Everything past Vanilla wow is bad.

[Drusin]

As a classic and retail player I'd rather have "bad" retail than vanilla.

[Nightstalker]

When a post mentions that X is 100% right you know what you're getting into.

[Orange Joe]

Everything past Vanilla is bad.

Watch this video (He is 100% right)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MNF...v=9MNFWhCw8dg)

Focus on raiding actually became a curse as he said. When they catered to that small demographic and the even smaller demographic of autistic people who think MMO PVP should be a esport (and I was one of those idiots at one point), the game got ruined. I'm not saying it's all Blizzard's fault either. Loudmouths on forums are just as responsible asking for idiocy like arena. A lot of the mistakes was catering to what they thought was the majority.

TBC had too much difference in gear level, too many raids and too big a gear carousel, that isn't even worth it for pvp players because resilience was stupid. At everything else? It's a really bad MMO. World PvP doesn't exist. Community was awful outside your guild and non existent and cross realm BG's also added to this. TBC had the precursor to LFD, it's just most people didn't use it because the heroics were so darn hard at first. No Wintergrasp to try to make up for lack of wpvp. It was flawed, but at least something similar. Not alt friendly at all. Small world that sucks compared to old Azeroth and made smaller due to flying. Dailies that are done by zombies that suck to try to make up for the fact they killed organic content that happened on the way to dungeons without flight or farming in the world. Again I'm not saying WOTLK is a great MMO, it just does all these dumb minigames better than TBC.

Vanilla WoW was more than just a PVE raiding game, its about WORLD and organic content. TBC isn't. It's small, limited and shallow.

Then you have nothing to worry about if they release TBC,

[Thelyron]

Wrath, MoP, and Legion were good. The rest was garbage, including vanilla.

[Egomaniac]

I mean... you can meme all you want about "Lol Kungen" or whatever else you're throwing out without actually taking into consideration the points that are being made.

A lot of the arguments I'm seeing against this post is that TBC and WotLK introduced a lot of good things on TOP OF the negative things, and that these positives heavily outweighed the negatives. That's kinda the main point of Classic + though. Why not push for a version of the game where you get the good class balance but you also keep the WORLD as a main staying point. You can go to Outland and enjoy all of that content but it doesn't make Classic content irrelevant. Or at least not AS irrelevant.

Here's why Classic+ won't work the way you think

1) Everyone has their own ideas about what would make classic + great. Many of those ideas conflict with each other.
2) If you don't trust Blizzard to make good content for "retail"...why would you trust them to make a "better" classic?

[TJ]

Yeah... that's just complete bs. I'm loving Classic atm and having tonnes of fun, but TBC and Wrath were massive improvements to the game and overall, much more complete. Cata and MoP also improved *some* things, but not on the same level as the others, imo. Anyone saying Vanilla is the best in terms of actual gameplay and balance is delusional.

[CarlingBlackLabel]

Everything past Vanilla is bad.

Watch this video (He is 100% right)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MNF...v=9MNFWhCw8dg)

Focus on raiding actually became a curse as he said. When they catered to that small demographic and the even smaller demographic of autistic people who think MMO PVP should be a esport (and I was one of those idiots at one point), the game got ruined. I'm not saying it's all Blizzard's fault either. Loudmouths on forums are just as responsible asking for idiocy like arena. A lot of the mistakes was catering to what they thought was the majority.

TBC had too much difference in gear level, too many raids and too big a gear carousel, that isn't even worth it for pvp players because resilience was stupid. At everything else? It's a really bad MMO. World PvP doesn't exist. Community was awful outside your guild and non existent and cross realm BG's also added to this. TBC had the precursor to LFD, it's just most people didn't use it because the heroics were so darn hard at first. No Wintergrasp to try to make up for lack of wpvp. It was flawed, but at least something similar. Not alt friendly at all. Small world that sucks compared to old Azeroth and made smaller due to flying. Dailies that are done by zombies that suck to try to make up for the fact they killed organic content that happened on the way to dungeons without flight or farming in the world. Again I'm not saying WOTLK is a great MMO, it just does all these dumb minigames better than TBC.

Vanilla WoW was more than just a PVE raiding game, its about WORLD and organic content. TBC isn't. It's small, limited and shallow.

In your and his opinion. Not mine.

[Kralljin]

But thank you for assuming.

There was no assumption here, it was a statement.
You can argue over this all you want, but point is that majority of content did lie within the leveling experience of Vanilla, whereas nowadays it lies within the endgame content.

So yeah, "raid or die" - after you spent a huge amount of time on leveling itself.
It was the casual MMO at the time, because it placed a huge focus on leveling, rather than treating the leveling as "flyover" content, so everyone could level at their own pace.

[Kokolums]

One of the absolutely WORST things post-vanilla is Arenas. Arenas have absolutely NO PLACE an in MMO. They jammed it in there for esports purposes. An MMO is for large scale events, not a tiny sandbox for 3v3s. Its embarrassing Arenas even exist in this game.

[FelPlague]

Everything past Vanilla is bad.

Watch this video (He is 100% right)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MNF...v=9MNFWhCw8dg)

Focus on raiding actually became a curse as he said. When they catered to that small demographic and the even smaller demographic of autistic people who think MMO PVP should be a esport (and I was one of those idiots at one point), the game got ruined. I'm not saying it's all Blizzard's fault either. Loudmouths on forums are just as responsible asking for idiocy like arena. A lot of the mistakes was catering to what they thought was the majority.

TBC had too much difference in gear level, too many raids and too big a gear carousel, that isn't even worth it for pvp players because resilience was stupid. At everything else? It's a really bad MMO. World PvP doesn't exist. Community was awful outside your guild and non existent and cross realm BG's also added to this. TBC had the precursor to LFD, it's just most people didn't use it because the heroics were so darn hard at first. No Wintergrasp to try to make up for lack of wpvp. It was flawed, but at least something similar. Not alt friendly at all. Small world that sucks compared to old Azeroth and made smaller due to flying. Dailies that are done by zombies that suck to try to make up for the fact they killed organic content that happened on the way to dungeons without flight or farming in the world. Again I'm not saying WOTLK is a great MMO, it just does all these dumb minigames better than TBC.

Vanilla WoW was more than just a PVE raiding game, its about WORLD and organic content. TBC isn't. It's small, limited and shallow.

nah, vanilla is bad and you should feel bad.
i want tbc out asap, so that wotlk can come out sooner
wotlk come to me pappi
come to me pappi wotlk, come to me!

[Nnyco]

Oh my, a throwaway account linking a four year old kungen video yelling how much everythin sucks but classic. Never seen this before.

[Schmilblick]

Wow, 2 pages for this ? lol.

[Jurwi]

Everything past Vanilla is bad.

Watch this video (He is 100% right)

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MNF...v=9MNFWhCw8dg)

Focus on raiding actually became a curse as he said. When they catered to that small demographic and the even smaller demographic of autistic people who think MMO PVP should be a esport (and I was one of those idiots at one point), the game got ruined. I'm not saying it's all Blizzard's fault either. Loudmouths on forums are just as responsible asking for idiocy like arena. A lot of the mistakes was catering to what they thought was the majority.

TBC had too much difference in gear level, too many raids and too big a gear carousel, that isn't even worth it for pvp players because resilience was stupid. At everything else? It's a really bad MMO. World PvP doesn't exist. Community was awful outside your guild and non existent and cross realm BG's also added to this. TBC had the precursor to LFD, it's just most people didn't use it because the heroics were so darn hard at first. No Wintergrasp to try to make up for lack of wpvp. It was flawed, but at least something similar. Not alt friendly at all. Small world that sucks compared to old Azeroth and made smaller due to flying. Dailies that are done by zombies that suck to try to make up for the fact they killed organic content that happened on the way to dungeons without flight or farming in the world. Again I'm not saying WOTLK is a great MMO, it just does all these dumb minigames better than TBC.

Vanilla WoW was more than just a PVE raiding game, its about WORLD and organic content. TBC isn't. It's small, limited and shallow.

World is the only thing Vanilla has over TBC. TBC has better raids, better PvP (Arenas), better dungeons. Oh, and actual class balance.

[Pharim]

The heck does "organic content" even mean?

Nothing. It is what we in critical journalism call bullshit lingo or "coorporate sales speech" where you apply vague but grand adjectives to describe what you're doing, your opinion, your ideas or your product. For example - a CEO, politician or community manager might describe their workplace or community as "very organic". But unless you make them come up with an example as to what exactly they mean by organic (ie. a lot of our community members create their own events, engage in content creation etc. etc.), it means nothing and I wouldn't cite it. Ever.

A lot of YouTubers, fans and content creators sprinkle grand adjectives onto their praise or criticism because it might fool people into thinking they have this grand plan, vision or actual idea what they're talking about. Sometimes they do - and in those cases they can very quickly either show you or give you an example as to what they mean (and you would be surprised how many on YouTube - a video medium - who fucking can't). If they just fling it out - it is usually bullshit used to make them sound smarter than they really are.

[Nerovar]

In some ways, yes. In other ways, not so much. TBC spawned arenas which are arguably one of the most fun game modes in the history of online gaming.

[Big Thanks]

PvP is pretty good in some expansions...unlike Classic which is the worst thing ever created by mankind. (for random BG spam)

[Dracullus]

Vanilla servers will be scary place once even Classic community will move on to TBC.

[Kumorii]

retail > vanilla... oof, easy counter.

[Liftinmammals]

There is nothing new under the sun.

[Drusin]

Wow, 2 pages for this ? lol.

Thought I'd bring you with me to page 3