If TBC becomes a thing, Blizzard needs to make "change" to prevent faction imbalance

[kenn9530]

Stop stop stop stop stop.....

This is not how data works please knock it off with this nonsense.

Your just ignoring the data gathered anyway since it doesnt suit your view of the game, only 1/3rd of the servers are estimated to have over 50k characters so, half the servers only have medium/low servers and the capacity of each server is around 10k for concurrent players. Without sharding there is space for around 1 million players but only half the servers are considered full.

[Mosha]

Your just ignoring the data gathered anyway since it doesnt suit your view of the game, only 1/3rd of the servers are estimated to have over 50k characters so, half the servers only have medium/low servers and the capacity of each server is around 10k for concurrent players. Without sharding there is space for around 1 million players but only half the servers are considered full.

I have no view at all in this I don’t care if classic has 10 million or 200 players. I just like looking into stuff like this. What you’re presenting is just nonsense. When data is gathered in a way like this, it’s crude and highly susceptible to being completely inaccurate when looking for something like number of people or characters currently playing.

It does have a good subject size making it really good for things like percentages. Like percentage of ally vs horde world wide, percentage of classes, etc etc.

But this data is not good for what you’re thinking it’s good for. Especially when you can find massive issues like a server only having 600 characters ever made on it.

There are way too many variables in place that makes this data inaccurate to count everyone. It’s not just one player per server, it’s one player per server per faction that is logged in at the same time as someone who isn’t tracked and actually has the program find them.

If you had data to show how many people per server, per faction, have this addon, and the accuracy at which it records a players info, and see on average how many hours a day this stuff is recording, then MAYBE it might be something more, but if you don’t...then this is all just a fucking crap shoot.

Like I said, good for some data, terrible for others.

Just read the rest of your post, dude you don’t KNOW what these numbers are per realm, okay? You just don’t. If you are blindly following this as something accurate to measure max players on a realm you need to stop wasting your time.

[kenn9530]

I have no view at all in this I don’t care if classic has 10 million or 200 players. I just like looking into stuff like this. What you’re presenting is just nonsense. When data is gathered in a way like this, it’s crude and highly susceptible to being completely inaccurate when looking for something like number of people or characters currently playing.

It does have a good subject size making it really good for things like percentages. Like percentage of ally vs horde world wide, percentage of classes, etc etc.

But this data is not good for what you’re thinking it’s good for. Especially when you can find massive issues like a server only having 600 characters ever made on it.

There are way too many variables in place that makes this data inaccurate to count everyone. It’s not just one player per server, it’s one player per server per faction that is logged in at the same time as someone who isn’t tracked and actually has the program find them.

If you had data to show how many people per server, per faction, have this addon, and the accuracy at which it records a players info, and see on average how many hours a day this stuff is recording, then MAYBE it might be something more, but if you don’t...then this is all just a fucking crap shoot.

Like I said, good for some data, terrible for others.

Just read the rest of your post, dude you don’t KNOW what these numbers are per realm, okay? You just don’t. If you are blindly following this as something accurate to measure max players on a realm you need to stop wasting your time.

Its the best information your going to get, its up to you if you choose to ignore 9 months of collected data, that more than enough data for a high probability of accuracy, fact is WoW classic is not as popular as some seem to think it is, have fun with whatever game your enjoying but when there are people claiming classic has 4 million plus players with no proof because they think classic is so much better than retail when in reality both games are essentially the same.

[Mosha]

Its the best information your going to get, its up to you if you choose to ignore 9 months of collected data, that more than enough data for a high probability of accuracy, fact is WoW classic is not as popular as some seem to think it is, have fun with whatever game your enjoying but when there are people claiming classic has 4 million plus players with no proof because they think classic is so much better than retail when in reality both games are essentially the same.

Best =/= good.

And yes, I will choose to ignore this very wonky data tyvm

Also I had to laugh at “high probability of accuracy”. LOL please dude. This addon at its core has so many variables that make it so easy to be wrong that it humors me that you believe this.

And here just to show you that I’m not on any side here, the number could be extremely extremely lower than what is posted here. Christ sake dude it’s clear what your bias is and it’s sort of making you believe some dumb things

[hulkgor]

No.

10char

[Tumile]

Nah you go play on shitty private servers, you have had your no changes with classic. Itd be a better game if it was improved upon. And i played during TBC

but we didnt get no changes with classic?

We werent even close to no changes lol. every single class was released in its 1.12 state, which breaks the entire balance of the game when the content was released in lets say patch 1.3 for example.

You had items available that you shouldn't have, and it wasnt just a few. A great example is healing gear, why does healing gear from MC etc suck so much compared to dungeon gear? Because there was NO healing gear in ANY dungeons previous to Dire Maul initially. so that Rosewine circlet you grabbed from LBRS that is better than almost any other ring except cauterizing band (which wasnt available on initial MC launch either if i remember correctly) literally didnt exist untill AQ gates were already open.

So how about we stop pretending that the "no changes" crow got their try and it sucked? cuz they didn't.

Personally i dont mind changes, I dont really trust blizzard with them though, look at Classic, Nice AV patch, Nice dungeon gear Nice debuff slots, Nice nerfed MC bosses (Rag was nerfed patch 1.9 I think it was, which is in cuz the game is released in the 1.12 version). Nice updated PVP gear stats making speed running about who can amass the largest amount of Rank 14 warriors.

So you can vouch for changes, thats fair, and i wouldn't fully disagree with you, but when u start lying through ur teeth either out of malevolence, or ignorance, you can sod off.

[Mosha]

but we didnt get no changes with classic?

We werent even close to no changes lol. every single class was released in its 1.12 state, which breaks the entire balance of the game when the content was released in lets say patch 1.3 for example.

You had items available that you shouldn't have, and it wasnt just a few. A great example is healing gear, why does healing gear from MC etc suck so much compared to dungeon gear? Because there was NO healing gear in ANY dungeons previous to Dire Maul initially. so that Rosewine circlet you grabbed from LBRS that is better than almost any other ring except cauterizing band (which wasnt available on initial MC launch either if i remember correctly) literally didnt exist untill AQ gates were already open.

So how about we stop pretending that the "no changes" crow got their try and it sucked? cuz they didn't.

Personally i dont mind changes, I dont really trust blizzard with them though, look at Classic, Nice AV patch, Nice dungeon gear Nice debuff slots, Nice nerfed MC bosses (Rag was nerfed patch 1.9 I think it was, which is in cuz the game is released in the 1.12 version). Nice updated PVP gear stats making speed running about who can amass the largest amount of Rank 14 warriors.

So you can vouch for changes, thats fair, and i wouldn't fully disagree with you, but when u start lying through ur teeth either out of malevolence, or ignorance, you can sod off.

Okay let me explain, ‘no changes’ doesn’t literally mean “make classic 1:1 perfect to vanilla”.

It means don’t add anything crazy that wasn’t in vanilla. The no changes crowd started saying this because people were asking for shit like transmog and lfr and dual spec etc etc.

By what the no changes crowds general consensus, classic was basically just that, no changes. Yeah we started on 1.12 and we had very minor stuf here and there. But we didn’t have stuff like lfr, transmog, class balancing to allow other classes to compete in raids.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Okay let me explain, ‘no changes’ doesn’t literally mean “make classic 1:1 perfect to vanilla”.

It means don’t add anything crazy that wasn’t in vanilla. The no changes crowd started saying this because people were asking for shit like transmog and lfr and dual spec etc etc.

By what the no changes crowds general consensus, classic was basically just that, no changes. Yeah we started on 1.12 and we had very minor stuf here and there. But we didn’t have stuff like lfr, transmog, class balancing to allow other classes to compete in raids.

Exactly. Like don't give horde paladins. Don't make ret spec like it was in TBC. Keep the spirit of the game the same. No changes went right out the fucking door when they changed the client. Most of the changes weren't bad. Only one I didnt like much was layering but I saw WHY it had to be done. Doesn't mean I loved it. But I understood.

Everyone was so crazy about it because it seemed like half the people wanted to change everything in the game. So it became absolutist when really it wasn't. They just didn't want to entertain 200000 small changes from everyone that made it a whole new game.

[Laughingjack]

Just roll horde. The community is to savvy to just pick the less effective faction. Though once every man for himself comes out alliance will surge in pvp players

[Playintrafic]

All they have to do is make every server work like a cup filling with water.

Once the capacity is reached, it overflows into the next server.

Would guarantee servers are 50/50.

LOL you have no idea what you are talking about do you...

It wouldn't matter unless you fix certain class and racial issues. Horde is just better. Horde Paladins are better, Horde Racials are Better.

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I've always wondered why they didn't try to force the servers to be a little more balanced.

But I don't see them implementing your suggestion.

Edit: to the poster below me...they could have made a few servers where you couldn't roll on the more-populated faction or something. I mean nobody would ever be happy all the time, but there's ways they could have encouraged it.

People, other than noobs, just wouldnt play on those servers.

[Joker of Muerte]

but we didnt get no changes with classic?

We werent even close to no changes lol. every single class was released in its 1.12 state, which breaks the entire balance of the game when the content was released in lets say patch 1.3 for example.

You had items available that you shouldn't have, and it wasnt just a few. A great example is healing gear, why does healing gear from MC etc suck so much compared to dungeon gear? Because there was NO healing gear in ANY dungeons previous to Dire Maul initially. so that Rosewine circlet you grabbed from LBRS that is better than almost any other ring except cauterizing band (which wasnt available on initial MC launch either if i remember correctly) literally didnt exist untill AQ gates were already open.

So how about we stop pretending that the "no changes" crow got their try and it sucked? cuz they didn't.

Personally i dont mind changes, I dont really trust blizzard with them though, look at Classic, Nice AV patch, Nice dungeon gear Nice debuff slots, Nice nerfed MC bosses (Rag was nerfed patch 1.9 I think it was, which is in cuz the game is released in the 1.12 version). Nice updated PVP gear stats making speed running about who can amass the largest amount of Rank 14 warriors.

So you can vouch for changes, thats fair, and i wouldn't fully disagree with you, but when u start lying through ur teeth either out of malevolence, or ignorance, you can sod off.

No ChAnGeS Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

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LOL you have no idea what you are talking about do you...

It wouldn't matter unless you fix certain class and racial issues. Horde is just better. Horde Paladins are better, Horde Racials are Better.

- - - Updated - - -



People, other than noobs, just wouldnt play on those servers.

To be fair there is Skeram , and i only know this secondhand from Asmongolds videos, its like 99% more or less Horde yeah? And one guild like decimated the last little guild .

[chrisnumbers]

All they have to do is make every server work like a cup filling with water.

Once the capacity is reached, it overflows into the next server.

Would guarantee servers are 50/50.

How do you expect friends and guilds to be together?

[Sardoc]

Not everyone has to have the addon as there are only a few thousand downloads of the specific addon, just more users gives a more accurate count. The addon itself gathers information based on who is online on the server.

Number of characters is not the same as number of accounts, how many players have 1 or more alts, total characters made are around 5.7 million, there is also not much to do in classic apart from make alts, maybe you were right and subs did double but retail only had 1 million players at that time.

I know it's not the same, I even mentioned it in the post. I said "characters" could include alts and the rest.

The point is, you said if I looked up "basic information", there would be no reason to believe 3-4 mln people play. Well, you never provided any of it, but I did. I even posted the sources I used, as well as listed all the limitations. Please don't give us this "with no data backing it up whatsoever" nonsense. It looks like it's entirely possible there are way more people playing than you think.

Also, the 3-4 mln numbers came from you, not from me. All I said was "Classic doubled the WoW subscription count". Well hey, Wowhead seems to back up these numbers, so... guess your initial guesstimate wasn't that far off?

[T-34]

Since the start of WOW Blizzard's stance on pvp-servers has been consistent and clear:

Everything goes on a pvp server. There are no rules. Blizzard will not intervene.

Blizzard explicitly tells people:

"If you do not wish to engage in regular PvP combat in WoW Classic, you must create your character on a Player versus Environment (PvE) realm. On a PvE realm, you can freely choose when you want to engage in open world PvP combat by enabling or disabling your PvP flag."

That is a polite way to tell people: If you can't handle a game without rules - that means an inherently unfair game - you should stop whining and play on a pve-server.

Blizzard has been consistent in ignoring whining from people who are unable to read and understand Blizzard's policy regarding pvp-servers.
Bizzard has been consistent in not changing their own rules that regulate pvp-servers.
Blizzard does apparently not consider faction imbalance a problem that is big enough to warrant a limitation in people's choice of faction and server.
Or with other words the costs outweigh the benefits.

Why on earth do you think that Blizzard will change their stance on said subject?

[Mazza]

Since the start of WOW Blizzard's stance on pvp-servers has been consistent and clear:

Everything goes on a pvp server. There are no rules. Blizzard will not intervene.

Blizzard explicitly tells people:

"If you do not wish to engage in regular PvP combat in WoW Classic, you must create your character on a Player versus Environment (PvE) realm. On a PvE realm, you can freely choose when you want to engage in open world PvP combat by enabling or disabling your PvP flag."

That is a polite way to tell people: If you can't handle a game without rules - that means an inherently unfair game - you should stop whining and play on a pve-server.

Blizzard has been consistent in ignoring whining from people who are unable to read and understand Blizzard's policy regarding pvp-servers.
Bizzard has been consistent in not changing their own rules that regulate pvp-servers.
Blizzard does apparently not consider faction imbalance a problem that is big enough to warrant a limitation in people's choice of faction and server.
Or with other words the costs outweigh the benefits.

Why on earth do you think that Blizzard will change their stance on said subject?

Classic is a "redo" of the game, making one aspect very different from the orginal: Knowledge. Blizzard knows what their stance lead to (a downward spiral of alliance population on alot of PvP servers that kept going into MoP) Even worse, the player base knows this as well wich will only accelerate the process. If a "no changes" TBC release is done every aspect of the faction unbalance will be amplified because there is years of experience on just how much these things affected the actual game.

Blizzard knows all this. Why on earth wouldn't they try and take measures to prevent it from happening?

[T-34]

Classic is a "redo" of the game, making one aspect very different from the orginal: Knowledge. Blizzard knows what their stance lead to (a downward spiral of alliance population on alot of PvP servers that kept going into MoP) Even worse, the player base knows this as well wich will only accelerate the process. If a "no changes" TBC release is done every aspect of the faction unbalance will be amplified because there is years of experience on just how much these things affected the actual game.

Blizzard knows all this. Why on earth wouldn't they try and take measures to prevent it from happening?

As I stated above Blizzard apparently consider the the cost, and by that I mean loss of customers, of enforcing limitations in player choice regarding server and faction to be higher than the benefit, retaining/gaining new customers
That is evident from what you mentioned yourself regarding the growing imbalance on pvp-servers during the the lifespan of wow.

And Blizzard solved this issue once and for all, not by enforcing player limitation regarding server and faction choice, but by making all servers pve-servers with an opt-in pvp-mode.

Whether Blizzard did choose that solution because of considerations of regaining customers and/or because Blizzard did not want to deal with all qq-tickets etc. is not important. What is important is what kind of solution Blizzard implemented.

So be carefull what you wish for. You might get what you want, but not in the way you want it.

I would assume it to be much more likely that Blizzard would make all servers in Vanilla Classic and TBC Classic to pve servers with opt-in pvp than Blizzard enforcing faction balance by limiting player choice.

[Mazza]

As I stated above Blizzard apparently consider the the cost, and by that I mean loss of customers, of enforcing limitations in player choice regarding server and faction to be higher than the benefit, retaining/gaining new customers
That is evident from what you mentioned yourself regarding the growing imbalance on pvp-servers during the the lifespan of wow.

And Blizzard solved this issue once and for all, not by enforcing player limitation regarding server and faction choice, but by making all servers pve-servers with an opt-in pvp-mode.

Whether Blizzard did choose that solution because of considerations of regaining customers and/or because Blizzard did not want to deal with all qq-tickets etc. is not important. What is important is what kind of solution Blizzard implemented.

So be carefull what you wish for. You might get what you want, but not in the way you want it.

I would assume it to be much more likely that Blizzard would make all servers in Vanilla Classic and TBC Classic to pve servers with opt-in pvp than Blizzard enforcing faction balance by limiting player choice.

Oh I am fully aware that IF they do something it will be what fits their situation and quite possibly not ours. I mean, the "you can disable PvP" option does not solve the problem of one faction still being significantly better, potentially still causing the other faction population to dwindle, but I can see them do something like just so you can at least play the game without getting ganked 1 vs 10 every 2 minutes.

My point is that trying absolutally nothing seems like a bad plan, given what both Blizzard and the player base have learned during both TBC and the expansions following it and the launch of classic

[T-34]

Oh I am fully aware that IF they do something it will be what fits their situation and quite possibly not ours. I mean, the "you can disable PvP" option does not solve the problem of one faction still being significantly better, potentially still causing the other faction population to dwindle, but I can see them do something like just so you can at least play the game without getting ganked 1 vs 10 every 2 minutes.

My point is that trying absolutally nothing seems like a bad plan, given what both Blizzard and the player base have learned during both TBC and the expansions following it and the launch of classic

You might be right, but on the other hand only Blizzard has data on what effect faction inbalance has had on people's descion to subcribe or not to subscribe.
I could postulate that the majority of the playerbase actually enjoys being on the majority side on an unbalanced server and the people who are unhappy with that situation is the loud minority.

Don't forget that in your situation - 10 gankers and 1 gankee, there are 10 happy customers and 1 potentally unhappy customer.
Maybe the majority gankerside doesn't have the same need to write on forums, becuse they are happy as clams.
So Blizzard might no see it as the worst solution or even a bad solution to do nothing about this issue.

[therealbowser]

Unfortunately, TBC is going to be insanely favorable towards Horde and very little can be done to solve this without dramatically changing what was in TBC originally.

I'd be okay with these changes, but I doubt most would be. However, I'd be okay with it being as it is. Sure, it will suck if you play Alliance, and Alliance will basically be dead, but... so it goes.

I seem to recall that the Alliance paladin seal was at least favorable for protection paladins over seal of blood... but this was over a decade ago. I might be remembering this wrong. Since most paladins will be retribution, though, it will be non-issue. Ultimately the game will be terribly balanced until WotLK, but at least TBC will be fun to play again.

There's no simple solution here, but I feel like Blizzard will be forced to do the "no changes" option. Expect this, and be ready to live with it for better or for worse.

[Magical Mudcrab]

it nowhere near doubled the subs, it boosted subs up a large amount but it nowhere near gained 3-4 millions subs just because of classic, but has lost most of those subs it gained in a few months.

Except Blizzard reported that WoW subs did double after Classic launch. Regarding those subs having been lost, I would like to see a source for this.