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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    1. "They must have killed children! We don't see it but they had to have!" No.
    2." They but the carriages!" After making sure to scare everyone off. Plus the carriages are supply carriages, people don't go in those... Nor do many races stuff their kids in with piles of boxes filled with explosives and weapons.
    Do you know that there were no children on Teldrassil? The only night elf child in entire history of the game that happened to be on Teldrassil was a teenager 8 years before War of Thorns. Conclusion: no children died on Teldrassil.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  2. #162
    I am Murloc! Varodoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    should they even be pissed at him???

    he never tried to conquer Azeroth or to destroy it.

    the Legion lacked one cutscene where people still viewed him as someone who did bad stuff so they still hated him, especially Night Elves.
    it's like we just welcomed him with open arms.
    Who cares why they're pissed at him, Tyrande at this point is pissed at anyone. I'm just saying that Illidan did not redeem himself in the eyes of anyone but a few people. He will still be known as "The Betrayer", even though without his help Sargeras would've won.

    I'm basing this on the quest after Antorus where you bring his memories to Malfurion and Tyrande, who are still cold towards him.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    Although that wasn't pointed at me, I'll give a question:
    Does that mean they had right and weren't evil for doing such a thing?

    If someone raid some place, does that mean other people can experiment on their prey?

    Do homeowners have right to experiment on burglars(if they catch them) and they wouldn't be labeled as someone evil?
    Well, in American law you can kill all the burglars. I would feel no regret if I tested some things on them. After all, science requires sacrifices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    but are horde vermin even considered ''people''?
    Forsaken are. The rest are inhuman scum, just like night elves.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  4. #164
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Sylvanas was never a good person and she was presented more as a psychopathic, self-serving crone than anybody remotely benevolent, even to the forsaken.

    Get over it already.
    I mean I'd argue that the forsaken seemed to have seen her as an almost messianic figure, the hero that rescued them from the Scourge's mind control. They cherished that freedom of mind and built the identity of the forsaken around it, but we never saw Sylvanas actually agree to those same ideals.

    We've generally seen Sylvanas through that lens, and brushed her actual actions of mind-raping her own populace under the rug. As far as I'm concerned, all BFA did was pull that from the darkened corridors where she hid it out into the light where the other Horde leaders could be horrified by it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  5. #165
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Do you know that there were no children on Teldrassil? The only night elf child in entire history of the game that happened to be on Teldrassil was a teenager 8 years before War of Thorns. Conclusion: no children died on Teldrassil.
    They awakened back at the Temple, with Mia kneeling over them and carrying a night elf child. She asked Astarii to hurry and evacuate but, exhausted, she fainted. Mia and the child were subsequently trapped underneath some collapsing rubble, causing Astarii and a night elf mage to try to dig her and the night elf infant out.

    At that moment, her husband Genn emerged from the Stormwind portal and rushed to her. Genn managed to dig her out and told Mia she couldn't stay in Darnassus any longer. Genn urged her to escape to the human capital of Stormwind, but a half-conscious and injured Mia told Genn to take the night elf child and leaver her. Genn refused and carried both the night elf child and Mia, determined not to lose either of them. Genn urged Astarii to escape with them, but Astarii and the other priestesses were determined to stay behind and pray for the comfort of those that could not be evacuated. Genn wished for Astarii's goddess to watch over her one last time before Genn, Mia, the Alliance champion, and the night elf child escaped the burning city together.[5][33]

    yes, there were children on teldrassil, learn to read the book.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Who cares why they're pissed at him, Tyrande at this point is pissed at anyone. I'm just saying that Illidan did not redeem himself in the eyes of anyone but a few people. He will still be known as "The Betrayer", even though without his help Sargeras would've won.

    I'm basing this on the quest after Antorus where you bring his memories to Malfurion and Tyrande, who are still cold towards him.
    oh yeah, sure.

    just pointing out the difference between Illidan and Sylvanas.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    It was not an invasion. Thrall sent them to get some wood. Elves attacked workers.
    It is an invasion. The Warsong Outriders invaded Ashenvale and cut down the sacred trees of the Night Elves. It wasn't even Thrall who sent them, it was the Warsong Clan who took initiative, because Thrall knew better not to invade the land of the Night Elves. (source)

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    An outpost to protect the caravans. Also, there are also civilians, like inkeeper or traders.
    It was still located near Alliance Territory, maybe the Horde should've presented it as a village and not as an armed outpost.

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Jaina also shot fleeing civilians. Silver Covenant attacked unarmed Sunreavers.
    No she didn't, she imprisoned the ones that fled or surrendered. And yeah the Silver Covenant was acting out of line, blame Vereesa.

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Goblins only gathered some new ores that appeared. That was simple scientific research. Just after Malfurion sent his druids, Hamuul Runetotem came with other druids and shamans.
    The Explorers' League got to the Sword first, and they were attacked by Bilgewater Goblins. The Alliance killed the Goblins in retaliation.

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    If chopping wood in totally empty forest is evil, why does the Alliance have rights to start excavations on tauren territory?

    Also, Theramore is nothing more than a couple of mudhuts with blue roofs.
    Theramore was way more than a couple of 'mudhuts'. People here are really condoning atomic bomb droppings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Do you know that there were no children on Teldrassil? The only night elf child in entire history of the game that happened to be on Teldrassil was a teenager 8 years before War of Thorns. Conclusion: no children died on Teldrassil.
    As already mentioned there was the Night elf baby that barely escaped with Genn and Mia. After the portal to Stormwind closed, a Night elf mother and her young son entered the Temple of Elune. Both of them died in Astarii Starseeker's arms. So yes, there definitely were Night Elf children on Teldrassil.

  8. #168
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    It was not an invasion. Thrall sent them to get some wood. Elves attacked workers.
    Hey i didnt break and enter invade your home, i just walked in and took all your stuff without asking, lol why did you call the police, what is wrong with you? i just went to get some stuff from your house.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Goblins only gathered some new ores that appeared. That was simple scientific research. Just after Malfurion sent his druids, Hamuul Runetotem came with other druids and shamans.
    They gathered ALL of it, knowing it was powerful, and attacked ANYONE who entered the zone, in attempt to prevent anyone else from finding out what was going on in the zone.

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Hey i didnt break and enter invade your home, i just walked in and took all your stuff without asking, lol why did you call the police, what is wrong with you? i just went to get some stuff from your house.

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    They gathered ALL of it, knowing it was powerful, and attacked ANYONE who entered the zone, in attempt to prevent anyone else from finding out what was going on in the zone.
    The Horde can do no wrong in the eyes of its fanbase.

  10. #170
    tbf Night Elves weren't part of the Alliance back during WC3.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    They awakened back at the Temple, with Mia kneeling over them and carrying a night elf child. She asked Astarii to hurry and evacuate but, exhausted, she fainted. Mia and the child were subsequently trapped underneath some collapsing rubble, causing Astarii and a night elf mage to try to dig her and the night elf infant out.

    At that moment, her husband Genn emerged from the Stormwind portal and rushed to her. Genn managed to dig her out and told Mia she couldn't stay in Darnassus any longer. Genn urged her to escape to the human capital of Stormwind, but a half-conscious and injured Mia told Genn to take the night elf child and leaver her. Genn refused and carried both the night elf child and Mia, determined not to lose either of them. Genn urged Astarii to escape with them, but Astarii and the other priestesses were determined to stay behind and pray for the comfort of those that could not be evacuated. Genn wished for Astarii's goddess to watch over her one last time before Genn, Mia, the Alliance champion, and the night elf child escaped the burning city together.[5][33]

    yes, there were children on teldrassil, learn to read the book.
    I forgot to read Elegy. I admit. However, it proves my point that game doesn't show children where they are. Stonespire surely had children.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moonrage View Post
    It is an invasion. The Warsong Outriders invaded Ashenvale and cut down the sacred trees of the Night Elves. It wasn't even Thrall who sent them, it was the Warsong Clan who took initiative, because Thrall knew better not to invade the land of the Night Elves.
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Spirit...vale_(WC3_Orc)
    The attacked orcs without bothering to even show themselves. Cowards.
    It was still located near Alliance Territory, maybe the Horde should've presented it as a village and not as an armed outpost.
    Outpost was necessary to protect the merchants.
    No she didn't, she imprisoned the ones that fled or surrendered. And yeah the Silver Covenant was acting out of line, blame Vereesa.
    No. The also shot some of them. Maybe Alliance quest was censored?
    The Explorers' League got to the Sword first, and they were attacked by Bilgewater Goblins. The Alliance killed the Goblins in retaliation.
    I am not sure whether they didn't come at the same time. Gallywix sent people to research azerite some time before recruiting Grizzek who was the one to ask him to kidnap Sapphronetta.

    Theramore was way more than a couple of 'mudhuts'. People here are really condoning atomic bomb droppings.
    A couple of mudhuts. Nothing more.

    As already mentioned there was the Night elf baby that barely escaped with Genn and Mia. After the portal to Stormwind closed, a Night elf mother and her young son entered the Temple of Elune. Both of them died in Astarii Starseeker's arms. So yes, there definitely were Night Elf children on Teldrassil.
    So were in Taurajo and Stonespire Tribe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FelPlague View Post
    Hey i didnt break and enter invade your home, i just walked in and took all your stuff without asking, lol why did you call the police, what is wrong with you? i just went to get some stuff from your house.
    Is it a house if it has no door, no walls, no roof and no lines on the ground? No, it is public space.
    They gathered ALL of it, knowing it was powerful, and attacked ANYONE who entered the zone, in attempt to prevent anyone else from finding out what was going on in the zone.
    Didn't Anduin send a group of dwarves and gnomes for the same reason? He also gave them night elves as an army.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    tbf Night Elves weren't part of the Alliance back during WC3.
    But they joined. It is the same Tyrande who never apologised.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Spirit...vale_(WC3_Orc)
    The attacked orcs without bothering to even show themselves. Cowards.
    They attacked a bunch of monstrous looking outlanders that still reeked of demon blood. And I was talking about after the Third War. The Warsong Outriders kept invading Ashenvale and waging war with the Silverwing Sentinels, even Thrall disagreed with their actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Outpost was necessary to protect the merchants.

    No. The also shot some of them. Maybe Alliance quest was censored?
    Compliant Sunreavers were imprisoned, while the ones that resisted were killed. Seems reasonable enough, especially after Jaina was betrayed by the Horde, yet again.

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    I am not sure whether they didn't come at the same time. Gallywix sent people to research azerite some time before recruiting Grizzek who was the one to ask him to kidnap Sapphronetta.
    It's literally stated that the Explorers' League was attacked by Bilgewater Goblins.

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    A couple of mudhuts. Nothing more.
    Don't even know what to say here, except that mud huts exclusively belong to the Horde.

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    So were in Taurajo and Stonespire Tribe.
    Taurajo and Stonespire were camps/outposts, Teldrassil was an entire zone.

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Is it a house if it has no door, no walls, no roof and no lines on the ground? No, it is public space.

    Didn't Anduin send a group of dwarves and gnomes for the same reason? He also gave them night elves as an army.
    Yes, and as I already explained, the Dwarves and Night Elf Sentinels were attacked by the Bilgewater Goblins.

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    But they joined. It is the same Tyrande who never apologised.
    Why would Tyrande need to apologize to anyone?

  13. #173
    I have no idea how this last page has managed to be an argument about whether there were children in Teldrassil.

    There was at least 982 civilians in there according to the alliance-side quest (including the treants, as saving them counts as quest credit). It was bad. I feel like that's enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    But they joined. It is the same Tyrande who never apologised.
    No need to apologise since she never lead the attack in Ashenvale.

  15. #175
    It doesn't matter what the original intent was for her character arc. The devs needed another obvious villain shoehorned in so they did it the only way they know how. Pointless over the top apparent evil actions and badly explained reasons.

    Like Kael suddenly siding with the legion and Illidan effectively just being a loot pinata.. like Garrosh suddenly going evil and trying to gather powerful artifacts and focusing on just his followers.

    Similar characters that displayed almost the same tropes are ignored or left alone while getting more moderate story development (or just ignored) once the writing team's picked the next villain.

    So next up after Sylvanas is going to be Baine since he's clearly the next warchief despite all the talk of council this or council that. The plan's always to pick from the horde leadership and they managed to remove 3 of the 5 leading figures of the horde in one story arc and only pad the numbers by forcing non-horde entities into the horde cause of name recognition (while ignoring the established cast anyways).

  16. #176
    Titan Daemos daemonium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Do you know that there were no children on Teldrassil? The only night elf child in entire history of the game that happened to be on Teldrassil was a teenager 8 years before War of Thorns. Conclusion: no children died on Teldrassil.
    Elegy literally has a night elf baby in it. The game isn’t to scale never has been going off of things like “I didn’t see an npc of it” is incredibly stupid.

  17. #177
    I am Murloc! Varodoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    No need to apologise since she never lead the attack in Ashenvale.
    She needs to apologise for... defending her sacred forests from deforestation caused by fel aliens?

    Yeah see that's why I have many Horde fanboys blocked. This stuff makes you lose brain cells.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  18. #178
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    should they even be pissed at him???

    he never tried to conquer Azeroth or to destroy it.
    destroying the Lich King without safety nets and also instigating a global flooding = destroying the world

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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Jaina also shot fleeing civilians. Silver Covenant attacked unarmed Sunreavers.
    If I'm not mistaken it was retconned into Jaina teleporting Sunreavers to the prison, but yes the High Elves massacred the Blood Elves
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

  19. #179
    I am Murloc! Varodoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    destroying the Lich King without safety nets and also instigating a global flooding = destroying the world

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    If I'm not mistaken it was retconned into Jaina teleporting Sunreavers to the prison, but yes the High Elves massacred the Blood Elves
    I mean, was it really such a huge deal? He only damaged a shithole like Northrend where nobody lived. I think we can excuse Illidan in this case.
    How could I ever have loved someone so weak? Let us hope Arator did not inherit your cowardice.

  20. #180
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Do you know that there were no children on Teldrassil? The only night elf child in entire history of the game that happened to be on Teldrassil was a teenager 8 years before War of Thorns. Conclusion: no children died on Teldrassil.
    wasn't there a dying mother with her son in the Darnassus Temple and then Elune intervened to make their deaths painless
    Lightbound Orcs > High Elves https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ace-suggestion

    Blizzard should realize that Alteraci Humans will fulfill the Young Adult Dystopia Anarchy fantasy for Warcraft

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