Sylvanas Character Assassination

[Mehrunes]

where can I read this one

The completion dialogue of https://wow.gamepedia.com/Unfair_Trade_(Dalaran) And for the record, in one of the concurrent quests Vereesa gleefully ordered the player to exterminate those "lying rats". If that sort of maniac questions your methods you should pause for a moment.

[Ielenia]

The completion dialogue of https://wow.gamepedia.com/Unfair_Trade_(Dalaran) And for the record, in one of the concurrent quests Vereesa gleefully ordered the player to exterminate those "lying rats". If that sort of maniac questions your methods you should pause for a moment.

If Vereesa's preferred methods is to outright kill the Sunreavers, I don't see anything strange or surprising with her "questioning Jaina's methods" as I'm sure she wouldn't agree with the idea of incarcerating them, which were Jaina's "method".

[Mehrunes]

If Vereesa's preferred methods is to outright kill the Sunreavers, I don't see anything strange or surprising with her "questioning Jaina's methods" as I'm sure she wouldn't agree with the idea of incarcerating them, which were Jaina's "method".

Except for the part here the quest in which she makes that comment isn't about incarcerating anyone.

[Ardenaso]

The completion dialogue of https://wow.gamepedia.com/Unfair_Trade_(Dalaran) And for the record, in one of the concurrent quests Vereesa gleefully ordered the player to exterminate those "lying rats". If that sort of maniac questions your methods you should pause for a moment.

Thanks! 10 characters

[Ielenia]

Except for the part here the quest in which she makes that comment isn't about incarcerating anyone.

I honestly don't know what you mean, considering that, while you're doing the quests from Vereesa, Jaina is outside, teleporting remaining Sunreavers she finds that did not leave the city into the Violet Hold.

[Ardenaso]

Except for the part here the quest in which she makes that comment isn't about incarcerating anyone.

I'm thinking she still wanted to de-green eye and de-Horde them but probably thought "fukk it Horde is Horde I kill green eye for Alliance dixx"

[Thage]

Sylvanas = Orgrim Doomhammer.
One is praised the other one is hated. Why? Racism?

Sylvanas isn't remotely on Orgrim's level. Orgrim tried to pull the Horde back from 'stab kill bleed wahey,' and most of his campaign in the northern Eastern Kingdoms was so the Horde would have enough land for those left behind on Draenor to settle and start anew. Orgrim began actively exiling the darkest elements of the Horde after killing the Shadow Council and only kept Gul'dan around because he absolutely, one-hundred-percent needed Gul'dan's loyalists in the short term (and made no secret to anyone, Gul'dan included, that he intended to cave Gul'dan's head in the second he caught a whiff of duplicity off the warlock). When Gul'dan split his forces off, Orgrim left him to die and kept pushing forward for a better future for the Horde. And even then, when the Alliance and Horde met in battle, Orgrim strived to keep the Horde conducting itself as proper warriors rather than the vicious brutes Gul'dan and Blackhand made them into (in order to better demonstrate this shift, novels and later portrayals retconned Orgrim's duel with Lothar into a fair fight rather than one where Lothar got blindsided).

As soon as Sylvanas was handed the reins to the Horde, she immediately began taking steps to further her omnicidal agenda, cutting deals with death entities like Helya and seeking to enslave Eyir. After the defeat of the Burning Legion, Sylvanas threw the Horde right into another war, not to secure the Horde's future (despite that being the rhetoric she used outside her innermost circle) against the 'threat of the Alliance' (despite Anduin being a known peacemonger and the rest of the Alliance at the time being perfectly willing to take their cues from him) but because she needed a meat grinder to kill as many people as possible. She used a minor conflict in the far-flung reaches of Silithus as justification to attack Teldrassil, culminating in burning the night elves' primary civilian population center, again not for the rhetoric she used in public, but because every person killed on her order caused her to grow in power. The entirety of the Fourth War/Blood War, as overseen by Sylvanas, was a meat grinder for no other purpose than to be a meat grinder, including dragging unaffiliated third parties into the meat grinder to make it as bloody as possible.

Orgrim engaged in a bloody war of expansion because he had no other feasible choice if he wanted to secure a future for the Horde beyond being Gul'dan's murderpuppets. Sylvanas engaged in a bloody war designed to kill as many people as feasibly possible because it secured more power for her specifically at the expense of both factions and several previously-unaffiliated third parties. Nobody came out better for having joined their respective factions except the vulpera and mechagnomes, who joined up after the meat grinder was finished and everyone was picking up the pieces.

[Soon-TM]

"fukk it Horde is Horde I kill green eye for Alliance dixx"

Well, that's her usual mood, along with taking care of her children - except when she mysteriously forgets even having children in the first place The de-Horde part is more in line with Alleria, and especially Umbric (until now, at least).

[Malix Farwin]

OP dunno what you were expecting here, its clear that what Blizzard wanted to do with the character worked. You can tell by the reactions to your post. Now people think she has "always been bad" because of BfA writing and everything example they pull it from is(you guessed it), BFA. Not even noticing the irony of their arguments, how badly the character was written to "become the villain that these people wanted", and how boring a "Villain" she is. Its cool if you never liked Silvanas but the character was completely ruined in one expansion and everything about the expansion was completely overshadowed by the poor development of 1 character.

[Varodoc]

OP dunno what you were expecting here, its clear that what Blizzard wanted to do with the character worked. You can tell by the reactions to your post. Now people think she has "always been bad" because of BfA writing and everything example they pull it from is(you guessed it), BFA. Not even noticing the irony of their arguments, how badly the character was written to "become the villain that these people wanted", and how boring a "Villain" she is. Its cool if you never liked Silvanas but the character was completely ruined in one expansion and everything about the expansion was completely overshadowed by the poor development of 1 character.

Did you miss all the posts that did not use BfA examples to prove she's evil, so the majority of the posts here? She's been doing evil shit since Classic.

[Malix Farwin]

Did you miss all the posts that did not use BfA examples to prove she's evil, so the majority of the posts here? She's been doing evil shit since Classic.

You missed my point entirely while at the same time proving exactly what i meant.

[Varodoc]

You missed my point entirely while at the same time proving exactly what i meant.

You said "people now the think she's always been bad due to BfA writing and every example they pulled to prove she's bad comes from BfA". That is not true at all. She's been a controversial character since Classic and many, myself included, proved how she was already doing terrible things long before BfA.

[Machismo]

Sylvanas isn't a villain. She's not, she REALLY isn't, despite Blizzard making you think she is. She isn't.

Let's talk about some facts here, right? Ever since... Let's say Battle for Azeroth, they've been trying hard to get you to believe Sylvanas doesn't have a good bone in her frail, withered body. Yet even if she doesn't, it's not her fault. At all. In the slightest.
She does what she does because she refuses to die. She can't, she doesn't WANT to die. Because she knows if she does, she'll be tortured for all eternity. If you knew what awaited you after death was pain and misery, would you do any different?

Cataclysm to Legion Sylvanas displayed this. It showed Sylvanas as a leader desperate to protect her people, and especially herself. She. Cannot. Die. And who's fault is it, that she is forced to live eternally? Arthas Menethil, the guy who brought her back from the dead and forced her to assist him in the assault on Quel'thalas. By all accounts, Sylvanas is a victim, and while you can argue her methods up until BFA have been dubious, morally-unsound, and likely dangerous to other races, they all followed the similar mantra of survival.

Then BFA came around and Sylvanas decided to systematically force every goddamn race on Azeroth to want her dead! First she burns Teldrassil to the ground for absolutely no reason, desecrated her people's only home, raised the corpse of Jaina's brother and force them to ASSASSINATE her, and then killed a very, VERY reputable and beloved icon of the Horde because he had the audacity to question her leadership. And now she's literally working with some random fuckass nobody's ever heard of to justify a huge power spike so she could waltz up to Icecrown, break into the afterlife and rule as Queen of the Assholes.

This is actual textbook character assassination. They are treating Sylvanas with no depth, no nuance, no grace or tact and just saying "Well she's evil now so go and fight her in a raid now lolbai"

Is anyone else really pissed about this??

Ummm, she murdered innocent children with a smile on her face.

It's their character, and she's evil as shit.

[Malix Farwin]

You said "people now the think she's always been bad due to BfA writing and every example they pulled to prove she's bad comes from BfA". That is not true at all. She's been a controversial character since Classic and many, myself included, proved how she was already doing terrible things long before BfA.

No she has always been a grey area character, yea you can pull bad things she has done but also you could pull good things as well and the things she has done has always had a point to them that was never about giving her more power. So yea thanks for proving my point.

[Varodoc]

No she has always been a grey area character, yea you can pull bad things she has done but also you could pull good things as well and the things she has done has always had a point to them that was never about giving her more power. So yea thanks for proving my point.

She literally went to hell. So no, she has not "always been a grey character". Do you even know the character you're defending? She's always sought more power, either to get revenge or to avoid the Hell she deserves.

[spalernTJ]

I'm sorry, but the moment she ordered the burning of Teldrassil and a countless amount of civilian people - Including Children, elderly, parents, herbalists, veterans and whatever you can imagine - She became a full fledged villain. You can't just kill the majority of an entire civilization and get the "For the greater good" treatment. Stop trying, she's evil, whatever her "Destination" may be, the path is carved in pure evil villainy.

[FelPlague]

Restless Scourge
Extinction for Tuskarr, Drakkari, Human Trappers, Vrykul, Taunka, Bael'gun's Dwarves, Frostborne etc.
Global flooding / rising sea levels that poses risk to Menethil Harbor, Darkshore, Theramore, Stormwind, etc.
Unleash the Faceless Ones and maybe even Yogg'sarron himself (it's heavily implied by Bael'gun that Illidan awakened the Faceless Ones)
Restless Scourge
Possible damage to the Emerald Dream
Possible madness of Malfurion due to trauma
Restless Scourge

i love how you make up stuff with this
"Restless scourge" you mean dead scourge
"Extinction of XYZ" drakkari were evil so.... vrykul also evil, the rest woulda been wiped out but...
"Global flooding" not exactly proven true
"Unleash yog and the faceless ones" he was unleashed anyways... so literally doesent matter
"Restless scourge" oh look, trying to make a point by repeating it, doesent make it true.
"Possible damage" yeah you are making that up
"possible madness of malf" again making stuff up
and oh look you repeat it again


no, ending the lich king woulda been so much better.

[Malix Farwin]

Regardless of how you feel about the character, She was Assassinated. Her story had more depth and was much more than just bad guy doing bad things for generic reasons.

- - - Updated - - -

She literally went to hell. So no, she has not "always been a grey character". Do you even know the character you're defending? She's always sought more power, either to get revenge or to avoid the Hell she deserves.

Rofl... okay. The writers called her Morally Grey, you say she never has been but i guess your opinion matters more because i guess reasons.

[Minikin]

While she definitely leaned towards the more questionable side (i mean shes a zombie what do people expect? she plant trees and stop global warming?), she wasnt shown to be actively evil until more recently. Meaning parts of Cata, then legion and finally now.

The problem is there have been times when shes shown to have a good or ok side, like regretting not saving Varian on the broken shore. But then at the same time done what she did in BfA.

So either:
- the devs screwed up huge which left players associating with pre BfA sylvanas and scratching their heads at post BfA sylvanas.
OR
- they didnt screw up and people just got a self fulfiling prophecy regarding sylvanas and either 1. Accepted it or 2. Hated it.

the aftermath? 3 threads a day on sylvanas' motivations. 2 threads a week of if shes justified. 1 thread a week claiming shes not evil. But thats been finalized. She IS evil. We can claim multiple issues like "writers suck!" "retcon!" etc etc etc. Sure. But in the end thats that. She is evil, the story sucking doesnt change that anymore than changing Garrosh's fate. Yea we can complain "another horde warchief axed!" but thats beside the point.

As per the threads main title? Character Assassination. Id say anyone who says her character wasnt assassinated is being a bit biased and supporting the story devs who think that they did a good job with BfAs story.

[Malix Farwin]

I'm sorry, but the moment she ordered the burning of Teldrassil and a countless amount of civilian people - Including Children, elderly, parents, herbalists, veterans and whatever you can imagine - She became a full fledged villain. You can't just kill the majority of an entire civilization and get the "For the greater good" treatment. Stop trying, she's evil, whatever her "Destination" may be, the path is carved in pure evil villainy.

When did that take place? Exactly.