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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Power is not customization.
    Its customization...even though is passives, i take this over having nothing.
    Its either nothing or this we have now.

    Because Blizzard refuses to add things that change gameplay.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Azerite gear is adding an unnecessary RNG element to your performance without making the gameplay of the game more fun. Corruption gear which was added after Azerite gear is even worse. Therefore I'm concerned that Blizzard will continue this unfortunate trend into Shadowlands.

    If they have a system that adds a lot of negative effects to the game without making the game any more fun, then they should not add that system to the game. BFA would be more enjoyable to play if Azerite gear and corruption wasn't in it.

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    Well... of course it is Blizzards fault... The azerite system didn't create itself, so that fact is pretty obvious professor xD

    A customization system which doesn't change the gameplay of the classes is just not a good customization system. It doesn't work.

    If Blizzard could add something which actually change the way you play your class then it's all good. But Azerite gear doesn't do that.
    What is the RNG element you are talking about with Azerite, just so we are clear?
    It cannot be the normal acquisition, seeing as that falls under regular gearing. Which means that your entire RNG argument for Azerite hinges on you being salty that you cannot guarantee a literal BiS mythic gear item for your spec in a short time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Its customization...even though is passives, i take this over having nothing.
    Its either nothing or this we have now.

    Because Blizzard refuses to add things that change gameplay.
    We did have azerite powers that changed your entire rotation, the Meta build for MM in Uldir changed completely and was entirely dependent on the correct Azerite power. And i am pretty sure that there are still abilities that work the same now.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    We did have azerite powers that changed your entire rotation, the Meta build for MM in Uldir changed completely and was entirely dependent on the correct Azerite power. And i am pretty sure that there are still abilities that work the same now.
    What azerite was this? Unbound chaos? Got removed...
    Snake Eyes also got removed from rogue.

    I only know examples of "removals" in stuff that changed your gameplay.
    Last edited by Shadoowpunk; 2020-03-31 at 01:31 PM.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    What essence was this? Unbound chaos? Got removed...
    Snake Eyes also got removed from rogue.

    I only know examples of "removals" in stuff that changed your gameplay.
    I think the problem is more that Blizzard nerfed the abilities that massively changed your rotation sinced it usually ended up boiling down to "Build buff, use buff". The abilities are still there though, just not nearly as good anymore.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I
    Because it was broken.
    Ah. So Blizzard had this amazing ability to know that the entire player base would not like this system. Yet lack the insight to act on this and continue to invest resources and launch it anyway.

    One must wonder if they had the ability for the reverse, to know what the entire player base would like and apply the same resource to development such features.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    I don't raid and I have my bis traits on my 480 azerites. HoA has nothing to do with raiding. How is it harder to find out? Rings are the only pieces which are harder to find out.
    Azerite pieces? Discord/icy veins/hero dmg
    Trinkets? Discord/icy veins/hero dmg
    Talents? Discord/icy veins/hero dmg
    Corruption? Dicord/icy veins/ hero dmg
    I am referring to Ions statement that any item with a considerable higher item level should be considered an upgrade. That is not the case. And you actually need external websites and addons to figure out which is the better item.

    In earlier times you just looked at your stats saying: hmm I need SO much hit, expertise etc after that ima gonna stack crit or haste or what ever it was easy to juggle around with your gear. Like if you got a higher item level piece that would screw with your hit cap you then would replace another piece to be capped again, or reforge some other piece etc.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    The importance of getting a specific Azerite piece matters more. And getting a specific piece from the Titan Residuum vendor is heavily based on RNG (or a 10 week waiting period). It matters that you only do LFR because you don't care what Azerite pieces you have as it makes no difference to you. So the RNG element doesn't impact you negatively. But it does impact players who try to be competitive. And the competitiveness between players shouldn't be based on very heavy RNG. Corruption gear is even worse in that regard of course. But you don't do challenging content so you don't know the pain of having heavy RNG impact your competitiveness.
    That isn't how it works. It isn't wait 10 weeks and you get what you want automatically. People can also care about things beyond what they do. Do you think all developers in games are always super awesome at playing video games? Nope. You also don't do what the .1% World First raiders do so we you really don't know how it works by your own logic. So shouldn't we dismiss all you have to say?

    Competitiveness between players has always been based on RNG. Because it has always been based on gear and obtaining those gear drops. Very few actually complain about the RNG of Azerite traits. Corruption has some problems but Azerite has very few. You are over blowing something that you don't like and something that hasn't really been changed as a system since 8.2. Because the system shifted away from Azerite gear to essences.

    You don't do challenging content either. Because you are farming gear for 10 weeks to prop up you and your guild in order to clear content. I can arbitrarily apply rules for when people can comment or not. I also do some challenging content but we all play the game in the ways we most prefer. That doesn't mean that anything you say is automatically right just because you feel yourself as superior to other players.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    I am referring to Ions statement that any item with a considerable higher item level should be considered an upgrade. That is not the case. And you actually need external websites and addons to figure out which is the better item.

    In earlier times you just looked at your stats saying: hmm I need SO much hit, expertise etc after that ima gonna stack crit or haste or what ever it was easy to juggle around with your gear. Like if you got a higher item level piece that would screw with your hit cap you then would replace another piece to be capped again, or reforge some other piece etc.
    how would you know what stats do you need? Cuz I did not. First priest that I leveled I was shadow priest with healing items because "I liked to help out". After that you go to external sites and watch guides. It has always been the same. How would you know which trinket is bis? How much hit do you need with what talent set up? You either did math or relied on external sites.... LIKE NOW!

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    So three slots being permanently taken up that rarely (if ever) change your playstyle once you get your BiS traits is "far superior" to 4 of 6 slots that can be swapped around and have the potential to alter gameplay every tier?

    What?
    And this is what exactly is mind blogging. You completely don't know how it works. 4-6 sets wasn't "swappable" around. You just took pieces that had best stats for your class and never change it, that is first thing. Second, azerite gear is far more gameplay altering that tier sets ever were.

    Yes, it is far superior design. Not to mention they were only obtainable in raids, had no vendor.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron"
    imbecile and moron mean the same so he was clearly not as wise as you think

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    I wish TD did more for my aoe dps than void ritual.

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    And you cant remove you head, chest, or shoulders now. The only difference is you could use different combinations of tier pieces. You can take off your azerite helmet and put on your azerite pants.

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    Are we still pretending legiondaries were hard capped? Wow...
    Only reason I can think of it that it's not is that you're a caster staying way back so it's not actually hitting anything. I had to train myself on my boomie on that matter. Or are you running in a group with other people also running void ritual? Cause iirc it's like the azerite crystal essence where it becomes exponentially stronger when others use it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Which class/spec are you playing? Because for some specs (for example BM hunter) the stat corruptions are better per corruption than the proc corruptions (e.g. Twilight Dev).

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    That's not customization. That's just a power increase.
    Imma kitty. Stars is top for single target and Twilight Devastation is top for AoE when viewed in a vacuum. But some like the 'make you bleed over 10 sec' one are simming higher than both of those on both ST and AoE and there's other little ones where they'd add up to more than Stars and TD for the corruption they cost.

    To put it simply (just throwing out ass numbers to make a point here btw)
    Devastation is worth 10,000 dps and costs 75 corruption, that's 133.33 damage per corruption (dpc).
    Say the internal bleeding one is worth 3k dps but only costs 10 corruption, that would be 300 dpc.

    So you get a bunch of weaker on their own but substantially cheaper ones and they add up to more than the big dog daddy. =)
    "Remember, never look over the long term story and try to piece together what Blizzard planned, only take singular moments out of context and blow them way out of proportion. We can argue better that way. Every time I try to look at the story as Blizzard are presenting it I'm either called a shill or a fanfiction writer." Powerogue 2019

  12. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    how would you know what stats do you need? Cuz I did not. First priest that I leveled I was shadow priest with healing items because "I liked to help out". After that you go to external sites and watch guides. It has always been the same. How would you know which trinket is bis? How much hit do you need with what talent set up? You either did math or relied on external sites.... LIKE NOW!
    I agree, you looked up your stat prio ONCE or so in some guide on the internet. But you didn't need addons left and right to make gear choices. That's exactly what they critized before and a reason why they removed reforging. ... but hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Yes, it is far superior design. Not to mention they were only obtainable in raids, had no vendor.
    There were dungeon sets, though. I really liked that idea tbh. Not as powerful as raid sets but pretty neat.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggroll View Post
    I agree, you looked up your stat prio ONCE or so in some guide on the internet. But you didn't need addons left and right to make gear choices. That's exactly what they critized before and a reason why they removed reforging. ... but hey.

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    There were dungeon sets, though. I really liked that idea tbh. Not as powerful as raid sets but pretty neat.
    I don't really feel that's truth at all mate. I mean sure, we have tools to check is there is a 3% upgrade when we are using 365 meh wrists vs using 355 bis stats so we tend to do it, but on my alt mage (I main as tank so ilvl=king and corruption I choose on whos healing me and affixes) I just check the logs for what stats I am looking for for ST/M+ and what azerites I need - that is it. Running and simming every item is not something I want to do or something I need to do. I might sim myself if I change tons of gear, but "need to sim every item" comes out from being able to do so easy and not "if I don't sim this my char will suck ass". BiS corruptions you can easy look up on any class guide/class discord. You don't think that if people had tools available back in the day, they would not have done that? People used to have addons which would select spell ranks for them or make macros which would do full rotations for them. Players will use anything to get any advantage, no matter how small, but it is not mandatory. Simming is something what min maxers will do. Same people were reaching exact amount of hit rating to reach a cap or were reaching exact amount of haste to get that extra tick of SW:P while general public did not care if they had 2% extra of hit or they haste had started to get DRs a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mardux View Post
    So three slots being permanently taken up that rarely (if ever) change your playstyle once you get your BiS traits is "far superior" to 4 of 6 slots that can be swapped around and have the potential to alter gameplay every tier?

    What?
    you never swapped around your tier items because you would select best stats parts and that is it. Sometimes that would mean that you have to wear really shit stats to have that nice 4set and wouldn't be able to equip your bis stats item. It was always nice to feel how that mastery from my chest does so little :>
    Also it was only raid drops, which with new legion addition of m+ is bad, because if you only run m+ you are at disadvantage. Not to say that raiders shouldn't have that, but in that case M+ should have sets which are good in dungeons, pvp would have sets which are for pvp and raiders would have a tier set which works in raid. Azerite is universal and while it is far from perfect, it's certainly not as restricting. And it has effect on how you play your class. During BoD a frost mage had 3!!!! viable builds (no ice lance/frozen orb/regular). While other classes are not so lucky there are still alterations on what actions you do and how you do it.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksej89 View Post
    I literally remove corruption from every character i got.
    I aint doing progressive raiding nor top mythic+ so i dont need whatever damage bonuses corruption effects give.

    I was trying to find a way to enjoy the corruption mechanic for weeks but in the end just removing it was the best choice for my enjoyment of gameplay.
    No bullsh*t slow, no suicide illusions, no purple eye... awful unfun mechanics.
    You're telling me you find no joy in getting hit by 3 Things from Beyond within 2 seconds for 200k each isn't fun?!

  15. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    You're telling me you find no joy in getting hit by 3 Things from Beyond within 2 seconds for 200k each isn't fun?!
    It pales in comparison with being sat in mythic because you only managed to pull two corruption pieces ( a star 1,2) on a 445 450 ilv item respectfully.


