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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsOurEric View Post
    Long story short, no they aren't, and a lot of OP's points are full of it. Move along folks, nothing to see here.
    I love it so much when the LK's fans argue

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2020-03-29 at 04:45 PM. Reason: Received Infraction

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post

    Ahhhh, again a man who constantly demonstrates his ignorance in the lore and constantly loses to me all disputes and therefore hates me. I'm tired of repeating to you. Read. Chronicles It says in plain text that the Lich King knew that he could not capture Azeroth by force and that the Alliance and the Horde together could defeat the Scourge. So, please, stop using this stupid argument that Arthas could easily capture Azeroth if he wanted to. He could not. And he knew that.
    I have not been here for several months and you still have not read the Chronicles. Is this some kind of boycott against Blizzard or are you just too lazy to learn something newer than Wotlk?
    I know youve already been banned (again lawl), but i also know u keep reading this (and that you are shaking with anger while doing so), so here:
    Ive read Chronicles, all 3 in fact, and guess what. They also say that Bolvar was needed to stop the scourge from running rampage and killing untold numbers of people, so damn, i guess u havent read it? Ur entire point of chronicles establishing that the scourge couldnt do it is countered by chronicles itself. Aint that funny.
    Nobody takes you and your self-righteous rants about your oh-so-good lore-knowledge serious anymore darkoms, especially since its obvious youre just ignoring certain facts to make ur headcanon sound like factual canon. But do continue with these threads tho, its the funniest thing on mmo.
    And i dont even have to troll you anymore, bc you just keep trolling yourself.

    Ps: you havent won a single argument here, you always just say "stfu youre a fanboy" when somebody brings up valid arguments. And thats why you hate me, and 3/4 of all users here. Jesus, its hilarious.

    Infracted.
    Last edited by Aucald; 2020-03-30 at 12:04 PM. Reason: Received Infraction
    The crooked shitposter with no eyes is watching from the endless thread.

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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by DemonHunter18 View Post
    I always took the Scourge is more dangerous and unstoppable without the LK as a good joke.
    It's not a joke. Without a centralized control point, the scourge would just mindlessly cause havoc and more importantly they'd be susceptible to whatever necromancer is able to exert control over them. We saw this a bit in Cataclysm, with Darkmaster Gandling starting his own mini army in the plaguelands.

    "An even greater threat" is kind of bad wording, but essentially what was meant was that the scourge would become a potentially worse enemy if they were mindlessly roaming the world and attacking at will. At least with a Lich King the scourge was a more conventional enemy with a clear goal and could be strategized against.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    I love it so much when the LK's fans argue
    I love it so much that you basically got called out, embarrassed multiple times, and
    now that you're banned, you have nothing to say.

    Infracted.

    I've seen others respond in similar ways with no infractions, so you can absolutely
    fuck right off with this.
    Last edited by ThatsOurEric; 2020-03-30 at 07:07 PM. Reason: Received Infraction

  5. #45
    The OP seems way too personally invested in this and their attempts to prove other people's opinions wrong are entertaining if nothing else.

    The Scourge has definitely been made into just one of many world-ending threat over time, but I don't think it's their power level that makes them popular to this day. They had a killer aesthetic, a good story backing them up dating to WC3, were pivotal to the story of many popular characters, had a ton of influence on world events despite their relatively short lifespan, and of course were led by one of, if not the, most popular villain the setting has ever seen. To me and I believe to many others, that matters far more than whenever they can beat X or Y in a fight or not.

    The one thing about the Scourge that I did find absolutely stupid is the idea that they're somehow more dangerous without the demi-godlike intelligence guiding them. That was always a dumb plot point invented on the spot to justify keeping the Scourge and some version of the Lich King around.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    Arthas is literally the only villain that needed a literal divine intervention to help defeat him
    I guess we can say that if we forget about Argus

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Airlick View Post
    The Scourge was not overrated, Arthas was just busy twirling his proverbial moustache for the whole xpac.
    yup, as we played henchman to one of his weakest lackeys to boot...

  8. #48
    Dreadlord Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqthefat View Post
    I guess we can say that if we forget about Argus
    Oh yeah, that. Maybe I should've said "mortal" villain
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  9. #49
    Just out of curiosity. Did the scourge ever defeat any higher difficult enemies?

    I cant think of any wild god / dragon or similiar. Only mortals. Sindragosa wasnt even killed by the lichking. It was deathwing 10k years before.

    So i would say , was the lich king overrated as a thread towards the mortals? No of course not

    was the scourge a thread for azeroth? Not at all. Azeroth and the higher beings on it could have ended the scourge any time they wanted

  10. #50
    Sometimes the threat isnt just one person conquering everything. The scourge were relentless and would eventually overrun any position. It would be a slow bleed.

    You can debate all you want about who was the biggest threat but story wise there is nothing to make a player thing that arthas and the scourge werent a threat to azeroth.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by ArenaDk View Post
    Just out of curiosity. Did the scourge ever defeat any higher difficult enemies?

    I cant think of any wild god / dragon or similiar. Only mortals. Sindragosa wasnt even killed by the lichking. It was deathwing 10k years before.

    So i would say , was the lich king overrated as a thread towards the mortals? No of course not

    was the scourge a thread for azeroth? Not at all. Azeroth and the higher beings on it could have ended the scourge any time they wanted
    The Lich King at the time of his defeat? Probably not a threat to the titans, old gods, and other higher entities.

    The Lich King if he won, conquered all of Azeroth, and consumed a fuckton of souls with Frostmourne? The higher entities would probably be concerned a little bit, to say the least. An entire planet consumed by Death is not something to be ignored. The cosmic balance should always be preserved. That's why it's a big deal that Yrel and the naaru conquered AU Draenor for example.

    The Lich King was not the strongest villain, so much so that 1v1 Lei Shen would kill him. However his potential was noteworthy.
    Last edited by Varodoc; 2020-03-30 at 03:43 PM.
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  12. #52
    Mechagnome Kemsa's Avatar
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    i am so glad we are getting out of the "its a Legion expansion, its an old gold expansion... (hey its a Faction War expansion... but wait..ITS AN OLD GOD/LEGION EXPANSION TOO HAAHA)

    WoTLK looked more of an Old God expansion, with the Nexus War, then the aspects, then Ulduar and finally we got the Undead scourge expansion, just to be fucking wiped out faster than a d**rrea. Am saying it again, the Scourge deserved more. Sylvannas deserved a true fight against Arthas and the champions of the Horde + Tyrion, or Jaina + the alliance champions + Tyrion. But no it was just, Super Saiyan The Light Comic book Sword Hero Tyrion vs Arthas, and the idiots that wiped at 30%, or it was 40%? meh.

    Yeah when you are like 16 years old and you fought the lich king first hand with your 10 man guild, it was epic and everything, nowadays you do it for that invincible drop... and you see the worst execution of an expansion in its full might.

    Oh boy i cant wait for the new leveling system, so people do WoTLK at its full, just to see all the flaws of that time.
    At least on the Howling Fjord you fight the scourge first hand as Horde right??? oh yeah..... we fight the alliance first.... I forgot about that and what about Borean? yeah you destroy Kelthuzad army with a fricking Demolisher..... wow.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Again. Light is power, even if someone considers him a god. Light has no mind and no will. The Blood Knights pumped out the Light from Naaru, and Benedict, the SERVANT OF OLD GODS AND VOID, could use the Light with the help of willpower, but you say that the fact is that the Light is a bad god? Tell me, why would God, good or bad, allow his sworn enemy to use his power? Your argument does not hold water.

    Loa is the demigods and what does it have to do with it? You Arthas fans are trying to make Arthas so great and dangerous that the Light, the god of all Warcraft, decided to intervene personally and save Tyrion, only to stop Arthas. This is nonsense. In the Chronicles it is even written that Tyrion broke his fetters. It was not the Light that intervened and set him free, but Tyrion broke his fetters. Do you know why? Because Tyrion is a paladin and he can use the Light. Light is simply energy, even if Tyrion believes that it is some kind of higher being. Otherwise, any action of Malfurion is a divine intervention of Life, and any action of Khadgar is a divine intervention of Arcana.
    even if you are banned
    there is a difference between nature arcane and light
    not considering knaak bullshit what malfurion do is something like shamanism, he commute with the living being and use them, he is so strong because he can commute with a shittons of living beings (basically think like a walking genkidama)
    kadghar use raw mana to conjure his things, he consume "fuel".
    a fucking paladin is a living conduit of the light. the willpower is the key to emanate all that light magic. they basically think "im strong im strong im strong" and then the light randomly slash in a basically perpetual deus ex machina. all the entire archetype is based in being a walking deus ex machinas.
    the fact that the light isnt a copy carbon of the abrahamic god doesnt make it not a god. the clash of light and shadow create all the warcraft universes, they still do miracles all days. thats textbook definitio of divinity

  14. #54
    Salty Feline Overlord Beerbill Society's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    Here it is, the generation that grew up on zombie movies.
    I assure you, the army of demons or Lovecraftian monsters are much worse than the zombies.
    Just pointing out exactly what i saw in the in-game event, yea army of demons yada yada got their asses kicked like what 5 times already in Azeroth? their legacy is what Felwood? meh

    Scourge, blighted the shit out of Lordaeron turning most of it into the Plaguelands, wrecked the elf lands scaring it to this day and destroyed the most powerful city ever, Dalaran.

    But yeah lets just pretend it didnt happen.


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  15. #55
    The Lich King almost died at the Wrathgate? Lmao

    Why are you pushing false info you made up? The alliance and horde nearly got steamrolled by handfuls of walking corpses until Sylvanas stepped in and murdered everybody.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerbill Society View Post
    Just pointing out exactly what i saw in the in-game event, yea army of demons yada yada got their asses kicked like what 5 times already in Azeroth? their legacy is what Felwood? meh

    Scourge, blighted the shit out of Lordaeron turning most of it into the Plaguelands, wrecked the elf lands scaring it to this day and destroyed the most powerful city ever, Dalaran.

    But yeah lets just pretend it didnt happen.
    The legacy of the legion is countless worlds burned into ash, a wound that has put the world on life support, another wound that shattered the landmass and along with it destroyed a city far more powerful in magic than Dalaran, not to mention the elves had to sacrifice their immortality to stop Archimonde. That hardly scratches the surface of the legions impact and legacy.

  17. #57
    Weirdly, I think that the OP is right, just not for the reasons he's saying.

    The true might and danger of the Scourge is best looked at as:

    - A massive, massive army
    - Do not need to eat or sleep
    - Can continue to fight when horribly wounded
    - No need for supplies or supply lines
    - Can increase their numbers by killing their enemy

    These are absolutely massive advantages against traditional armies. The problem is that the overwhelming bulk of the Scourge is in Northrend, with no real way of attacking the rest of Azeroth easily, or at least without creating situations where their advantages matter. The threat is minimized simply because of geography. Now, if the Lich King could just poof and teleport the entirety of the Scourge to say, Stormwind, then they would easily be the largest threat faced to that point. But given the restrictions the Scourge faced, coupled with the armies of the Horde and the Alliance taking the fight to the Scourge in a relatively coordinated way that forced them to fight on two fronts, they lost a lot of ground.

  18. #58
    Salty Feline Overlord Beerbill Society's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaqthefat View Post
    The legacy of the legion is countless worlds burned into ash, a wound that has put the world on life support, another wound that shattered the landmass and along with it destroyed a city far more powerful in magic than Dalaran, not to mention the elves had to sacrifice their immortality to stop Archimonde. That hardly scratches the surface of the legions impact and legacy.
    And yet we don't see any of that...

    People that grew watching the exorcist overrate demons


    "... And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers, and you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee." - Ezekiel 25:17


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  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Beerbill Society View Post
    And yet we don't see any of that...

    People that grew watching the exorcist overrate demons
    What are you talking about. You can see what happened to Silithus, an entire zone decimated beyond repair and the entire expansion we've been working on stopping that wound from killing Azeroth. We can see that the landmasses are seperated due to the explosion of the well of eternity, we can see the ruins of Zin-Azshari a city with far more power than Dalaran could ever hope to reach. We can see how Argus, an entire world, as been corrupted and destroyed. The plaguelands are in the process of being purified and Dalaran has been rebuilt. Not only is there less of an impact from the scourge, but its being reversed. Kalimdor hasnt been pieced together, Argus is still destroyed, the Night elves are still mortal, Azeroth is still dying, and Zin'azharai is still long gone.
    Last edited by Shaqthefat; 2020-03-31 at 09:31 PM.

  20. #60
    Bloodsail Admiral Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkoms View Post
    People really overestimate the Scourge and its threat to Azeroth very, very much. Arthas just attacked at the right moment.
    Can you clarify? The Scourge never really tried attacking the Alliance and Horde at all. It's made very clear that their assaults were simply to goad the factions into sending their champions to Northrend.

    No one from the powerful of the world considered the Lich King such an important threat to be distracted from other matters. In fact, the red, green, and bronze teamed up to stop the blue dragons, and not undead (although there are a couple of dragon quests in the game just to oppose the Scourge), and the wild gods did not have to be resurrected urgently to stop the terrible Lich King, as in Cataclysm, because the Nightmare was much more dangerous than the Scourge.
    The Scourge were not actively attacking wyrmrest, while the Blue Dragonflight was. Why would you expect to see a concerted effort by every flight when there was a currently evolving war with the Blue Dragons happening at Wyrmrest? That said, the dragons did face major opposition from the Scourge. The red dragonflight was unable to expel the Scourge and required the Alliance and Horde's joint intervention. This is combined with their needing the Alliance and Horde to also stop the plot to raise Galakrond.

    In fact, even when the Lich King resurrected Galakrond, Alexstrasza was worried about mortals and said that if Galakrond was resurrected, mortals would have problems. She felt no threat to herself personally and decided to continue to fight Malygos.
    This is horribly disingenuous. She makes the assertion that "... all of your actions will have been for naught...," to appeal to the Alliance and Horde's own concerns, as we've gone there with the explicit purpose of ensuring we don't offend the dragons of Wyrmrest and make unnecessary enemies. In truth, Galakrond being resurrected would be something that the dragons of Wyrmrest would be unable to deal with, given that Galakrond took the combined might of all of the (proto) aspects and the Watcher Tyr. In this circumstance, it would be Alexstraza alone against Galakrond.

    Then he was nearly killed at the Wrathgate, but the Legion (well, the servants of the Legion) saved him and Alliance and Horde had to be distracted by stopping Varimathras, whose activities Sargeras personally monitored (maybe he wanted to make a new invasion of Azeroth?) and then the Alliance and the Horde went to fight with Yogg-Saron.
    Sure, by a plague specifically made over the course of decades to kill the undead. You're acting as though we were able to do anything to him, when it was decades of work by the Forsaken, aimed at specifically killing Arthas, backed by the Legion that weakened him. He wasn't nearly killed, he retreated once there was nothing to gain; everyone who he was there to kill was dead, the remaining plague would have killed anyone he tried to raise there.

    Even with all these parallel wars, the Alliance and the Horde defeated the Scourge (even if the Lich King allowed it, but if he could destroy the weakened Alliance and the Horde, he would have done it. Conclusion? Even after all these wars, the Scourge could not to defeat the Alliance and the Horde).
    If you think he would have done it, then you didn't follow the story of Wrath. Arthas was a broken man, he wasn't concerned about winning by direct confrontation. He wanted to use the heroes of Azeroth to assassinate their leaders; he wanted the heroes of Azeroth to be just like him.

    The words of Terenas is also only his personal opinion, he has no idea about Deathwing, the Old Gods, Aspects, Wild Gods, Keepers. Yes, even in the Chronicles it is written that Terenas said that the Scourge would cause irreparable damage to Azeroth (not destroy it).
    Sure, the Lich King isn't Kil'jaeden. They can't destroy the planet, but they can scourge all life from it and make it so that nothing living could exist on Azeroth again, which is why they're called the Scourge.

    Well, I would like to remind you that in the pre-patch of the Shadowlands, the Scourge will remain without control and will attack the Alliance and the Horde. But we all know that the Scourge will not be able to destroy them, simply because it is an MMO genre and the Alliance and Horde must always exist. That is, even weakened by constant wars with the Legion, the Old Gods and with each other, the Alliance and the Horde will reject the Scourge.
    We won't defeat the Scourge. It was explicitly stated at Blizzcon during the announcement that we'd be working on Bolvar to re-contain them.
    You see it as the Scourge not being able to instantly kill everyone, immediately after they're released; however, I see it as after decades of culling the undead from Kalimador, the Eastern Kingdoms, and Northrend, the Cult of the Damned and its forces fragmenting off of the Scourge into its own, independent group, we're still unable to defeat the Scourge.

    What do you think?
    I think you have not considered the events of Wrath deeply enough.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Beerbill Society View Post
    And yet we don't see any of that...

    People that grew watching the exorcist overrate demons
    In the short story Velen: Prophet's Lesson, we are given explicit reference to the Legion's ability to wipe life off the face of planets in a vision shown to Anduin.

    The Legion is, in all honesty, the strongest faction we've faced. They're a significantly larger threat than the Old Gods ever had been. There are inconsistencies, such as why we were able to deal with Argus so easily, which is contrasted with their capabilities in other mediums, but this is likely a "because we're the players" and we can't have Azeroth actually be destroyed, or invaded by a countless army of demons.
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