Cut off the arm to save the body.

[Zantera]

That's because you don't do high-end content my friend. The acquisition method is still a problem if you're trying to get max parses in mythic raiding. I get my BiS piece of Azerite gear on Wednesday but I had to wait 9-10 weeks to get it. That's not enjoyable at all. And the BiS piece doesn't impact my gameplay at all. It only impacts my performance. No fun in that.

Nobody who does high end content care about their parses man to that extent man, you almost had me fooled. The only people who care if they go from a 90 parse to a 100 are mid tier players.

[Sondrelk]

When Blizzard spend a lot of time and money on developing a system then that system shoulder do better than what Azerite gear does. Much better. Especially when it also adds a lot of negative impact based on RNG. What you describe is not any interesting or engaging changes to your gameplay. It's not enough at all.

Mind defining what this actually means? Because so far you just seem to eb moving goalposts.

Azerite aquisition is fine, you have 3 slots locked, but yo ualways know what pieces those are, and you never get into a situation that you might with Tier sets where the only 4 pieces yo uhad forced you to use a set piece with terrible stats over an amazing item you would much rather equip.
Most of the azerite abilities are about as impactful as a 4-piece tier set would be, and considering you always have at least 2 different ones at all times you could in theory be said to always have a tier set equipped.
They do have variety, not all abilities are great, some being situational and some simply being undertuned, but that doesnt mean the variety isnt there. If you play a character for fun instead of solely to do great in raiding then you could easily make a custom build that would feel more fun to you as the player, instead of simply doing the best DPS at all times.

Also, what RNG? The Azerite gear has fixed abilities, and you can see them in the dungeon journal, it isnt like they drop randomly and with random abilities. Only the ones you specifically buy cheaply off the vendor does, and for those you could both save up for a better one, or buy several cheaper ones, nothing is forcing you to get that exact mythic piece all the time, especially when the ability is mostly what you want.

[erifwodahs]

Isn't that the same with Azerite gear or the HoA? Only now it is much harder to find out wether a new piece is actually an upgrade or a downgrade.
Got a new piece that's 30 ilvl higher than the old one? Well, it's got shit traits, so scrap it.

I don't raid and I have my bis traits on my 480 azerites. HoA has nothing to do with raiding. How is it harder to find out? Rings are the only pieces which are harder to find out.
Azerite pieces? Discord/icy veins/hero dmg
Trinkets? Discord/icy veins/hero dmg
Talents? Discord/icy veins/hero dmg
Corruption? Dicord/icy veins/ hero dmg

EXACTLY THE SAME as what we did 13 years ago -.-
But x piece might be 3% better than an y piece! I NEED TO KNOW and I can only sim!
EXACTLY THE SAME as 13 years ago just you did not sim, you literally hit mobs and see if +13 crit adds more dps than +13 haste.
You can't deny wearing old tier sets/dungeon items and other crap which was better than raid drops. Or previous tier raid drops were better than current tier. Not even talkiing about trinkets.
Shitload of people were wearing crap items or not synergised gear because "it's a raid drop". Did they know if it was better? No. In fact it was so crap, that based on your comp your bis gear would change because of mana regen and buffs

[rhorle]

I don't think you can see it from my point of view because iirc you don't do any content where the gear actually matters.

You keep bringing this up as if it matters. Azerite doesn't change the higher you get up in content. All it does is make you arrogant and elitist for no purpose. You also don't do any content where the gear matters because you are not in the top 1% who has cleared the content with out BiS gear. We can all make stupid rules to limit perfectly reasonable responses. That doesn't give what you are saying any more merit just because you want to limit who can question you.

I would think the same no matter what content I do. Because it is a game wide system and not something restricted or changed by higher content. It also doesn't matter what you said in your original, or other, post. Because you keep changing it based on responses just to my own posts. Every time something is pointed out to not be an issue you change what is wrong. No value, no game play, no positives, a bunch of negatives etc. Each time you switch up what is wrong as if it changes anything. It doesn't.

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Well not really. Most of the traits doesn't change the way you play your character. And normal gear doesn't take a lot of money to develop. And it doesn't add heavy RNG to your competitiveness.

Normal gear doesn't add heavy RNG to competitiveness? So how are you going to compete if you don't get the drop you need? "Being more competitive" is game play. Also why is being competitive such a huge factor to you if being able to be more competitive is not fun or engaging for you as a player?

[Biomega]

Legendaries, Azerite gear and Corruption all had the same main problem. The acquisition method. But Blizzard didn't listen to us when we gave feedback on the Legendaris after Legion. If they had they would never have implemented Azerite gear or Corruption the way they did.

I'd say that Azerite and Corruption have more problems than just the acquisition. Azerite is rigid and unbalanced, because there's so few pieces most specs actually want and it's a nightmare to respec them; while Corruption is just ludicrously unbalanced in terms of power levels and how much they benefit certain classes/specs. Legiondaries weren't immune to this, but it was less problematic.

And I agree 100% that acquisition is fucked up in all cases.

[rhorle]

Do you know what the quickest way of getting to the point where you can cleanse the gear is? I'm at the point where once a toon gets to an iLevel of about 410, they I just park them. thanks in advance

Doing the intro quests for 8.3 that get you the cloak.

[Sondrelk]

Doing the intro quests for 8.3 that get you the cloak.

You do acutally have to get all the way to Horrific visions to cleanse gear unless you are already raiding an looting the minibosses. So i guess that is a legitimate grievance, certainly was when i geared up all my alts with the legendary cloak.

[Relapses]

No they should just have bitten the bullet and scrapped the system completely. No need to add something to the game when it only makes the gaming experience worse.

That's not reasonable. A developer has every right to roll out a system if they believe enough in the vision to try it out. They tried, it failed. It didn't make it to the next expansion. Once again, I ask what your obsession with Azerite gear's failure is? If they were continuing Azerite gear in SL I'd say you have an argument but really, to me, it just looks like you want to remind people how shitty Azerite gear is and how much you dislike that it ever existed in the first place.

Cool. Want some cheese to go with your whine?

[Raone]

But they got PLENTY of feedback before the game went live. Why did they just ignore it completely. None of the alpha/beta testers thought that the Azerite Gear would work. And it didn't.

Azerite Armor didn't fully come till the tail end of the Beta and they didn't have max level characters boosts on the beta so everyone that was complaining about Azerite Armor was in the minority (not because it was a good system, but because most didn't know how bad it was yet). Also like I said it was near the end of the beta cycle which is when they mostly just do balancing so just deleting it would've forced them to re balance every class. I mean I can't imagine playing Brewmaster or some other specs without Azerite Armor. It "could've" been worse if they just flat out removed it, I mean if they did what's the point of AP? What's the point of Islands? It causes a ripple effect.

I'm not saying this to justify the existence of Azerite Armor, I posted about it's massive flaws in the beta too. It should've been tested since day one with max level boosts like Legion Artifact Weapons were but for some reason they delayed it till the end. This is an example of poor beta testing by blizzard if anything.

[rhorle]

You do acutally have to get all the way to Horrific visions to cleanse gear unless you are already raiding an looting the minibosses. So i guess that is a legitimate grievance, certainly was when i geared up all my alts with the legendary cloak.

You do not need to finish the quest line in order to unlock purification. You just need to get to the correct phase which is done with out even doing a HV. It just requires https://www.wowhead.com/quest=56376/surfacing-threats to be completed.

[Sondrelk]

You do not need to finish the quest line in order to unlock purification. You just need to get to the correct phase which is done with out even doing a HV. It just requires https://www.wowhead.com/quest=56376/surfacing-threats to be completed.

You get the purification, sure. But I don't think there is any way to get the corrupted mementos outside those 4 minibosses and horrific visions.

[rhorle]

You get the purification, sure. But I don't think there is any way to get the corrupted mementos outside those 4 minibosses and horrific visions.

You get small amounts of mementos from doing the content during the assaults. Purification only costs 5. You do not need to to horrific visions in order to purify. You will need to do it once or twice if you have a bunch to purify. But if you can do content to get corrupted items you might as well do thrall or alleria for a bunch. It also nets you a guaranteed corrupted item now.

[kaminaris]

That's because you don't do high-end content my friend. The acquisition method is still a problem if you're trying to get max parses in mythic raiding. I get my BiS piece of Azerite gear on Wednesday but I had to wait 9-10 weeks to get it. That's not enjoyable at all. And the BiS piece doesn't impact my gameplay at all. It only impacts my performance. No fun in that.

Duuude, you have like more chances now to drop azerite from raid than you had with tier sets. Again, you do not understand basic math. Droprate is pretty much comparable to previous expansions but you have to fill in 3 slots instead of 4 while in meantime rolling or buying them from vendor.

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That's not reasonable. A developer has every right to roll out a system if they believe enough in the vision to try it out. They tried, it failed. It didn't make it to the next expansion. Once again, I ask what your obsession with Azerite gear's failure is? If they were continuing Azerite gear in SL I'd say you have an argument but really, to me, it just looks like you want to remind people how shitty Azerite gear is and how much you dislike that it ever existed in the first place.

Cool. Want some cheese to go with your whine?

