When would cybernetics no longer make a person be human?

[Mayhem]

It very much is. It's normally triggered by outside influences that cause us to adapt to our surroundings.

That's adaptation, not evolution.

That evolution isn't triggered by outside influence can be seen with every animal that went extinct thanks to mankind's influence on the world.

[Orange Joe]

That's adaptation, not evolution.

That evolution isn't triggered by outside influence can be seen with every animal that went extinct thanks to mankind's influence on the world.

adaption = evolution.

And every species that IS alive shows it is triggered by outside influence.

[omeomorfismo]

I think once you start being able to have experiences no human could possibly have. Like for example if I see someone pinned under something heavy and I am able to use my cybernetics to lift the object up and pull the person out, I am not having a human experience. Instead, I am having an augmented human experience, doing something no other human could ever do. I do think it's a sliding scale though, the more you give up, the less and less real human experiences you will have, thus the less and less human you will be. With the end being you no longer being able to be genetically identified as human.

this definition is so weak that even a compass or every other tool fall in it. ex. no human can sense where the north is, but with a compass is easy as fuck

adaption = evolution.

And every species that IS alive shows it is triggered by outside influence.

no.
evolution is the survival of the most optimized individuals.
adaptation is the "modification" of an individual in response of the environment
evolution doesnt work on the individual, but on the chain of offsprings.

[Orange Joe]

no.
evolution is the survival of the most adapted individuals.
adaptation is the "modification" of an individual in response of the environment
evolution doesnt work on the individual, but on the chain of offsprings.

Think about what you just said.

[omeomorfismo]

Think about what you just said.

that evolution works on chain of individuals and their survival

adaptation works on individuals and its a modification

they are fundamentally different

then the fact that i used adapted, and not adaptation is relevant (even if this should be surely more clear in italian with our use of participle)

[Orange Joe]

that evolution works on chain of individuals and their survival

adaptation works on individuals and its a modification

they are fundamentally different

then the fact that i used adapted, and not adaptation is relevant (even if this should be surely more clear in italian with our use of participle)

Wait. Are you trying to say adapted and adaption are something different?

ad·ap·ta·tion

/ˌadapˈtāSH(ə)n/
Learn to pronounce



noun
noun: adaptation; plural noun: adaptations


the action or process of adapting or being adapted.
"the adaptation of teaching strategy to meet students' needs"

[omeomorfismo]

Wait. Are you trying to say adapted and adaption are something different?

i mean, im traslanting from italian, so my "adapted" is a passive form, when "adaptation" would be an active form. frankly i havent any idea how translating it in english
it a sea different and not even the fundamental one

[Sunseeker]

adaption = evolution.

And every species that IS alive shows it is triggered by outside influence.

Yeah but you're aware this isn't like triggering your mutant X-gene right? Like, you don't go through a really stressful event and suddenly wake up with gills or an extra arm.

[Mayhem]

adaption = evolution.

And every species that IS alive shows it is triggered by outside influence.

No and no.

Evolution is chance in action. A mutation that happens to adapt an individual better to their environment, therefore giving it a better chance at creating offspring and thus changing the species as a whole, offspring by offspring.

The ones that through evolution don't adapt better to their environment are just killed off really fast and therefore you never see/hear/read about them.

[Orange Joe]

i mean, im traslanting from italian, so my "adapted" is a passive form, when "adaptation" would be an active form. frankly i havent any idea how translating it in english
it a sea different and not even the fundamental one

Not really sure how I can explain it, but in English the two words are not really fundamentally different.

Yeah but you're aware this isn't like triggering your mutant X-gene right? Like, you don't go through a really stressful event and suddenly wake up with gills or an extra arm.

No, not at all what I'm saying. But if earths temps start raising humans that can handle heat better will survive long and pass those genes onto the next generation IE evolve. (granted evolution generally takes many generations.)

No and no.

Evolution is chance in action. A mutation that happens to adapt an individual better to their environment, therefore giving it a better chance at creating offspring and thus changing the species as a whole, offspring by offspring.

The ones that through evolution don't adapt better to their environment are just killed off really fast and therefore you never see/hear/read about them.

You seem to be using word and not really understand what you are saying. Here try this. Explain evolution without using adapt or mutate.

[Mayhem]

You seem to be using word and not really understand what you are saying. Here try this. Explain evolution without using adapt or mutate.

That is impossible, you can't explain evolution without mutation. And you seem to just won't understand that mutation can go both ways if it's positive for the individual it increases their chance at finding mating partners if it's negative it decreases their chance.

- - - Updated - - -

No, not at all what I'm saying. But if earths temps start raising humans that can handle heat better will survive long and pass those genes onto the next generation IE evolve. (granted evolution generally takes many generations.)

What? Earths temps start raising humans?! <- What is that supposed to mean?

[Sunseeker]

No, not at all what I'm saying. But if earths temps start raising humans that can handle heat better will survive long and pass those genes onto the next generation IE evolve. (granted evolution generally takes many generations.)

Sure. But I'd also like to point out this is happening all the time (not the hear raising, but various stressors). Disease, weather, environment, competition w/other humans, it's happening all over the planet, all the time.

[Orange Joe]

That is impossible, you can't explain evolution without mutation. And you seem to just won't understand that mutation can go both ways if it's positive for the individual it increases their chance at finding mating partners if it's negative it decreases their chance.

Where did I say it can't be negative?

What? Earths temps start raising humans?! <- What is that supposed to mean?

My god man. Are you that dense you can't infer I simply missed a , there? I mean Christ how do you survive on the internet if you need perfect punctuation to understand something?

- - - Updated - - -

Sure. But I'd also like to point out this is happening all the time (not the hear raising, but various stressors). Disease, weather, environment, competition w/other humans, it's happening all over the planet, all the time.

And we are slowly evolving/adapting to survive this stuff better. it's why some of us are white and some are black. insert other adaptions of humans races to better survive their climate.

[Mayhem]

My god man. Are you that dense you can't infer I simply missed a , there? I mean Christ how do you survive on the internet if you need perfect punctuation to understand something?

Sorry, English isn't my first language so it's sometimes still confusing. Anyway, you almost got it, apart from the earths temps raising doesn't trigger human becoming better at handling heat but the ones handling heat better already will survive.

So the trigger in your example does fuck all for evolution, it's just the thing that kills off those that aren't evolved.

[Orange Joe]

Sorry, English isn't my first language so it's sometimes still confusing.

I need to remember this more often and I apologize for coming off rude.

Anyway, you almost got it, apart from the earths temps raising doesn't trigger human becoming better at handling heat but the ones handling heat better already will survive.

So the trigger in your example does fuck all for evolution, it's just the thing that kills off those that aren't evolved.

Maybe not current heat, but it triggers it so they may be able to survive higher temps later on.

Thats how evolution works. A mutation happens that better allows them to survive their current conditions, they then live longer to pass those genes on to more of it's species.

[Shadowferal]

That's adaptation, not evolution.

That evolution isn't triggered by outside influence can be seen with every animal that went extinct thanks to mankind's influence on the world.

Species went extinct because they couldn't adapt.
Think about what replaced carnivores, I mean creodonts.

[Mayhem]

I need to remember this more often and I apologize for coming off rude.

Ah don't worry about it.

Maybe not current heat, but it triggers it so they may be able to survive higher temps later on.

No, it triggers nothing. They either survive higher temps if they are evolved to survive higher temps or they will go the way of the dodo just as the ones that already didn't survive the current heat.

Thats how evolution works. A mutation happens that better allows them to survive their current conditions, they then live longer to pass those genes on to more of it's species.

Yes, but again, the mutation isn't triggered, it's a failure that happens to increase the chances of surviving. It's also not a guarantee, if a mutation happens that lets one person breathe underwater but that person is living nowhere near water and never creates offspring that quite awesome mutation just ceases to exist.

X-Men is a comic, not the real world.

[Sunseeker]

And we are slowly evolving/adapting to survive this stuff better. it's why some of us are white and some are black. insert other adaptions of humans races to better survive their climate.

Okay fair enough, on first read it sounded like you were treating evolution more like x-man-style mutating. I gotcha now.

[Orange Joe]

Yes, but again, the mutation isn't triggered, it's a failure that happens to increase the chances of surviving. It's also not a guarantee, if a mutation happens that lets one person breathe underwater but that person is living nowhere near water and never creates offspring that quite awesome mutation just ceases to exist.

X-Men is a comic, not the real world.

I'm not claiming anything like xmen. This is a process that takes 100/1000 if not 100,000 of years.

Galapagos island finches is a perfect example. Finches that came from the main land and adapted/evolved to survive their current habitat.

[Mayhem]

Species went extinct because they couldn't adapt.

That is simply wrong, species went extinct because none of them were evolved enough to survive the changing conditions. A species can't by means of evolution adapt itself to changing conditions, they either already are adapted to these changes, some of them are adapted which suddenly makes them more likely to finding mating partners, or they go extinct.

Think about what replaced carnivores.

Carnivores are still around, what are you talking about?