1. #1
    High Overlord Timewalker's Avatar
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    How viable is Survival?

    Survival has interested me since the remake and I see a few around Boralus, but are they any good?

    How do they preform in M+ and BGs? How hard is the entry level to become a half decent Survival Hunter?

  2. #2
    There are MANY many specs that are a hell of a lot worse then SV in every aspect of the game. IF you are just starting out which kinda sounds like you are then you might wana look up the essences guide on icy-veins.com for sv and get to clicking and see what its going to entail to get your best ones. Cause thats really whats carrying people the stupid neck item and its slots.

    https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/surviv...e-dps-essences

    Best of luck to you and bless your heart if this is your first pass this xpac. SV is one of the few fun melee specs.
    "I'm Tru @ w/e I do" ~ TM

  3. #3
    Survival is very much viable for most PvE content and it's probably one of the stronger PvP specs at the moment.
    However, for anything other than Arena it's not really the most valuable spec around. For most PvE content BM is simply better in most aspects.

    If you split it up:

    - General PvE: Survival is more than OK here, it's quite efficient at questing and basic PvE content. Also pretty decent for things like Visions.

    - Raids: Not really a meta spec; but that's mostly because the melee group is quite saturated and then specs like DH / Rogues / Warriors tend to get picked over survival. There are a few survival players that do quite well though. Will you be declined? Unlikely; but I wouldn't be surprised if you're asked to go BM at some point.

    - M+: Survival isn't great here. Their ST damage is quite decent, but their sustained AoE is lacking a bit. For lower keys Survival is quite ok, as their burst AoE is decent enough to get along. But if keys get higher and especially on certain fortified weeks, you'll fall behind quite fast.
    It also doesn't help that survival is one of those specs that has a different build / azerite gear for different situations, whereas some other specs only need a slight adjustment.
    It will do fine for most M+ stuff, especially anything up to and including 15's if you're good with the spec, but it's not cutting edge and you can do better more easily with a DH/Rogue/BM/etc instead of Survival.

    - Arena: Survival is one of the stronger specs in arena. It works quite well in a couple of comps; most famously is jungle cleave (SV/Feral/Healer), but i've seen some wonky other comps work well with hunter. SV brings good spread pressure and ST burst, combined with decent mobility, decent hard CC in frost trap and decent self sustain.

    - BGs: If it's random BGs than SV is quite good as it's a very self reliant spec that can do good burst damage. For ranged BG it's probably not as good, because you're melee and I think there are better melee classes for rated BGs; but I'm not really an expert on this.

    ---

    How hard is it to become a half decent SV hunter?
    Frankly, if you put time in it nothing is really hard to learn in WoW.
    That said, I would probably rate it as the hardest of the three hunter specs, mostly because you need to get a good feeling for the timing and there are some spec variants that you all need to control to some extend.
    The spec also tends to have a lot more timers / cooldowns you need to watch compared to the other two hunter specs.

  4. #4
    High Overlord Timewalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nythiz View Post
    Survival is very much viable for most PvE content and it's probably one of the stronger PvP specs at the moment.
    However, for anything other than Arena it's not really the most valuable spec around. For most PvE content BM is simply better in most aspects.

    If you split it up:

    - General PvE: Survival is more than OK here, it's quite efficient at questing and basic PvE content. Also pretty decent for things like Visions.

    - Raids: Not really a meta spec; but that's mostly because the melee group is quite saturated and then specs like DH / Rogues / Warriors tend to get picked over survival. There are a few survival players that do quite well though. Will you be declined? Unlikely; but I wouldn't be surprised if you're asked to go BM at some point.

    - M+: Survival isn't great here. Their ST damage is quite decent, but their sustained AoE is lacking a bit. For lower keys Survival is quite ok, as their burst AoE is decent enough to get along. But if keys get higher and especially on certain fortified weeks, you'll fall behind quite fast.
    It also doesn't help that survival is one of those specs that has a different build / azerite gear for different situations, whereas some other specs only need a slight adjustment.
    It will do fine for most M+ stuff, especially anything up to and including 15's if you're good with the spec, but it's not cutting edge and you can do better more easily with a DH/Rogue/BM/etc instead of Survival.

    - Arena: Survival is one of the stronger specs in arena. It works quite well in a couple of comps; most famously is jungle cleave (SV/Feral/Healer), but i've seen some wonky other comps work well with hunter. SV brings good spread pressure and ST burst, combined with decent mobility, decent hard CC in frost trap and decent self sustain.

    - BGs: If it's random BGs than SV is quite good as it's a very self reliant spec that can do good burst damage. For ranged BG it's probably not as good, because you're melee and I think there are better melee classes for rated BGs; but I'm not really an expert on this.

    ---

    How hard is it to become a half decent SV hunter?
    Frankly, if you put time in it nothing is really hard to learn in WoW.
    That said, I would probably rate it as the hardest of the three hunter specs, mostly because you need to get a good feeling for the timing and there are some spec variants that you all need to control to some extend.
    The spec also tends to have a lot more timers / cooldowns you need to watch compared to the other two hunter specs.
    I am not someone who is looking to push keys beyond like +15, or do any Mythic raiding. I just wanna do a weekly rotation of HC raiding, M+ in and around +10-15 and some random BGs. Reckon Survival is gonna do me good then?

  5. #5
    If you can accept not getting invited for random keys sure... most people invite a hunter for their ranged speccs (easpecially bm) which are decent and not a melee hunter with nearly no real aoe damage.

  6. #6
    unless you have friends that will take you to keys and raids SV is not worth it in pve. it's mostly just good for pvp. bm is better in every way for dungeons and raid.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Timewalker View Post
    I am not someone who is looking to push keys beyond like +15, or do any Mythic raiding. I just wanna do a weekly rotation of HC raiding, M+ in and around +10-15 and some random BGs. Reckon Survival is gonna do me good then?
    Yep just fine. If you like the playstyle you'll grow into it quite easy.
    Will it be better than BM at the same skill level? Unlikely; but if you enjoy the playstyle it will work just fine, there are plenty of SV players.

  8. #8
    It's one great spec, too much underrated, funny gameplay.

  9. #9
    Icy Veins currently has this to say on Hunters in regards to Spec Viability:

    3.1.1. Beast Mastery
    Strongest single-target and AoE damage.
    Strongest pet utility and defensive capabilities.
    Dependence on pet AI can be annoying.
    Full mobility.
    3.1.2. Marksmanship
    High burst-damage.
    Very strongly tied to ability cooldowns which can make it inflexible in very short-term burst situations.
    Almost fully mobile.
    3.1.3. Survival
    Very strong single-target damage.
    Versatile builds that allow for very good cleave or very good single-target.
    Can only do one thing really well at the same time.
    3.2. What Is The Best Spec?
    3.2.1. Single-Target/Raiding
    All of the specs are close to equal in this respect.

    3.2.2. Cleave/AoE/Mythic+
    Beast Mastery;
    Marksmanship;
    Survival.
    3.2.3. Utility/Defensives
    Beast Mastery can provide Spirit Mend Icon Spirit Mend to you and your allies which is a powerful self-heal, and various utility through its pets.

    Marksmanship does not often use a pet, and it does not have Spirit Mend Icon Spirit Mend at all.

    Survival lies somewhere between Marksmanship and Beast Mastery. While it does not have Spirit Mend, it can use any pet type for any situation just like Beast Mastery (with the exception of Exotic Beasts, but these do not provide anything uniquely useful).

  10. #10
    If it wasn't for the lack of AOE damage, I'd still be playing it. SV can do some crazy AOE if the things you're AOEing live long enough to have your Wildfire Bomb get a few resets in, but BM just trounces it in every way right now. SV is a lot of fun to play (Birds of Prey build being the exception, unless spamming a single button sounds like fun!) and the ST damage is very good.

  11. #11
    Over 9000! Mirishka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timewalker View Post
    I am not someone who is looking to push keys beyond like +15, or do any Mythic raiding. I just wanna do a weekly rotation of HC raiding, M+ in and around +10-15 and some random BGs. Reckon Survival is gonna do me good then?
    You'd do just fine with Survival, yes.
    My greatest fear is that one day, my MMO-Champion ignore list will run out of space.

  12. #12
    Pit Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    I saw SV pulling high numbers in both raids and M+. Unfortunately, it's people perception that will keep you from getting some invites.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Timewalker View Post
    Survival has interested me since the remake and I see a few around Boralus, but are they any good?

    How do they preform in M+ and BGs? How hard is the entry level to become a half decent Survival Hunter?
    Nnoggah (Method raider) streamed a few high keys with survival a few weeks ago (he ended a +21 FH run at 83k dps overall for example). The twitch video link: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/5675866...ives&sort=time. He did a lot of different dungeons on survival on this session.

    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    I saw SV pulling high numbers in both raids and M+. Unfortunately, it's people perception that will keep you from getting some invites.
    It's not only about damage. Enhancement shaman and arms warrior have crazy damage too in M+ but at some point utility is more important (shroud, darkness, sap).
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2020-04-03 at 12:17 AM.

  14. #14
    Pit Lord Makabreska's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barzotti View Post
    It's not only about damage. Enhancement shaman and arms warrior have crazy damage too in M+ but at some point utility is more important (shroud, darkness, sap).
    Well, I'm currently switching to enh, and can say that they got tons of utility. But ye, hunts seem to have not much of it.
    Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there, wondering, fearing...

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Makabreska View Post
    Well, I'm currently switching to enh, and can say that they got tons of utility. But ye, hunts seem to have not much of it.
    BMs have binding shot, a soothe, a 5 seconds stun on a 1 minute cooldown, spirit mend, traps on top of their natural amenities (survivability and mobility). That's pretty good imho. If you were talking about survival hunter, they don't provide a lot of utility indeed.
    Last edited by Barzotti; 2020-04-03 at 10:48 AM.

  16. #16
    IMHO the overall rotation and gameplay of survival feels really unpolished, janky and gimmicky.... half-baked implementation.

    If someone wants to invite a hunter to a raid/pvp/dungeon it will probably be because they want a ranged DPS which survival ain't...

    But you can find a guild/friends who dont min-max and wont mind bringing a melee spec that is less awesome than DH/Rogue/Warr
    BfA = second worst product ever made by Blizzard.
    War3 Reforged took the title for worst product.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Timewalker View Post
    I am not someone who is looking to push keys beyond like +15, or do any Mythic raiding. I just wanna do a weekly rotation of HC raiding, M+ in and around +10-15 and some random BGs. Reckon Survival is gonna do me good then?
    Then you are more than fine to play any spec in the game.
    But stigma is still there and some ppl will decline/kick you for not being in expected spec (bm is just so much better in pve than survival).

  18. #18
    15, 16? year veteran

    I leveled a hunter a got it geared quickly with my guild (full heroic gear) and decided "hell let me try this survival"...

    God almighty:

    This spec is hard. very hard.
    It takes an exceptional player to make it work. No wonder only 1 survival hunter has killed NZoth mythic.
    The spec has a LOT of fun potential but the learning curve is very steep indeed.

    I am unfortunately thinking of leaving it behind for beast mastery, I am just not good enough even with many years of wow and high level raiding.

    kudos to those that manage to make it work. hats off to you guys.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Timewalker View Post
    I am not someone who is looking to push keys beyond like +15, or do any Mythic raiding. I just wanna do a weekly rotation of HC raiding, M+ in and around +10-15 and some random BGs. Reckon Survival is gonna do me good then?
    survival will do just fine. and the main difference to BM is that the spec is actually fun to play and you dont fall asleep while playing!

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