroth? I mean something like huge.

Going by wow metric, not much. Though redemption stories in general are rather dull in my opinion, so there should be no grovelling, no remorse, something akin to the Garrosh during his trial clapping after she is beaten, then she just dies and end of story.

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Sylvanas' only redemption, if she's to have such a thing, would be in her own final death. Sacrificing herself to undo the damage caused by her and the Jailer, knowing that it will destroy her with no hope of resurrection or any type of reward. Heralded or lauded by no one, and committed to history only as the villain she was.

This would be the worst possible outcome for me, I want her to own her choices and go down head held high, maybe even pitying those that stopped her and then she dies for good, meaning something akin to non existence, meaning no hell or heaven, just ceasing to be, so that something akin to the illidan shenanigans can't be done.

[Aucald]

This would be the worst possible outcome for me, I want her to own her choices and go down head held high, maybe even pitying those that stopped her and then she dies for good, meaning something akin to non existence, meaning no hell or heaven, just ceasing to be, so that something akin to the illidan shenanigans can't be done.

Seems like the same basic ending, save for going down with her head held high - something she doesn't deserve in my view. But definitely dead for good, with no heaven or hell, obliterated utterly by her choice.

[Varodoc]

I'm calling it, Blizz will pull out some plot point like "all souls destroyed in the Shadowlands cease to exist", so that when Sylvanas finally dies there won't be any hope for her return either.

[Difuid]

In my opinion after the Lich King was defeated the writers should have made Sylvanas look for a way to "resurrect" herself and her faction as a new purpose, instead of "What do I do with myself now?" plus in the past she was always so bothered about being undead.
Azeroth is littered with Titan tech and we see in Ulduar and the Mogu that making new living bodies and transfering souls into those is far from beyond reach.

Of course they would had to make the players who are fans of the Forsaken accept that their race no longer consists of edgy half rotten corpses but edgy stormforged. Would have worth it compared to the current story that must consist of the same Nth time regurgitated story elements.

[Combatbutler]

Seems like the same basic ending, save for going down with her head held high - something she doesn't deserve in my view. But definitely dead for good, with no heaven or hell, obliterated utterly by her choice.

Going down with your head held high has absolutely nothing to do with deserving it or not, it just means standing with ones conviction, without groveling or begging for ones life in the end.

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I'm calling it, Blizz will pull out some plot point like "all souls destroyed in the Shadowlands cease to exist", so that when Sylvanas finally dies there won't be any hope for her return either.

They already said at blizzcon that souls, that die in the shadowlands are gone, how long that statement lasts is an entirely different matter.

[Aucald]

Going down with your head held high has absolutely nothing to do with deserving it or not, it just means standing with ones conviction, without groveling or begging for ones life in the end.

I don't need her to beg or grovel, but when one's conviction is omnicidal damnation, I prefer they not stand by it in a proposed redemption arc.

[Soon-TM]

They would had to make the players who are fans of the Forsaken accept that their race no longer consists of edgy half rotten corpses.

They've already done that. As per BtS, Forsaken aren't edgy, callous, ruthless half rotten corpses, but instead they are soft, bleeding hearts who just want to hug their living relatives (do you even picture yourself hugging a half rotten zombie? FFS), oppressed by a caricature of a police state until (this is from BfA) MILF Calia came to redeem them. They will probably hold the first free elections in Lordaeron now