Page 4 of 26 FirstFirst ...
2
3
4
5
6
14
... LastLast
  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Devilyaki View Post
    I never had a problem with. Felt nice getting a bonus on something. People care way to much about what others are doing and getting in this game.
    Covers most of it.

    Besides the fury of the raidloggers, who don't want to play the game.

  2. #62
    Herald of the Titans YEETmeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    The Nordics
    Posts
    2,786
    Remember when Warforging was good and you could upgrade your gear with valor?

    MoP remembers.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedius View Post
    TF was just stupid, that encouraged people to do all difficulties in the hope of getting a proc. My guild used to do 2 difficulty runs as standard for TF procs, it just caused burn out...

    It was a system that promoted tediousness that completely devalued difficulty of content.

    If someone isn't doing harder content there is absolutely ZERO need for them to have such gear. WoW did fine without it till before Legion. Want the higher ilvl gear? Do the difficulty for it.

    All that being said, this corruption system blows just as much.

    Yes, the problem was how high a titanforging could go, it should never ever be on par with the highest possible content, but raiding had devalued alot since legion now to, why raid when a 5 man gives u the same gear and perhaps better satisfaction? Cause you can go pretty high in difficulty and is easyer and more manageable then having to deal with 19 other people

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by YEETmeister View Post
    Remember when Warforging was good and you could upgrade your gear with valor?

    MoP remembers.

    I loved that system, sure wasnt perfect, but it had something good to it

  4. #64
    Over 9000! Mirishka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Get off my lawn!
    Posts
    9,923
    The idea of being able to upgrade gear is fine. Its the RNG of TF/WF that sucked. Like in Mists how we could farm that currency and go to the ethereals and upgrade stuff by choice? That was a great system. That let you make a little progress even on weeks where nothing dropped.

    But the feeling that your BIS trinket that just dropped could have TF'd 30 ilevels higher and didn't? That honestly kind of sucked.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by YEETmeister View Post
    Remember when Warforging was good and you could upgrade your gear with valor?

    MoP remembers.
    This!

    /10chars
    My greatest fear is that one day, my MMO-Champion ignore list will run out of space.

  5. #65
    Legendary!
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Not in Europe Anymore Yay
    Posts
    6,382
    Most people knew that WF/TF were fine. People cried in Legion without understanding how the system worked, you had myths of LFR players in full sets of Mythic gear. We know now that was never the case. The odds of getting an LFR piece to Mythic base were about on par with hitting a smaller lottery. We learned near the end of Legion that from Normal you were likely to get one piece of Normal level gear that would TF to around Mythic base per tier. It never stopped being "Do the hardest content get the best rewards." There was just a chance that you'd hit the lottery and get a singular nice piece of gear that was equivalent to pretty much every single thing that dropped for me as a Mythic raider. It didn't devalue my activities or rewards at all and it incentivized running content outside of what you normally would. Also people are obsessive about this game and the loot in it and struggled to see a bonus as a bonus and burned themselves out chasing it.

    Blizzard being Blizzard they like to change things even if they don't need changing. So now WF/TF are gone for Corruption, and in SL Corruption will be gone for something else, and people who spent years whining about TF/WF will be waxing poetic about it. Just like how when Valor points was current content in any of its implementations people hated it, but once we were in the WF/TF era people waxed poetic about how great valor had been.
    AchaeaKoralin - Are you still out there?| FOR THE HORDE | I might make you angry but I'm right.

  6. #66
    Blaming people who wanted TF removed for Corruption is beyond moronic.

    No one could have anticipated a system like Corruption.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by RoKPaNda View Post
    Most people knew that WF/TF were fine. People cried in Legion without understanding how the system worked, you had myths of LFR players in full sets of Mythic gear. We know now that was never the case. The odds of getting an LFR piece to Mythic base were about on par with hitting a smaller lottery. We learned near the end of Legion that from Normal you were likely to get one piece of Normal level gear that would TF to around Mythic base per tier. It never stopped being "Do the hardest content get the best rewards." There was just a chance that you'd hit the lottery and get a singular nice piece of gear that was equivalent to pretty much every single thing that dropped for me as a Mythic raider. It didn't devalue my activities or rewards at all and it incentivized running content outside of what you normally would. Also people are obsessive about this game and the loot in it and struggled to see a bonus as a bonus and burned themselves out chasing it.

    Blizzard being Blizzard they like to change things even if they don't need changing. So now WF/TF are gone for Corruption, and in SL Corruption will be gone for something else, and people who spent years whining about TF/WF will be waxing poetic about it. Just like how when Valor points was current content in any of its implementations people hated it, but once we were in the WF/TF era people waxed poetic about how great valor had been.
    Wf tf was terribly flawed and a negative for the game. There shouldn't be a variety of power rewards for completing the same content it hinders progression and turns the entire communities mindset into grind= good.

    Corruption is worse but let's not pretend this isn't a argument between awful and terrible.

  8. #68
    The Lightbringer Lazuli's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Your Moms House
    Posts
    3,584
    Quote Originally Posted by haediff View Post
    I don't understand why people would want to raid or even play the game when there's no chance to get an upgrade. Once your guild has finally cleared the new tier and you've farmed it for half a year and everyone has had their BiS items forever what's the point? Now with WF/TF gone they've replaced it with an even worse system and come Shadowlands they're either going to remove any sort of loot powercreep system and stick with corruption or have something as bad or worse. WF/TFing was the only thing that gave a little incentive to do the same content over and over for a chance at character progression. Who cares if some LFR floor-licker got a mythic level TF item; it's not like these people are going to somehow become better than you and start raiding mythic because they have a TF piece now. The good players progress the hardest content and the rest don't, regardless of gear.
    Sorry OP (not sorry) but your shitty opinion is why WoW sucks today and I doubt you'll get many sympathizers other than the devs themselves obviously who want you to nolife WoW 24/7.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nadiru View Post
    The point is "you beat the patch, good job you can go play not-WoW if you want, or play an alt"
    This.
    LOL

    ♫Toss a coin to your witcher♫

    I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lathais View Post
    I think we may be waiting a long time for that to happen. Maybe even forever.

  9. #69
    Herald of the Titans YEETmeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    The Nordics
    Posts
    2,786
    Quote Originally Posted by Domm530 View Post
    I loved that system, sure wasnt perfect, but it had something good to it
    Wasn't perfect, but it was far better and wasn't very extreme with the item level, it was just +7.

    You also had a reason to farm Valor Points as well through the entire expansion without being tedious.
    There was a cap at 1000 each week, unlike with AP where there is no real limit.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by YEETmeister View Post
    Wasn't perfect, but it was far better and wasn't very extreme with the item level, it was just +7.

    You also had a reason to farm Valor Points as well through the entire expansion without being tedious.
    There was a cap at 1000 each week, unlike with AP where there is no real limit.
    I'm tired of poor design excusing terrible design. Things should just revert back to tbc loot presunwell.

  11. #71
    Herald of the Titans YEETmeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    The Nordics
    Posts
    2,786
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue Karl View Post
    I'm tired of poor design excusing terrible design. Things should just revert back to tbc loot presunwell.
    I can't give an opinion on that I'm afraid, since I started with the release of Cataclysm, and the only thing I saw in TBC was Dun Morogh and Loch Modan on a trial account.

  12. #72
    I don't have an issue if there is a currency system that everyone can cap that can be used to increase the ilvl of your gear, and that currency can drop anywhere from world quest to mythic raiding. That gives you control and steady progression. Normal can drop base 500 and takes triple the effort to level to 550, while Mythic can drop base 540 and only need one leveling to 550.

    I do have an issue with artificially inflating the ilvl through strict RNG, and I am speaking as someone that got lucky with a few key pieces of gear. Maybe you think it's fun to proc a mythic level piece of gear while doing normal, I don't think it's ok to award gear like that, and much less without a single bit of control. Higher "tier" activity like Mythic raiding and high-level RBG/Arena takes much more coordination, dedication, and "skill" that the reward SHOULD be better. If your issue is about lack of character progression doing easy things (which I would also debate that you don't need the gear, but also understand that it feels bad to hit a cap so easily), then my proposal above should be completely fine for you.

    As far as Corruption system, philosophically it is actually a very good system if they handled it right, but of course they didn't, intentionally or not.

  13. #73
    I just hate that you can get corrupted stuff before you get your cloak, and unlock the ability to remove it.

    Go a sweet 420 weapon on a baby alt, can't use it cuz it's 60 corruption. That cloak quest just sucks by the 5 th or 10th time, mini skips be damned.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Clickbait Mick View Post
    Blaming people who wanted TF removed for Corruption is beyond moronic.
    Blizzard would never implement corruption if it wasnt for those people.

  15. #75
    Stealthed Defender unbound's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    All that moves is easily heard in the void.
    Posts
    6,176
    Quote Originally Posted by haediff View Post
    WF/TFing was the only thing that gave a little incentive to do the same content over and over for a chance at character progression.
    There we go. This is the start of understanding the major problem with Retail WoW.

    To push a bit further to fully appreciate, focus less at the beginning of that sentence, and focus more on the middle of that sentence.

    "...same content over and over..."

    That's the part. That's what a lot more people need to yell at Blizz about. That is, in reality, the true difference between the peak days of WoW (Vanilla, BC, Wrath) and today.

    Blizz used to be very clear about the reason for the monthly fee. It was supposed to pay for additional content. Notice that Blizz doesn't talk about that part anymore...

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by haediff View Post
    I don't understand why people would want to raid or even play the game when there's no chance to get an upgrade.
    When classes were still fun to play in general, playing the game with "completed" gear was actually when the real fun began - it's understandable why people who started wow in wod/legion would find this a completely alien concept though, since that was when the concept of completed gear was removed.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    WF/TF was not fine. It was an awful, terrible dumb fucking system that ruined two entire expansions. Good riddance.
    Eh, it worked just fine for me. My only issue was getting the right gear slot with the right stats in that worthless chest on Tuesday mornings. Other than that I had fairly good luck with raid gear socketing and WF/TFing.

  18. #78
    Not a fan of either system.
    I miss when you were able to simply upgrade an item with valor points.

    WF/TF more often than not left me with a feeling of "dang, if only this
    item magically improved itself for no reason".

    Corruption is just a mess.
    Too many benefitial effects that i have no way of influencing how i aquire, the game
    chooses what effect is on the item without requiring any input from me at all.

    Can i get an item that lets me benefit more from haste?
    Maaaaaybe, maybe not, who knows, i sure don`t and i have no idea
    how i could get one beyond just farming and crossing my fingers, hoping
    for the best.

    If you told me i could say run Tol Dagor for a shoulder cloth piece with haste, then do other activites
    to accumulate upgrade points, spend said points to improve the stats on the item at a vendor of sorts.
    That would make it far more enjoyable.

  19. #79
    I agree, I kinda miss warforging/titanforging. No boss was completely a dead end in terms of upgrades - theoretically almost any boss could still drop an upgrade. Now the most it can do is drop a corrupted item which you can't use because you're already at whatever is your chosen corruption cap.

    I'm also firmly of the opinion that the preferences of the top 1% of mythic players should be ignored and, if anything, they should be kicked from the game. The game should be designed around people who enjoy playing it, not around people who make it their job.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by haediff View Post
    WF/TFing was the only thing that gave a little incentive to do the same content over and over for a chance at character progression.
    I wouldn't really classify WF/TFing as "character progression". Certainly not very meaningful.

    With that said, the main incentive should be that you just enjoy playing. The secondary incentive should be the gear itself, and it really isn't that bad for it to be a finite obtainable goal. The already-existing RNG of loot drops + having to share them with the raid is enough to make the content last a good while.

    I would argue what you need after farming a raid tier for half a year is new content, not incentives to continue playing the same content for X months. You're literally asking to chase a carrot at the end of a stick, instead of just asking for a better carrot at the end of the road, or just a more fun road to walk in.


    Don't get me wrong, it's fine to have that preference if that's yours. But for many people it's a huge turn off that feels more like playing a WoW-themed slot machine than an actual RPG. And if I get to pick between a better game that isn't as replayable or a worse game that's more replayable, I'll pick the better game any day.

    Personally I wouldn't necessarily eliminate WF/TF, I'd just re-introduce a currency system (like Valor Points) and have WF/TF essentially be a small chance of the loot dropping already upgraded. Meaning you'd still get some exciting small chance drops, but if you didn't you could just work towards getting it anyway through valor points.

    It's not a flawless system, but imo it's a good compromise / best of both worlds kind of deal.
    Last edited by Kolvarg; 2020-04-01 at 02:18 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •