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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    You cannot ignore Azerite gear because it is a core part of your character progression.

    You can easily ignore Islands because there are many other sources of Azerite in the game.

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    Azerite gear was a huge investment from Blizzard. They have used a lot of resources to develop it. And what value has it added to the game?
    Value? Azerite gear massively upgraded tier sets.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    You cannot ignore Azerite gear because it is a core part of your character progression.

    You can easily ignore Islands because there are many other sources of Azerite in the game.

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    Azerite gear was a huge investment from Blizzard. They have used a lot of resources to develop it. And what value has it added to the game?
    They tried to give players their own customizable tier set. It hasn't turned out perfect, but it is an improvement over tier sets from every point of view (except for the looks, but that is another topic). There is no malicious intent behind their decision.

    I would rather they expand and improve on that concept, then going back to tier sets, which had many, many problems, many of them most people seem to leave out.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Azerite gear was a huge investment from Blizzard. They have used a lot of resources to develop it. And what value has it added to the game?
    Was it really? I guess it was mentioned as a feature going into BFA but it's been a minor part of every patch since then. Once they fixed the acquisition problem (which was the biggest annoyance by far imo) it's been pretty much fine and while it's not an amazing feature by any means, I think it's fine for what it is.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    You cannot ignore Azerite gear because it is a core part of your character progression. You can easily ignore Islands because there are many other sources of Azerite in the game.
    It is like any other gear though. You are drowned in it. You only have to unlock the rings once. Blizzard hasn't added any new rings for a while so any Azerite gear you get is already fully unlocked. Azerite is only important now to get to the third essence slot. Which is relatively easy even with new characters because of the catch up mechanics.

    Sure you can still level the neck but it is practically no point. Azerite is just passively gained from doing most end-game activities. And once you unlocked all gear rings it is no longer relevant for gear. And only relevant to 80 if you want to unlock the entire neck for stamina/stuff.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Couldn't they just have removed azerite gear before BFA launched?
    And why would they remove core components BEFORE launch?

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Do you think Azerite gear has made the game better? Is it worth all the resources Blizzard have used to create it?
    The release version? No that was terrible. The final version? Yes, I think it did. And even if it didn't, it lead to Blizzard getting better at making those systems in the future.

    Creating good systems from nothing is incredibly hard. Fixing flawed system is much easier to do. If Blizzard had thrown away every system in it's first iteration, the game would be a terrible mess. Like..not "mmo champion complains about it" bad, but actual catastrophic bad. This can be seen quite easily when looking at how much every xpansion improves over its patch cycle. First iterations are almost always bad and there will always be a guy who will demand their immediate removal.

    And while, in hindsight, it's always easy to say "Ha, everyone clearly knew this particular system was not worth saving!", it's a lot harder to make those calls when you are actively developing them. So no. Blizzard should not cut off systems the moment they aren't working. And they should definetely not do it the moment someone pretending to speak for the majority is demanding it. Because if they did that, not feature would ever be made.
    Last edited by owbu; 2020-03-30 at 06:47 PM.
    "And all those exclamation marks, you notice? Five?
    A sure sign of someone who wears his underpants on his head."

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostile View Post
    Pretty sure wow still outnumbers both.

    FFXIV nor ESO will catch up until they have unfucked the endgame and specially the pvp.
    I think Final Fantasy alone had 10 mil the last time it anounced #.

    At least they have endgame and PVP, all wow has are broken classes battlegrounds and raids raids raids

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Jackson View Post
    I think Final Fantasy alone had 10 mil the last time it anounced #.

    At least they have endgame and PVP, all wow has are broken classes battlegrounds and raids raids raids
    They are announcing accounts created (for whatever reason) and not active subs. If we went with that wow broke 100m in pandria.


    Wows PvP at its worst is still miles ahead of ffxivs fucked up server ticks and esos fucked up.. everything.

    Not to mention the lack of anything beyond lfr raids

  9. #89
    Ion should get the Gamespot Dev of the year award for the fantastic job he's done in propelling WoW into the best MMO in the world.

  10. #90
    If something doesn't work, then just drop it. Don't spend months trying to save a lost cause only to end up with something which makes the game worse.
    Read this: https://autodidacticdesigner.com/201...l-your-babies/

    This mantra has a few other forms, like "kill your darlings", but the idea is the same - don't hold onto your ideas simply because they're your's.

    While I agree with you fundamentally, I disagree that Blizzard should kill a released feature just because it flops immediately. There are plenty of reasons a feature could flop despite their testing and validation. The primary reason is player behavior differs from their expectation. Players are going to engage with content in ways the developer can't even fathom. This is true across all software industries, by the way. That's why many software devs now operate under an Agile model, where they iterate rapidly and release to customers often.

    Unfortunately, while I'm 99.99% sure Blizzard operates as an Agile team, their product cannot be agile. They can't deploy half-baked features. They have to deploy finished content. They have to spend months / years developing a feature or piece of content before it can be released to live WoW, and at that point, they're invested in it. Perhaps the numbers are off with their feature, like raid boss health or mechanic timing. Perhaps one tiny piece makes the whole thing sour, like a poor talent row on a class. Perhaps they simply didn't account for the interaction between X and Y, which screws over the whole feature. No matter the issue, they try to take steps to fix what's broken and present the feature again. This is iteration, and it's good.

    The reason I agree with you is that Blizzard shouldn't be releasing these poor features at all. If a feature tests really poorly in alpha, fix or gut that shit. If they properly test a feature internally, on alpha, and on beta, and people love it yet it flops in live WoW, that's one thing. But if they forego alpha and beta testing, or spit in the faces of testers, that's on them. Azerite is an EXCELLENT example of this. They need to devote a lot more time to testing and taking feedback seriously, otherwise they'll keep releasing BfA type expansions.

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Blizzard need to much more critical when it comes to their own work. If something doesn't work, then just drop it. Don't spend months trying to save a lost cause only to end up with something which makes the game worse. With systems like the Azerite gear which from the beginning clearly didn't work they just need to make a clear cut and remove it from the game instead of using a lot of resources trying to fix something which is already lost. Azerite gear brought much more negatives to the game than positives and adding systems like that is only damaging. Especially when they use extra resources on them. Only a very small minority of players are going to look back at the Azerite gear with any positive feelings. The same thing can be said about the corruption gear. The situations where you feel bad because of the corruption just massively outweighs the times when you feel good. They shouldn't spend time and resources on these systems which just have a overall negative impact on the game. If something clearly doesn't work, they just need to put their proudness aside and cut it from the game. Simple as that.

    If your game has fun content people will play it. Don't add negatives to it.
    Another armchair developer explaining to us how he can do everythin better.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Crabs have been removed from the game... because if I see another one I’m just going to totally lose it. *sobbing* I’m sorry, I just can’t right now... I just... OK just give me a minute, I’ll be OK..

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    Blizzard need to much more critical when it comes to their own work. If something doesn't work, then just drop it. Don't spend months trying to save a lost cause only to end up with something which makes the game worse. With systems like the Azerite gear which from the beginning clearly didn't work they just need to make a clear cut and remove it from the game instead of using a lot of resources trying to fix something which is already lost. Azerite gear brought much more negatives to the game than positives and adding systems like that is only damaging. Especially when they use extra resources on them. Only a very small minority of players are going to look back at the Azerite gear with any positive feelings. The same thing can be said about the corruption gear. The situations where you feel bad because of the corruption just massively outweighs the times when you feel good. They shouldn't spend time and resources on these systems which just have a overall negative impact on the game. If something clearly doesn't work, they just need to put their proudness aside and cut it from the game. Simple as that.

    If your game has fun content people will play it. Don't add negatives to it.
    You're wrong about azerite gear. It was fixed.

    Corruption gear you might be right about. We will have to see at the end.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamais View Post
    They tried to give players their own customizable tier set. It hasn't turned out perfect, but it is an improvement over tier sets from every point of view (except for the looks, but that is another topic). There is no malicious intent behind their decision.

    I would rather they expand and improve on that concept, then going back to tier sets, which had many, many problems, many of them most people seem to leave out.
    I don't think there is anything malicious behind it at all. It have just added more negatives than positives to the game due to the large dependency on RNG.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sansnom View Post
    And why would they remove core components BEFORE launch?
    Because it was broken.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I don't think there is anything malicious behind it at all. It have just added more negatives than positives to the game due to the large dependency on RNG.

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    Because it was broken.
    What rng dude? Did you miss the ability to purchase specific one? Or ability to drop specific ones from raid?

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by munkeyinorbit View Post
    You're wrong about azerite gear. It was fixed.
    I find the effects of the azerite gear completely pointless. Most of them is just "increased damage". So we just end up with a pointless system which just adds another layer of RNG to the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    What rng dude? Did you miss the ability to purchase specific one? Or ability to drop specific ones from raid?
    The Titan Residuum vendor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    Another armchair developer explaining to us how he can do everythin better.
    Not at all. I'm just saying that Blizzard shouldn't spend time on systems which don't add any value to the game and just end up being annoying. You don't have to be a developer to see that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarithras View Post
    Read this: https://autodidacticdesigner.com/201...l-your-babies/

    This mantra has a few other forms, like "kill your darlings", but the idea is the same - don't hold onto your ideas simply because they're your's.

    While I agree with you fundamentally, I disagree that Blizzard should kill a released feature just because it flops immediately.
    The feature should never have been released. They got plenty of feedback before the launch of BFA telling that the system was broken. But Blizzard just chose not to listen to any of it.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I find the effects of the azerite gear completely pointless. Most of them is just "increased damage". So we just end up with a pointless system which just adds another layer of RNG to the game.
    But if it is pointless why does it matter if it adds a layer of RNG or not?
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by owbu View Post
    The release version? No that was terrible. The final version? Yes, I think it did. And even if it didn't, it lead to Blizzard getting better at making those systems in the future.

    Creating good systems from nothing is incredibly hard. Fixing flawed system is much easier to do. If Blizzard had thrown away every system in it's first iteration, the game would be a terrible mess. Like..not "mmo champion complains about it" bad, but actual catastrophic bad. This can be seen quite easily when looking at how much every xpansion improves over its patch cycle. First iterations are almost always bad and there will always be a guy who will demand their immediate removal.

    And while, in hindsight, it's always easy to say "Ha, everyone clearly knew this particular system was not worth saving!", it's a lot harder to make those calls when you are actively developing them. So no. Blizzard should not cut off systems the moment they aren't working. And they should definetely not do it the moment someone pretending to speak for the majority is demanding it. Because if they did that, not feature would ever be made.
    The Azerite system doesn't improve the gameplay of WoW. It adds not value it all. The only thing it does is adding yet another layer of RNG to the game.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    I find the effects of the azerite gear completely pointless. Most of them is just "increased damage". So we just end up with a pointless system which just adds another layer of RNG to the game.

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    The Titan Residuum vendor.
    Titan residuum vendor sells SPECIFIC ones too.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    But if it is pointless why does it matter if it adds a layer of RNG or not?
    Because it impacts your performance. A system which impacts performance but not gameplay is pointless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kaminaris View Post
    Titan residuum vendor sells SPECIFIC ones too.
    True. But that still doesn't turn the negative into a positve. You have the choice between luck or waiting 10 weeks for 1 piece. Non of those option brings the player any joy. It's just a negative situation no matter what. The game would be better if you didn't have to worry about the system at all.

    In when you combine that with the system not adding any positive gameplay impact it just turn the system into a pointless pain.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaver View Post
    The Azerite system doesn't improve the gameplay of WoW. It adds not value it all. The only thing it does is adding yet another layer of RNG to the game.
    If it adds no value why to people want it? Don't confuse value with "I don't like it". It impacts game play in minor ways (some specs have bigger synergy). Its RNG is minimal because there are enough sources and limited trait pool that it doesn't take long to get the specific ones you want.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

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