It didn't fail. Just people are dumb and dont understand (which I personally find mind blogging) that azerite gear as direct replacement for tier sets is far superior design.
As for visuals - we should simply get ensembles like in ToV.

[Tronski]

It didn't fail. Just people are dumb and dont understand (which I personally find mind blogging) that azerite gear as direct replacement for tier sets is far superior design.
As for visuals - we should simply get ensembles like in ToV.

In and of itself, azerite gear is marvelous. It gives so many choices you have to look up guides and sim every choice to get anywhere, which they dumbed down talent trees to avoid people doing in the first place. Now we get to make choices again, and that is great. You know what isn't great or marvelous? Grinding AP to unlock the powers.

There is probably a sweet spot to gearing that's somewhere between Classic and retail , but I think Blizzard has given up trying to find it despite them saying Shadowlands will be moving towards classic in that sense.

[rhorle]

Grinding AP to unlock the powers.

You never had to grind for Azerite gear. You could choose to do so but doing so didn't really gain you that much. The notion of grinding is attached to much to artifact power. More ranks didn't gain you much once you had all the rings unlocked. You can keep gaining neck ranks beyond 80 currently but no one "Grinds" for it. Except those that are doing it just to do.

[cparle87]

I'm complaining about traits and how out of the 20 of them 1 or 2 are good. Not getting the gear. You brought up the gear acquisition for Azerite, even though it's not that bad. I'm saying it's a bad system when 95% of the gear that drops higher level or not, is useless because the spinny wheel only has 1 useful skill out of the 5 presented.

That's one mindset I think a lot of people fall into incorrectly. Consider this. We all know Twilight Devastation is straightaway the single strongest AoE corruption. That's not contested. But is it the most dps for the amount of corruption it costs you? Looking at my own sims, for instance, I've found a pattern. Several weaker corruptions add up to being more dps than Twilight Devastation for the same amount of corruption gained. Like right now it's not possible to zero out a max rank Devastation or Stars. But you could zero out your corruption using several smaller pieces for a similar dps gain.

[AlmightyGerkin]

And in the past you got the same effects with tier gear with zero negatives.

It did have some negatives. Fact you were locked to that and could not break the 2/4 piece bonus at all even if say for Legion you were wearing 940 (can't remember the item level for heroic antorus) and your mythic chest contained 975

[PaladinBash]

I think Corruption is better than titanforging but shittier than Legion Legendaries and those in turn are worse than purely just tier sets which were a mixed bag but at least would regularly bounce between good and bad for every spec rather than just "you get to be OP for now and shit next expansion".

[kamuimac]

You get small amounts of mementos from doing the content during the assaults. Purification only costs 5. You do not need to to horrific visions in order to purify. You will need to do it once or twice if you have a bunch to purify. But if you can do content to get corrupted items you might as well do thrall or alleria for a bunch. It also nets you a guaranteed corrupted item now.

dont you need to do at least 1 vision to start obtaining mementos ?

because i certainly didnt get any from assault caches when i made mistake on 1 toon to open them (2 you get during cloak questline) before doing first vision and later opening archives ..

and when opening them after opening archives they were there

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You never had to grind for Azerite gear. You could choose to do so but doing so didn't really gain you that much. The notion of grinding is attached to much to artifact power. More ranks didn't gain you much once you had all the rings unlocked. You can keep gaining neck ranks beyond 80 currently but no one "Grinds" for it. Except those that are doing it just to do.

well my mission table is kinda passively grinidng do it when i run out of rep missions ;P

[Sondrelk]

I think Corruption is better than titanforging but shittier than Legion Legendaries and those in turn are worse than purely just tier sets which were a mixed bag but at least would regularly bounce between good and bad for every spec rather than just "you get to be OP for now and shit next expansion".

Legiondaries better than corruption? Are you serious? Some classes were dependant on their correct legendary, and using it had no downside, unlucky mages who needed the correct wrist legiondary could also get unlucky and get 3 terrible legiondaries for all their grinding and then be stuck until 7.1 when the legiondary cap was removed and could do nothing about it except reroll to another mage if they wanted to try again.

Corruption is better than this in every regard.
Corruption as a mechanic is already self-balancing, since a great corruption might put a player above the treshold where they can comfortably play compared to cheaper ones.
Corrupted gear can come from anywhere, with several avenues for guaranteed drops, meaning every player can get several corrupted peices to experiment with each week, most of whom will eventually become a good piece unless you are severely unlucky.
It is only the final patch, where OP systems are the norm rather than the exception, unlike Legiondaries which were in Legion from the start, cuasing grief to players who were not either extremely lucky, or willing to grind all free hours of the day in search for their ideal 2 pieces.