    Having people do 15million more damage then I am from a proc is so,so fun. All I ever get to proc is get hit get vers. I'm up to 12 pieces now.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You never had to grind for Azerite gear. You could choose to do so but doing so didn't really gain you that much. The notion of grinding is attached to much to artifact power. More ranks didn't gain you much once you had all the rings unlocked. You can keep gaining neck ranks beyond 80 currently but no one "Grinds" for it. Except those that are doing it just to do.
    And yet I have been chasing new levels of my heart of azeroth with the sole purpose of unlocking new options.
    That is, after I finally have gotten a piece with high enough ilvl.

  17. #217
    The usual Blizzard way.
    Dev 1: People aren't using this feature we made, they don't like it.
    Dev 2: Well then MAKE them have to use it.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Blizzard need to much more critical when it comes to their own work. If something doesn't work, then just drop it. Don't spend months trying to save a lost cause only to end up with something which makes the game worse. With systems like the Azerite gear which from the beginning clearly didn't work they just need to make a clear cut and remove it from the game instead of using a lot of resources trying to fix something which is already lost. Azerite gear brought much more negatives to the game than positives and adding systems like that is only damaging. Especially when they use extra resources on them. Only a very small minority of players are going to look back at the Azerite gear with any positive feelings. The same thing can be said about the corruption gear. The situations where you feel bad because of the corruption just massively outweighs the times when you feel good. They shouldn't spend time and resources on these systems which just have a overall negative impact on the game. If something clearly doesn't work, they just need to put their proudness aside and cut it from the game. Simple as that.

    If your game has fun content people will play it. Don't add negatives to it.
    I don't think blizz can just remove features that are listed on the box/website as features. Aside from the PR nightmare it would be, it also sounds like something you could sue over.

    And then theres the practical effects: if they remove it, nothing can take it's place cause nothing exists to take it's place. at best it's a revamped system and you can put the old system back in. Just imagine if blizz decided to put visions on the chopping block, that's the core gameplay loop of this patch gone in a patch where people already complain of content draught from it's launch day.

    Nah they should just listen to feedback in alpha/beta before it's too late to make changes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tronski View Post
    And yet I have been chasing new levels of my heart of azeroth with the sole purpose of unlocking new options.
    That is, after I finally have gotten a piece with high enough ilvl.
    How? artifact knowledge is still going. right now 79-80 neck takes 10k AP. Any character you actually play should get 80 neck in 2 weeks orso, without trying.
    Last edited by Hellobolis; 2020-04-03 at 09:07 AM.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Jackson View Post
    I think Final Fantasy alone had 10 mil the last time it anounced #.

    At least they have endgame and PVP, all wow has are broken classes battlegrounds and raids raids raids
    Everyone switches to FF14... for a short time. Then all groups in FF14 die and all the people shitting on wow suddenly come back online ingame.

    It is the same since the start of FF14. They just can't keep wow players. Because (IMHO) while wow has its problem it is still the better game.
    I loved ESO. Played it so much. But it still did not captivate me enough to keep playing it so i went back to wow.

    No matter how much people like to make WoW out to be the worst game ever created right now i am quite sure it is still the most played of the bunch. But as all of us this is just an assumption as we don't have any numbers to go on.

    FF14 just feels incredibly empty. WoW does not.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Blizzard need to much more critical when it comes to their own work. If something doesn't work, then just drop it. Don't spend months trying to save a lost cause only to end up with something which makes the game worse. With systems like the Azerite gear which from the beginning clearly didn't work they just need to make a clear cut and remove it from the game instead of using a lot of resources trying to fix something which is already lost. Azerite gear brought much more negatives to the game than positives and adding systems like that is only damaging. Especially when they use extra resources on them. Only a very small minority of players are going to look back at the Azerite gear with any positive feelings. The same thing can be said about the corruption gear. The situations where you feel bad because of the corruption just massively outweighs the times when you feel good. They shouldn't spend time and resources on these systems which just have a overall negative impact on the game. If something clearly doesn't work, they just need to put their proudness aside and cut it from the game. Simple as that.

    If your game has fun content people will play it. Don't add negatives to it.
    So called "endless grind" systems increase MAUs and therefore they're successful game systems. Who cares about what players say, if they still endlessly grind this crap?

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