"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
I mean, it's a nonsensical scene from top to bottom, from the question of how Saurfang could predict what her reaction would be ("or perhaps...only one" makes it clear that the mak'gora is not just a deathwish on his part) to Sylvanas's instant willingness to just fold all the cards and fly away because she made an eyebrow-raising comment, to the fact that the people on the wall were far out of earshot and wouldn't have heard her.
You may say it's a really bad comment, but it's her talking smack directly to Saurfang, a traitor -- "your Horde", etc. Realistically (and again, no one but the people in her immediate vicinity would even have heard her) it would not have caused her Forsaken loyalists to suddenly see her as a villain.
But I don't want to discuss that scene because it's sludge not worth scrutiny. I just meant that it's funny that the loyalist players have stuck with her despite genocides and plague bombs yet the writers think that a moment of smack talk aimed at a traitor would suddenly make them change their minds. Especially her Forsaken, to whom the orcish MUH HONORZ stuff is meaningless.
I think Saurfang's goal was to sacrifice himself to rouse the Horde to its better self, hoping against hope that the Horde would see Sylvanas' cruel and dishonorable conduct and reject her accordingly - Sylvanas sabotaging herself in her anger was a bonus, and Saurfang's triumphant smirk in that moment shows it. I don't think he planned that by any means, but it was his hope Sylvanas would reveal something of her true nature (which it so happens she did in spades).
People were all along the battlements of Orgrimmar, within easy earshot of the battle (and Sylvanas doesn't whisper it or anything like that). Her own standard-bearer is also right there, and her side-eye to Sylvanas shows that her comment wasn't just received as smack-talk to Saurfang. The words cut pretty deep, especially to the Forsaken who already deep down internalize a fear that they are nothing as mere undead shades of their lives. I think support for Sylvanas was already balanced pretty precariously, and this was just a tipping point for many (though not all).
Orcish honor doesn't matter to the Forsaken, but Sylvanas' patronage and the idea that she fights on their behalf certainly does. When you rule by force of personality, practically in the manner of a cult, having your true thoughts unveiled to your worshipers can cause some real damage.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
The situation looked similar to if she were down on a football field and the people on the wall were up on high seating. Without megaphones/sound systems, you can't hear someone muttering a monologue at that distance. Yes, the bannerbearer heard, and so did Thrall and Anduin. But the banner-bearer saying this is unlikely to result in a miraculous political swerve like what's shown in the cutscene (even if they don't succeed at silencing the bannerbearer first), and Thrall or Anduin saying it is easily dismissable as propaganda.
And that's how they tried to paint it, with BtS suddenly announcing that Sylvanas runs a tyrannical security state etc etc. What it runs counter to is all the lore we had prior to BFA.I think support for Sylvanas was already balanced pretty precariously, and this was just a tipping point for many (though not all).
IRL politics can provide some counter-examples.When you rule by force of personality, practically in the manner of a cult, having your true thoughts unveiled to your worshipers can cause some real damage.
She's pretty far from "muttering," and it's later obvious that the people on the battlements heard her well enough.
"Before the Storm" occurs well before BfA even begins, and her Mak'gora with Saurfang is after a long and grueling war spanning the face of Azeroth. It's an arc of descent we see several times - from 8.1 to 8.1.5 to 8.2 and so on.
Unfortunately so, but a few exceptions don't really undermine the rule. Many people have been set back or even ruined by supplying the unvarnished truth in a moment of anger or fit of pique.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
The people who throw the biggest tantrums and cry the loudest are Sylvie haters. Everything she does, they take very personally. She invokes some really violent reactions, which is hilarious to me. I meanwhile, will be enjoying the show and you won't hear a peep from me when they kill her off. To the naysayers, refer to my avatar.
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!
Can't wait for sylvie to still be alive after this expansion ends. Cries of haters will flood the world.
I don't hate Sylvanas, personally speaking - I think she's a fine character, although I don't like her on a personal level (I find her personality and actions odious in the extreme). I do however think she's been in the spotlight way too long, looming large in what will be 3 back-to-back expansions now. It's time for her to take her final bow and exit the stage, in whatever form that happens to take.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
Killing her is one way to do it, sure. Oblivion, permanent imprisonment, or transfiguring her into someone or something else entirely are examples of others. Saurfang was really only a fixture in one expansion, namely BfA; and he died after his long season in the spotlight. Same with Garrosh, who loomed large in three expansions as well (Cata, MoP, and WoD) but finally met his end in WoD. What's good for the goose as the old saying goes.
Last edited by Aucald; 2020-04-09 at 04:10 PM.
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!
"We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.
From the space that is everywhere and nowhere, the crooked shitposter feasts on memes.
He has no eyes to see, but he dreams of infinite memeing and trolling.
People will cry either way. She gets redeemed, we cry. She dies, they cry. The real question is for how long that will last, because by 10.0 I hope Sylvanas threads like this one can finally vanish.
The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!