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  1. #161
    Quote Originally Posted by Synical123 View Post
    Other people*
    So you've always made the choice to play on the underpopulated faction and low pop servers to do your part to rectify the problem then right?

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Naraga View Post
    Not sure where people get this idea from.

    People don't want to be on the weak side themselves so they pick the stronger side compounding the issue. But they would really want 50-50.
    On a PvP realm, I'd much rather be on a side that's 80-20 instead of 50-50. Why would I not want to have an advantage in world PvP?

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Synical123 View Post
    More than half of your player base in qs? I’m sorry but do you understand what qs are? LOL. It would be more like 10% if that.

    If a server had a massive imbalance of 70/30 and you wanted to keep it slightly balanced at like 60/40 you would only need to put a little over 10 people in a q, not every single one of the horde. Jesus Christ

    And I’m not saying you do this to make the horde reroll, I’m saying you just put them into a q on really imbalanced servers so that the servers aren’t fuckin trash like 80/20 horde where no one wants to play alliance so they just xfer off and it makes dead servers.

    This literally JUST happened in classic dude. Horde did exactly what you are saying on stallag. Said the same shit you’re saying. All the alliance left. Now the server is a horde ghost town. It’s not just to make the game playable for alliance it’s to make the game playable period. If everyone on ally leaves, good luck opening up Sunwell
    Which means MORE THAN HALF of the player base would have to sit in qs at some points while other faction won't. Imagine not being able to login into a raid because your server is 70/30 and there is just a few alliance online. Not because servers are full. I would be pissed. Being penalised for playing the faction I want...

  4. #164
    Dreadlord Hashtronaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    That would be change too.

    Just a fucking stupid one.
    Why is that stupid?
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  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    That won't convince more people to roll Alliance, it'll just spread the Horde imbalance across more servers.
    Don’t need more people to go alliance if the servers are more balanced. If you want to play horde that bad then sit in a q.

    I play alliance, if I had to sit into a q to play when I knew horde didn’t, I would 100% roll horde. Not saying others will just saying I would

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akibaboy View Post
    So you've always made the choice to play on the underpopulated faction and low pop servers to do your part to rectify the problem then right?
    Actually, yeah for the most part that’s the type of servers I end up on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Which means MORE THAN HALF of the player base would have to sit in qs at some points while other faction won't. Imagine not being able to login into a raid because your server is 70/30 and there is just a few alliance online. Not because servers are full. I would be pissed. Being penalised for playing the faction I want...
    Yeah I can imagine it because it happens literally every single day with server qs. Except it’s every single person on that server. And they sit through it just fine.

    If you want to play horde that bad on a specific server you can sit in a q if it’s imbalanced. Your little wait time will literally ensure your server doesn’t die like what happened on stalag.

    You’re afraid of the booster shot because of the pain and you’re completely ignoring the disease it’s fixing in the process.

    Sort of like... a child

    Also just a side note, if you’re horde rolling on a server that’s 80/20 horde, you should in no way be ‘pissed’ if this happens. You are seeking an easy ride. If you want an easy ride play a pve server. If you’re one of those people who see no problem with rolling horde on a 80:20 or higher server then you need to just sit out of talks when it comes to server imbalance.

    You’re the cancer we are attempting to fix. And we shouldn’t listen to cancer on how to fix cancer
    Last edited by Synical123; 2020-04-04 at 10:01 PM.

  6. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    I think if anything, Retail proved Blizzard doesn't have the ability to fix the situation, because it's caused by player agency. We got War Mode, and with it, completely eliminate folks who don't want to PVP, but happened to be on PVP servers for whatever reason. So with only players wanting world PVP set to War Mode, and sharding tech allowing Blizzard to bring these folks together across realms, it didn't take long for the Alliance to see there are more Horde players interested in PVP than Alliance players, which caused the Alliance players to just stop flagging War Mode.

    I'm sure racials have something to do with it, but I suspect the main reason is that players who play games to fight other players are more attracted to the Horde, and players who play to play the map in a fantasy environment are more attracted to the Alliance. We see the same in Classic. Higher percentage of PVE server players roll Alliance than PVP server players, who are more likely to roll Horde.

    The only thing I could think Blizzard could do would be set War Mode factions to blue and red, and when you flag for War Mode, you alternate between blue team and red team, so racial faction is irreverent. Of course that completely breaks Orcs vs Humans, so it will never happen. That said, I don't see a way they could ever faction balance world PVP given their current constraints.

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    To me, this is a big take away. I believe back 15 years ago, Vanilla and TBC servers were quite a bit more balanced than servers today, so players tend to jump to "Blizzard did the thing which caused the imbalance, and now WPVP is dead". But from Classic we can see players are just more sophisticated today and are more quickly jumping to the faction imbalanced servers than they did in yesteryear.
    Too be honest people go for horde becouse of the racials, it is nothing new when Alliance racials has been best people went alliance.

    Alliance has the world pvp off simple due to They are in massive disadvantage in both numbers and powerlevel and that is just not fun.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Hashtronaut View Post
    Why is that stupid?
    Because instead of fixing the problem that causes unbalanced servers (op racials) it's a bandaid fix that only further benefits the already favored faction.

    Instead of a change like this, make a proper change. Balance racials.

    Give Alliance Every Man for Himself in TBC already (it came in Wrath), or remove Hardiness and WOTF.

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Because instead of fixing the problem that causes unbalanced servers (op racials) it's a bandaid fix that only further benefits the already favored faction.

    Instead of a change like this, make a proper change. Balance racials.

    Give Alliance Every Man for Himself in TBC already (it came in Wrath), or remove Hardiness and WOTF.
    I would be for this before merc mode. That’s a really dumb suggestion. That’s just asking for horde to have their cake and eat it too. So they can have no q times in bgs while also living their dream of 80/20 servers.

    I just don’t understand it. Before classic started I would tell people over and over again that this is not and will never be a good idea to swarm a server like this. It just makes the alliance leave and it kills your server. They all say “git gud” and then low and behold you get stalag.

    Then we come back to the same issue when discussing tbc and yet again here we are with horde players trying to swarm a server and justifying it with this stupidity as if we didn’t JUST see what happens when you do nothing about balance

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    It's also frankly an unfair comparison. You're comparing a super try hard community where every starts at level 1 to what will likely be the same kind of community as Classic now, and with a transfer option so you start at 60.

    Also frankly, #NoChanges if those changes are just "make it like a private server with double exp, a cash shop, and custom abilities" like this thread seems to like suggesting.

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    Heck if we're talking PvE BC made life better for basically everyone because tier sets are now attached to spec instead of classes. So it's no longer a "meme" to be a Prot Pally wearing Healing Gear.
    yeah prot pal gearing was better in TBC, but top raid Hpals still wore wore combos of mail, leather and cloth. WOTLK gear fixed all that. wasn't uncommon to see fury wars wearing some leather pieces too back then. agility was also key for them, WOTLK gear also fixed that.

    BM hunters depending on what they were doing, wore full cloth sets, with +healing power enchants for tank pet, blizzard nerfed that when it was discovered they were soloing 5 man heriocs. it was more of a valid gear set than the meme cloth rogue +spellpower set

    TBC was still a free gear era to explore and come up with new ideas, etc. WOTLK ganked all that
    Last edited by pinkz; 2020-04-05 at 04:56 AM.

  10. #170
    Did you just get done watching asmongold video or something? and decided that giving all paladins seal of blood was a good idea? Yeah hard pass. Only horde should get seal of blood. period.

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    Oh maybe we should give all priests, not just dwarves, fear ward in classic cause it'll cause faction inbalance there too?

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Because instead of fixing the problem that causes unbalanced servers (op racials) it's a bandaid fix that only further benefits the already favored faction.

    Instead of a change like this, make a proper change. Balance racials.
    And while they're at it, let's balance DPS so that every class does exactly the same damage. Maybe we can just make most classes resource spend/build. Maybe we can add a few new classes, like maybe Death Knights, Monks and Demon Hunters. And maybe they could add things to help make finding groups easier, too. They could call it something like Looking for Group. And even expand the idea to include raids. Oh, and everybody hates dailies so we should rename them. And then also give rewards for doing a certain number of them.

    Huh. I think you might have figured it out.

  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Ragedaug View Post
    To me, this is a big take away. I believe back 15 years ago, Vanilla and TBC servers were quite a bit more balanced than servers today, so players tend to jump to "Blizzard did the thing which caused the imbalance, and now WPVP is dead". But from Classic we can see players are just more sophisticated today and are more quickly jumping to the faction imbalanced servers than they did in yesteryear.
    My realm (Classic), Noggenfogger EU, was around 65% horde to 35% alliance ...and then blizzard opened free realm transfer because the realm was overpopulated. The result? All alliance who constantly were ganked and unable to farm or fight on fair grounds left, by the time Blizzard closed realm transfers we had a 80% horde to 20% alliance split ...which in reality is more like 95% horde in the open world because (we) the alliance hide in major cities. Before BGs were added it go so bad that horde made raids to IF just to get some pvp kills, it's gotten better since BGs were added... but it's still suicide to go in the open world without a full raid with you- and even then you're in high risk of losing all your world buffs before entering the raid.
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  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by Synical123 View Post
    You’re the cancer we are attempting to fix. And we shouldn’t listen to cancer on how to fix cancer
    Wow, thanks.
    Classic had no changes and I don't want any on TBC. That is it. Stalagg died because of how crap pvp system is in classic, not because of imbalance and that is not the only reason, half of the realms are like that because "they thought they do, but they didn't".
    Realms like Kazzak, Tarren Mill are top performing realms in retail, despite having no alliance on it, tho I get killed the most often, if I jump into kazzak grp. Ravencrest and Silvermoon are in top tier realms despite having no horde on it. You have bigger community and player pool if your server is one faction dominant, it will always be like that. The is not enough alliance playing the game on pvp realms, that is it. Despite having similar population alliance just decided to turn off their war mode for some reason despite of being unfairly rewarded for having it on. 3/10 top horde realms are PvE while 5/10 are PvE for alliance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundering View Post
    Too be honest people go for horde becouse of the racials, it is nothing new when Alliance racials has been best people went alliance.

    Alliance has the world pvp off simple due to They are in massive disadvantage in both numbers and powerlevel and that is just not fun.
    Top 10 alliance pop realms had 5/10 realms PvE before war mode while horde is 3/10 (EU data) So there is that. Player disbalance itself at the max level it is not very big, it's just that more players decided to turn it off because they were on PvE realm before creating a domino effect. Having bigger rewards for being in WM does not help either, alliance complains that they are forced into pvp because of 25% bonus while horde complains that alliance is unfairly rewarded.
    On the racials, I seriously still need to meet anyone in wow who changed faction because of the racial. I know plenty who changed race, but no one who changed factions. I would assume that would be players on top performing tier, so it would make sense that I have not met them. I have been in huge community casual guild with 5 raid groups in one guild for hc/mythic raiding and I have been in casual raiding guild which usually ended in top 500-800 bracket. The only faction change reasons were because people wanted to play blood elfs I think so they went horde at some point. I have seen someone going alliance, because of how SW is better than OG and crap like that. Wanna see more alliance? GIVE THEM WINGS! way more players care about looking cool rather than "shit, this is giving me 2.59% dps increase"

  14. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synical123 View Post
    Factions qs. Fixed
    If a realm has a capacity of about 3000 concurrent players and the realm is split 80-20 in favor of one faction the queues would be enormous. If 200 of Faction A (minority faction) is currently on then you only allow 200 of Faction B(majority faction) on and make everyone else in Faction B sit in queues for a realm that's mostly empty?

    That's nuts and a fine recipe to eventually have no one playing on PVP realms.
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  15. #175
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  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by baseballfan View Post
    Did you just get done watching asmongold video or something? and decided that giving all paladins seal of blood was a good idea? Yeah hard pass. Only horde should get seal of blood. period.

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    Oh maybe we should give all priests, not just dwarves, fear ward in classic cause it'll cause faction inbalance there too?
    No I have not, I haven't watched Asmongold at all. Maybe it's new for you but there are people out there that can form original thoughts without some "influencer" doing the thinking for them.

    And from your Priest example it's clear you don't understand the severity of the situation. Fear ward for Priests in classic are incomparable. It's not like Fear Ward is the difference between them being viable or not, and with that the difference between them being brought along the the raids or not and with that the difference in having access to the other utilities they bring.

    Meanwhile seal of blood is the difference between Classic lolret and being one of the more stronger dps classes in TBC.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nak88 View Post
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    Hope they won't make any changes to Shadowlands so you can be satisfied mr retail player.

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by pinkz View Post
    yeah prot pal gearing was better in TBC, but top raid Hpals still wore wore combos of mail, leather and cloth. WOTLK gear fixed all that. wasn't uncommon to see fury wars wearing some leather pieces too back then. agility was also key for them, WOTLK gear also fixed that.
    That wasn't Wotlk, that was Cata.
    Cata introduced Armor specializations, not Wotlk.

    And Pallies / Shaman becoming extreme crossdressers also became a bit more rare in TBC (barring a few items) because Blizzard got their itemization straight (alongside generally more useful tier sets).
    That's a thing in Vanilla because you have cloth / leather items that have Mp5 / Spell Crit, which were far less common in TBC, Spellcrit / Mp5 was mainly present on Mail and Plate items.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2020-04-05 at 12:14 PM.

  18. #178
    Dreadlord Hashtronaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Because instead of fixing the problem that causes unbalanced servers (op racials) it's a bandaid fix that only further benefits the already favored faction.

    Instead of a change like this, make a proper change. Balance racials.

    Give Alliance Every Man for Himself in TBC already (it came in Wrath), or remove Hardiness and WOTF.
    Well those changes seem more stupid because blizz is way more likely to fuck up a big change like that.

    There would be no way to approach the faction imbalance without a change, but what you’re proposing is more structural. A band aid fix is much safer, if everyone wants to be horde what’s wrong with that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by enigma77 View Post
    Because instead of fixing the problem that causes unbalanced servers (op racials) it's a bandaid fix that only further benefits the already favored faction.

    Instead of a change like this, make a proper change. Balance racials.

    Give Alliance Every Man for Himself in TBC already (it came in Wrath), or remove Hardiness and WOTF.
    Well those changes seem more stupid because blizz is way more likely to fuck up a big change like that.

    There would be no way to approach the faction imbalance without a change, but what you’re proposing is more structural. A band aid fix is much safer, if everyone wants to be horde what’s wrong with that?
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  19. #179
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    along side making it available to all paladins, regardless of faction, I'd like to see Seal of Blood be changed to where it prevents healing taken for a bit after judging with it, just to balance it out

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by erifwodahs View Post
    Wow, thanks.
    Classic had no changes and I don't want any on TBC. That is it. Stalagg died because of how crap pvp system is in classic, not because of imbalance and that is not the only reason, half of the realms are like that because "they thought they do, but they didn't"
    Thank you for posting this and proving people who back up imbalance and just complete fucking morons and should be ignored. Because if they didn’t believe it before this post will certainly convince them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    If a realm has a capacity of about 3000 concurrent players and the realm is split 80-20 in favor of one faction the queues would be enormous. If 200 of Faction A (minority faction) is currently on then you only allow 200 of Faction B(majority faction) on and make everyone else in Faction B sit in queues for a realm that's mostly empty?

    That's nuts and a fine recipe to eventually have no one playing on PVP realms.
    It would never get to that point if you had it on from the start. Also, nice crazy ridiculous scenario that will likely never happen.

    Here is that what we are doing? Just making up crazy scenarios? Ok let me try.

    “Guys if we don’t do anything with the imbalance literally every single person will go horde, there will be no more world pvp, no more bgs, no more sunwell”

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