Page 23 of 51 FirstFirst ...
13
21
22
23
24
25
33
... LastLast
  1. #441
    Banned FelPlague's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Ontario,Canada
    Posts
    21,067
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    Yep literally in WC3 shows that disease cloud (which is pretty much "the" blight) can only harm non-undead
    Quote Originally Posted by Manariel View Post
    I think that Blizzard retconned the retcon, because at first, the blight killed everyone save - perhaps - Forsaken.
    Thats because she made it stronger, to ALSO hurt undead. as she wanted to use it on everyone, primarily the lich kings forces.
    and no btw, she made a deal with azshara to literally send you, loyalist or not to go die in nazjatar, so she would have the necklace.

  2. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    Given how the council is full of kumbaya singers that have no spines and don't disagree with each other on anything because it's sinful, the moment one of them pitches the idea of melting down Dwarven children for a vaporub the rest of them will roll with it. Besides, as shown in Vulpera questline Baine alone is running things while the rest do fuck all.




    Meanwhile joining an omnicidal Fel cult that is on a rampage across all realities that killed more people than all Sylvanases from all realities combined lands you in Revendreth. And the stated goal of the Blight was never to kill everything, only the Scourge (for being Scourge) and the humans (for spawning Arthas).
    The Blight kills everything living, not only the Scorge and humans. At the wrathgate it killed the Horde forces too.

  3. #443
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    787
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Thats because she made it stronger, to ALSO hurt undead. as she wanted to use it on everyone, primarily the lich kings forces.
    I was referring to the point where it wasn't exclusive for humans
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  4. #444
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    It is more the mindset of killing anyone, who stands in your way. That is a clear red flag Sylvanas was fine that way, because she was merely a regional power and as such could remain such a character, but one thing that would have always sealed her fate would have been too much power.
    excellent comment I'd say so too, and I think you are pretty right...
    sylvanas as a fictional non-existent character has gone through different hands...(writers)
    and as of frozen throne, she doesn't show any desire for power...what she wants is revenge.
    she was pretty much forced to take Lordaeron as the nathrezim threatened to destroy her and her remaining banshees.
    nothing evil about that.

    right now shes totally evil...
    and what used to be my favourite character has become a crazy ^&*(* that I hate.

    so instead of trying to kill off sylvanas...because the writers suck...
    we should stand as a community and try to raise the companies standards.
    doubtfully sylvanas is the only character lacking...everything in the story is lacking
    and that is the problem


    few examples...mentioning other characters I used to like.

    tyrande, she used to be a strong independent woman, who only elune could forbid of anything ...
    in legion she is presented as a weak character crying for a man...later in battle for Azeroth we also learn that female characters can only ve strong if they go through some transformation....someone in blizzard must like magical girls...(right alleria?) or maybe Dragon ball Z
    Maiev...she was another strong female lead, her motivation was to capture Illidan and serve her justice.
    then we get a novel telling us she went mad and started to kill off elves.
    then they realized they needed her back for legion so they scrapped the madness and turns out she was possessed by devils. (said by Jarod shadowsong during legion)
    then she allied with Illidan XD (this goes sooooo against her character that it's funny)and gets even more fun cause during the last raid she wasn't even around so people could say...well at least shes guarding him.
    then she got to apologize to Tyrande! the one that killed her wardens whom she considered family... and in a way that also looked like it was maiev's fault.


    do u remember that cinematic that was a rip-off almost frame by frame of the lord of the ring finale?

    every single piece of writing in this game sucks, they don't have standards and we are letting them.
    because we just eat content without setting a bar for ourselves.

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by Nekrotix View Post
    Is anyone else really pissed about this??
    Sylvanas was a "good-aligned" elf before being a banshee, so I am not sure she should have been made evil by all means now. So I am with you.
    Unfortunately that's the choice of the devs, she is now a banshee and is by all means now "evil", she looks like she doesn't have the slight memory of their previous body/state/mind. ...RIP Sylvanas

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleax View Post
    Sylvanas was a "good-aligned" elf before being a banshee, so I am not sure she should have been made evil by all means now. So I am with you.
    Unfortunately that's the choice of the devs, she is now a banshee and is by all means now "evil", she looks like she doesn't have the slight memory of their previous body/state/mind. ...RIP Sylvanas
    On the contrary she has perfect memory of what happened to her, she simply rejects all that she was because she saw herself as a fool who clung to hope and life and got killed because of that naiveness. Like she told Delaryn.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by danielewhite View Post
    excellent comment I'd say so too, and I think you are pretty right...
    sylvanas as a fictional non-existent character has gone through different hands...(writers)
    and as of frozen throne, she doesn't show any desire for power...what she wants is revenge.
    she was pretty much forced to take Lordaeron as the nathrezim threatened to destroy her and her remaining banshees.
    nothing evil about that.
    If she had kept fighting against demons that was true. However, in her desire for revenge she killed everything and everyone she felt like, because she did not care about anything but her revenge.
    She literally tested her blight (a tool for said revenge) on some captured humans and her own Forsaken. That was after she had beaten the Dreadlords into submission, so this was not a desperate move for self-preservation as you make it sound.
    She did it because her revenge was everything she cared about, her own selfish desires made her murder completely unrelated people in a gruesome fashion and she enjoyed watching their deaththrows. That is simply evil, no two sides about it. Sylvanas was a villain from the moment she was freed from Arthas will.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielewhite View Post
    right now shes totally evil...
    and what used to be my favourite character has become a crazy ^&*(* that I hate.
    I just don't understand how you can look at her history and imagine that she was ever anything but totally evil. All her actions were driven by selfish desires. First revenge, then clinging to life and she has been completely fine to ruthlessly murder anyone to achieve either of these goals. She is not sacrificing people for the greater good as an anti-hero, she is killing people because she feels that her continued existance outweighs anything else, making her a villain and nothing but a villain.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielewhite View Post
    so instead of trying to kill off sylvanas...because the writers suck...
    we should stand as a community and try to raise the companies standards.
    doubtfully sylvanas is the only character lacking...everything in the story is lacking
    and that is the problem
    It is really not the writer fault that you made an inaccurate picture of the character in your head and now demand this picture to be made real. Every quest, every book, every short story written told you what kind of a person she is and that she should have been killed years ago.

    It would be completely fine to like Sylvanas for the villain she is, but declaring that the writers suck because YOU have ignored the lore of the last 15 years and made up your own headcannon where she is not a villain is simply unfair.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielewhite View Post
    few examples...mentioning other characters I used to like.

    tyrande, she used to be a strong independent woman, who only elune could forbid of anything ...
    in legion she is presented as a weak character crying for a man...later in battle for Azeroth we also learn that female characters can only ve strong if they go through some transformation....someone in blizzard must like magical girls...(right alleria?) or maybe Dragon ball Z
    ... Jaina nearly vaporized Orgrimmar and commandeered a flying ship alone that broke the Siege of Lordaeron single-handedly, that strong and female enough for you? Or does the change in her outfit already qualify as "transformation"?
    Quote Originally Posted by danielewhite View Post
    Maiev...she was another strong female lead, her motivation was to capture Illidan and serve her justice.
    [B]then we get a novel telling us she went mad and started to kill off elves.
    She literally left Tyrande to die and lied to Malfurion to rile him up against Illidan, maniplulating one of her races leaders and leaving the other to die just so she could get Illidan... she was quite mad there already.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielewhite View Post
    every single piece of writing in this game sucks, they don't have standards and we are letting them.
    because we just eat content without setting a bar for ourselves.
    Maybe it is more that you have very strange views of characters that in no way ever was mirrored in the lore and you get mad because the people actually knowing how THEIR characters work do not agree with your headcannon? Food for thought.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Aleax View Post
    Sylvanas was a "good-aligned" elf before being a banshee, so I am not sure she should have been made evil by all means now. So I am with you.
    Unfortunately that's the choice of the devs, she is now a banshee and is by all means now "evil", she looks like she doesn't have the slight memory of their previous body/state/mind. ...RIP Sylvanas
    The Sylvanas Warbringer and the "Three Sisters" comic shows her clearly remembering her past as Ranger General and from Edge of Night we can take that she was at least very ruthless even then, spending her fellow elves like arrows in her quiver. Granted she was a military leader and confronted with an advancing enemy, so I guess she had to make sacrifices.
    Last edited by Raisei; 2020-04-06 at 11:24 AM.

  8. #448
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    787
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleax View Post
    Sylvanas was a "good-aligned" elf before being a banshee
    friendly reminder again Sylvanas sent her Farstriders to a suicide rush against Arthas because getting the fame and glory and being the hero who defeated the Death Knight is better than simply outright assassinating him with a 360 no scope snipe; she was even judged by the Val'kyr for it - arrows in her quiver
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  9. #449
    Warchief Wangming's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Not Azeroth
    Posts
    2,119
    So Voldermort isn't a villain cause his actions are motivated by his refusal to die. he wanted to survive so he created Horcruxes. Sure he is evil now, but it's not his fault his soul got cut into seven places.

  10. #450
    Voldemort wasn't evil. Baby Harry started the war when he deflected the avada kedavra and hit Voldemort.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  11. #451
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA-US
    Posts
    27,010
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    So Voldermort isn't a villain cause his actions are motivated by his refusal to die. he wanted to survive so he created Horcruxes. Sure he is evil now, but it's not his fault his soul got cut into seven places.
    The first death used to create his first Horcrux was still his decision, as it occurred before any damage to his soul done through the process of creating Horcruxes. He also enjoyed torturing and tormenting people all the way back into his childhood, well before he became a wizard in full. The circumstances of his birth could well be a mitigating circumstance of some kind, but regardless he still made evil decisions and performed evil acts throughout his life. He is definitely evil insofar as we commonly reckon evil.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  12. #452
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    friendly reminder again Sylvanas sent her Farstriders to a suicide rush against Arthas because getting the fame and glory and being the hero who defeated the Death Knight is better than simply outright assassinating him with a 360 no scope snipe; she was even judged by the Val'kyr for it - arrows in her quiver
    But was still willing to do the exact same thing herself, she considered her troops as arrows in her quiver, including herself. While it is true her vanity is something rather stupid, but this kind of vanity is very wide spread in the leader roster in all the factions and she tried to snipe him later on, with Arthas deflecting the blow.

    Ultimately Sylvanas , was very different while being alive , compared to her undead self. In life she was duty bound and ultimately selfless, in death she shirked duty and was acting in pure self interest from start to finish. In essence she did a 180° after resurrection.

  13. #453
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Philippines
    Posts
    787
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    But was still willing to do the exact same thing herself, she considered her troops as arrows in her quiver, including herself. While it is true her vanity is something rather stupid, but this kind of vanity is very wide spread in the leader roster in all the factions and she tried to snipe him later on, with Arthas deflecting the blow.
    Much better if she did it as the very first, like when Arthas didn't know she existed yet


    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  14. #454
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    Much better if she did it as the very first, like when Arthas didn't know she existed yet
    I am very aware of that, doesn't really change a thing though.

    Living Sylvanas had honor, was dutiful and ultimately selfless

    Undead Sylvanas has no honor, doesn't care for her duties and is extremely selfish.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2020-04-06 at 05:19 PM.

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by bowlink View Post
    yea if you don't count Eastern Germany and every Country Anexed by the Soviet Union.
    Name a few.
    Garrison Mission Manager: Select best followers for BfA, Legion and WoD missions.
    Instance Spec: Switch to spec suitable for your role when "dungeon ready" pops up.
    LDB: WoW Token: Monitor WoW Token price changes in LDB display.
    Other addons: Quest Map with Details * LFG Filter for Premade Groups * Obvious Mail Expiration.

  16. #456
    Warchief Wangming's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Not Azeroth
    Posts
    2,119
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    The first death used to create his first Horcrux was still his decision, as it occurred before any damage to his soul done through the process of creating Horcruxes. He also enjoyed torturing and tormenting people all the way back into his childhood, well before he became a wizard in full. The circumstances of his birth could well be a mitigating circumstance of some kind, but regardless he still made evil decisions and performed evil acts throughout his life. He is definitely evil insofar as we commonly reckon evil.
    Wasn't it obvious that my entire post was ironic and making fun of the dumb excuse OP tries to use to paint Sylvanas as anything beside a villain?

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    If she had kept fighting against demons that was true. However, in her desire for revenge she killed everything and everyone she felt like, because she did not care about anything but her revenge.
    She literally tested her blight (a tool for said revenge) on some captured humans and her own Forsaken. That was after she had beaten the Dreadlords into submission, so this was not a desperate move for self-preservation as you make it sound.
    She did it because her revenge was everything she cared about, her own selfish desires made her murder completely unrelated people in a gruesome fashion and she enjoyed watching their deaththrows. That is simply evil, no two sides about it. Sylvanas was a villain from the moment she was freed from Arthas will.
    this is world of warcraft the story I already agreed Is bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    I just don't understand how you can look at her history and imagine that she was ever anything but totally evil. All her actions were driven by selfish desires. First revenge, then clinging to life and she has been completely fine to ruthlessly murder anyone to achieve either of these goals. She is not sacrificing people for the greater good as an anti-hero, she is killing people because she feels that her continued existance outweighs anything else, making her a villain and nothing but a villain.
    world of warcraft again...


    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    It is really not the writer fault that you made an inaccurate picture of the character in your head and now demand this picture to be made real. Every quest, every book, every short story written told you what kind of a person she is and that she should have been killed years ago.

    It would be completely fine to like Sylvanas for the villain she is, but declaring that the writers suck because YOU have ignored the lore of the last 15 years and made up your own headcannon where she is not a villain is simply unfair.
    yeah, world of warcraft story... I already agreed she's bad.



    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    ... Jaina nearly vaporized Orgrimmar and commandeered a flying ship alone that broke the Siege of Lordaeron single-handedly, that strong and female enough for you? Or does the change in her outfit already qualify as "transformation"?


    She literally left Tyrande to die and lied to Malfurion to rile him up against Illidan, maniplulating one of her races leaders and leaving the other to die just so she could get Illidan... she was quite mad there already.



    Maybe it is more that you have very strange views of characters that in no way ever was mirrored in the lore and you get mad because the people actually knowing how THEIR characters work do not agree with your headcannon? Food for thought.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The Sylvanas Warbringer and the "Three Sisters" comic shows her clearly remembering her past as Ranger General and from Edge of Night we can take that she was at least very ruthless even then, spending her fellow elves like arrows in her quiver. Granted she was a military leader and confronted with an advancing enemy, so I guess she had to make sacrifices.
    im gonna put everything together because u keep mentioning world of warcraft story, which again I already agreed on shes bad.

    sadly u can't put the two franchises apart...even thou they have different writers ...and different take on the characters...

    what I can say are two things... first, u mention the greater good, could u tell me what the greater good is?...if you tell me something cheesy like Azeroth...
    that works for lord of the rings where only two forces (good and evil) collide

    what made warcraft 3 so cool, is that we didn't have two forces....we have many ... 4 main ones were human, undead, orcs and night elves. among others
    and with the exception of the legion, none was depicted as evil...they were all shades of grey...even the scourge were merely serving their masters.

    so everyone had their own interests... the greater good is their own people they don't care about the other races....at the end they banded together and stood limited against the burning legion because they would die otherwise...

    thrall killed humans... Jaina killed orcs...Tyrande killed humans and orcs...

    even Arthas at the end helped indirectly to vanish the legion... because he gives a time rats ass about Azeroth? XDDDDDDDDD

    ultimately what I can tell you is that if you think the guys who couldn't put out a good raid finale cinematic together...
    and instead decided to rip-off the fall of Sauron from Lord of the rings are good writers and the story is good...
    well that's up to you
    the fact they did that, show just how much appreciation and respect blizzard have for their fans...and it's not only their fault alone...because so-called fans accept it and don't raise the bar...

    enjoy your 5stars story.

  18. #458
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA-US
    Posts
    27,010
    Quote Originally Posted by Wangming View Post
    Wasn't it obvious that my entire post was ironic and making fun of the dumb excuse OP tries to use to paint Sylvanas as anything beside a villain?
    I figured as much due to the extreme conclusion, but I thought it deserved elucidation in any case - just in case your sarcasm was lost in translation.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

  19. #459
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    I figured as much due to the extreme conclusion, but I thought it deserved elucidation in any case - just in case your sarcasm was lost in translation.
    Since we established a long time now that Sylvannas is a villain I wonder. What can she do to be reedeemed to the eyes of Azeroth? I mean something like huge.

  20. #460
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA-US
    Posts
    27,010
    Quote Originally Posted by Darth-Piekus View Post
    Since we established a long time now that Sylvannas is a villain I wonder. What can she do to be reedeemed to the eyes of Azeroth? I mean something like huge.
    Sylvanas' only redemption, if she's to have such a thing, would be in her own final death. Sacrificing herself to undo the damage caused by her and the Jailer, knowing that it will destroy her with no hope of resurrection or any type of reward. Heralded or lauded by no one, and committed to history only as the villain she was.
    "Here lies a toppled god.
    His fall was not a small one.
    We did but build his pedestal,
    A narrow and a tall one."

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •