Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
LastLast
  1. #41
    They rez and return all the time like cheapos, what's there to be emotional about?

  2. #42
    Over 9000! Mirishka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Get off my lawn!
    Posts
    9,923
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Jackson View Post
    And no random Billy won't come back for dinner but at this point, someone could bring him back if they wanted to. Hell that would actually be an interesting quest, some mom reads up on some necro shit to bring her dead son back and he returns Khal Drogo style and we have to help her kill him.
    Now that would be cool.
    So you made a topic to complain about the triviality of death in WoW and how death should have meaning, only to literally minutes later suggest a quest where a mom resurrects her dead son that we have to kill because 'that would be cool'.

    Its like some of you don't even know what you want mid-complaining.
    My greatest fear is that one day, my MMO-Champion ignore list will run out of space.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Jackson View Post
    Ah yes I remember that quest, it was on the west coast of the Wetlands with murlocs around right?
    Yeah I just don't remember the details, but I guess that explains it, though why it's such an obscure mention of such an important fact and not mentioned at all pre-ICC in wotlk is kinda weird as far as storytelling goes.
    I think it's because it doesn't really make sense when taken at face value. The Terenas statue depicts a young Paladin but Paladins were only a thing during and after the second war. Considering only 14 years passed between the Second and the Third War, it would be impossible for Terenas to be a "young Paladin" since Terenas more than 70 years old at the time of the Third War.
    This leaves us with basically four options:
    (1) The Statue depicts Arthas - but this begs the question why the player character and the quest giver would mistake it for Terenas, considering that they should also roughly know when the Paladin Order was founded
    (2) It's an oversight made by Blizzard
    (3) Paladins were around for a much longer time than we originally thought but it was reserved to a much smaller group of people and wasn't a real branch of military clerics
    (4) Terenas was depicted as a Paladin as some form of idealization

    This is what I really like about older lore. It's more ambiguous and leaves more things to the imagination of the players. Makes the world feel much more bigger and deeper.
    Last edited by Nerovar; 2020-03-28 at 02:12 PM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Yeah, I agree. Even though Varian's death was well made and very impactful, it gets diminished by the fact that they show us his smiling ghost to tell us "he may be dead but he's fine so you don't need to feel bad about it". It takes away from the emotional weight. It's also why I think no fantasy universe should ever allow you to explore the afterlife.
    I never took it as literal but more as Anduin just seeing what he wanted to see or the light showing him what he wanted to see.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    I never took it as literal but more as Anduin just seeing what he wanted to see or the light showing him what he wanted to see.
    Fair enough.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Fair enough.
    But I absolutely agree with the sentiment. The afterlife being a physical place to visit just cheapens the whole weight of losing an important character. I can see the argument for undeath but only in certain circumstances.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    So you made a topic to complain about the triviality of death in WoW and how death should have meaning, only to literally minutes later suggest a quest where a mom resurrects her dead son that we have to kill because 'that would be cool'.

    Its like some of you don't even know what you want mid-complaining.
    Because in this case the kid wouldn't come back happy or as a ghost talking to us as if he never left, it would be a subject of horror and showing us why this is not something to be done lightly.

    But good job on the shitty analysis just to create some drama. I imagine the thread will go downhill from here thanks to shit like this.

  8. #48
    Well duh, Warcraft became next Dragon Ball years ago. Now we can even visit Afterlife, which is next logical step to be honest.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Varitok View Post
    But I absolutely agree with the sentiment. The afterlife being a physical place to visit just cheapens the whole weight of losing an important character. I can see the argument for undeath but only in certain circumstances.
    I mean, Undeath is just a big part of Warcraft lore at this point and it's probably one of the few they've handled not that badly in my opinion (up until BfA). But this is also why there needs to be a big difference between Undeath and life in Wacraft lore for it to make sense. If Undeath wasn't the most horrible, shitty way to exist then why wouldn't everyone want to see their loved ones return as Undead (except for some "irrational" anti-undead bigotry )?
    This is why characters like Calia Menethil are so detrimental to the lore. She serves no purpose but to diminish and blur the predefined characterstics of Undeath just to have her as a back-up plot device. She hella thicc tho.
    Last edited by Nerovar; 2020-03-28 at 02:45 PM.

  10. #50
    This is how stories in persistent worlds work. The alternative is the good guys never die and the bad guys escape at the end of every episode.

    People who get attracted to a story favor those characters that the story started with. It happens, but it more rare that they get more attached to new characters. Blizzard has said as much, tough getting players as excited for new characters they created in WoW, versus characters from the RTS games. Marvel's said as much saying that's why they decided to change characters, like the new Iron Person; Spiderman; Thor type, etc. They noted that when they created new characters very few people bought those comics, so they just altered the old characters instead.

    So if you don't like type of story telling, where you have to suspend disbelief for your favorite characters to persist, comics & other types of persistent stories are probably not for you. Find a book or movie or game where the story begins and ends, then find another story.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    This is how stories in persistent worlds work. The alternative is the good guys never die and the bad guys escape at the end of every episode.

    People who get attracted to a story favor those characters that the story started with. It happens, but it more rare that they get more attached to new characters. Blizzard has said as much, tough getting players as excited for new characters they created in WoW, versus characters from the RTS games. Marvel's said as much saying that's why they decided to change characters, like the new Iron Person; Spiderman; Thor type, etc. They noted that when they created new characters very few people bought those comics, so they just altered the old characters instead.

    So if you don't like type of story telling, where you have to suspend disbelief for your favorite characters to persist, comics & other types of persistent stories are probably not for you. Find a book or movie or game where the story begins and ends, then find another story.
    Is it though? Warcraft pretty much tells closed stories that don't really rely on big characters. Those usually aren't the big selling point (except for expansions like Wotlk maybe). The world itself is much more important than the individual characters. No one plays WoW expecting some Marvel like super hero mashup though I guess that's what their marketing team is going for these days.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Is it though? Warcraft pretty much tells closed stories that don't really rely on big characters. Those usually aren't the big selling point (except for expansions like Wotlk maybe). The world itself is much more important than the individual characters. No one plays WoW expecting some Marvel like super hero mashup though I guess that's what their marketing team is going for these days.
    When they announce a main hero or big bad is someone we knew from W3 lore the Blizzcon audiance goes nuts, and the fan base is much more excited in the forums. For example, Illidan to Arthas to Deathwing....Illidan again.

    Introduce the big bad or main hero as a new guy and the reaction is more of a murmur. Players seems to be far more excited about the expansion when it's about a character they are already invested in.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  13. #53
    I mean it’s a video game... it should never have any emotional hold anyways.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Jackson View Post
    Medivh died? Nah it's cool, he's back. Like 3 times.
    Arthas died? Nah it's cool, he'll probably be back in the Shadowlands.
    Uther died? Nah fuck it, he's almost become a side protagonist at this point with the number of appearances he's made in ghost form.
    Ysera dead? Nah she's probably alive somewhere in the dream, waiting to be revived.

    Oh and by the way, in the next expansion you can basically go talk to all of them in heaven and earth.
    They're all there, just on the other side of some veil that you can easily shatter by breaking some item crafted in some Shadowlands forge.

    Varian was an impactful death on me, especially the way he went out like a total fucking badass, but he's already been shown in ghost form towards the end of Legion and let me guess, Anduin will have a soulfull reunion with him in Shadowlands after the mages just open a portal from there to Azeroth.

    "Can you open a portal so I can go talk to every one of my favorite characters that died plz? I'll gief you 10g thx"

    Nothing in the plot matters anymore. I’m a bear wandering around carrying a pole arm and armor somehow while I’m repairing machinery and negotiating with union reps so we can explore mechagon. Last expansion I was on a spaceship and the one before that I went to an alternate timeline. Next expansion I’m going to the death realm.

    While thing jumped the shark years and years ago. It’s irreparable. Just play if it’s fun and that’s it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  15. #55
    I was starting to wonder if they weren't stealing story ideas from WestWorld. Sylvanis is Deloris? Lots of parallels, even though I am sure they aren't intentional.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwijello View Post
    I was starting to wonder if they weren't stealing story ideas from WestWorld. Sylvanis is Deloris? Lots of parallels, even though I am sure they aren't intentional.
    That's always the question. The fine line between homage and ripoff. From the beginning you can easily make the argument that Warcraft was a ripoff of Tolkien and Lovecraft. To your question, it would not surprise me at all if they are being influenced by other stories, like WestWorld.

    "Take the time to sit down and talk with your adversaries. You will learn something, and they will learn something from you. When two enemies are talking, they are not fighting. It's when the talking ceases that the ground becomes fertile for violence. So keep the conversation going."
    ~ Daryl Davis

  17. #57
    I'm torn because seeing some familiar faces in Shadowlands is part of what's necessary to make the story impactful and not a WOD: so diverged from the core Azeroth story that I don't care about a damn person in it.

    I think the main thing is people should not just come home with us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  18. #58
    Dreadlord Sharby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    New York City
    Posts
    951
    Quote Originally Posted by Powerogue View Post
    I'm torn because seeing some familiar faces in Shadowlands is part of what's necessary to make the story impactful and not a WOD: so diverged from the core Azeroth story that I don't care about a damn person in it.

    I think the main thing is people should not just come home with us.
    The problem is the damage will already have been done plot-wise.



    I'm no writer but I feel that a sudden-death is made impactful by the fact that there's no closure. If we are able to get closure with those who died suddenly for whatever reason then it completely nullifies that aspect. Especially since we are most likely going to be spending years with them, even if they don't come back.
    Honorary member of the Baine Fanclub, the only member really.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Sharby View Post
    The problem is the damage will already have been done plot-wise.

    I'm no writer but I feel that a sudden-death is made impactful by the fact that there's no closure. If we are able to get closure with those who died suddenly for whatever reason then it completely nullifies that aspect. Especially since we are most likely going to be spending years with them, even if they don't come back.
    Well then how should they do it? I can only assume the Maw will be our source of impactful perma-soul-death even in the Shadowlands, with at least one major character being fed to it. Or maybe we just go by elemental plane/Argus rules, that it's their "home turf" if anyone dies in the SL their soul is destroyed.(except us obviously, we're special)
    Quote Originally Posted by Daevelian View Post
    So this is how far the Lore forum has fallen? Eesh.
    I take it back, BfA is not the lowest the games lore could have gone, this thread proves that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aucald View Post
    And just like the thread before it, let's back away from sexualizing Azshara and return to the original topic at hand.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by McNeil View Post
    Doesn’t anyone stay dead anymore? - Arthas from WC3

    ..... it has never been more true
    Make a list of the mortal(i.e. no demons and such) lore characters that were definitely dead and returned to life. I think you will find it is much shorter than you imagine.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •