Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ...
9
10
11
12
LastLast
  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    The only thing that's "mind boggling" here is that you think that Blizzard would unveil a system at BlizzCon, spend six months continuing to iterate on it, then once revealing it to the playerbase decide, "Nah, let's make it a fucking talent instead." This is the kind of backwards thinking you see employed by players who don't want Blizzard to ever try anything new, they just want the game to stay forever in exactly the state they preferred it most. (And for whatever reason, that seems to be MoP for most of the people on this forum.) It won't happen no matter how angry "rental powers" make you feel -- suggesting it should is just a waste of your time and everybody else's.
    Yeah, completely agree with you.
    They dont need to scrap it, they just need to make those abilities less covenant locked and faaar more in line with one another.
    Compare, for instance, DKs, then Warriors, then DKs, warriors and Rogues. You can clearly see quite big difference there, right?

    For instance, my idea was that we should get another talent row with unlockable talents as we cap covenant progression with 4th Covenant being class wide ability. Or simply get new "Covenant" ability on lvl 51, 54, 57 and 60.

    Picking and sticking a covenant would provide boost to talent/spell that you unlocked via covenant and further boosted via covenant talent tree, with minor passive boost to other expansion talents/spells.
    This way you would experience all zones and covenants, but also have a goal for your progression. It wouldnt be such a big pain to switch covenants but you will need to grind their progression as it is current plan. In addition, not having "optimal" covenant wouldn't hurt as much as it is in current iteration.

    When expansion ends you will still have the reason for new characters to go trough Shadowland's covenants to gain access to talent row.

    As for MoP - that was last good expansion that used old design model of item sets, powerful trinkets and daily quest grind. PvP vendors too.
    Last edited by Gurg; 2020-04-07 at 06:32 PM.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    It's called "level scaling" and it allows us to pick and choose our own leveling path instead of following a fixed path every single time. And this "we fought more powerful enemies" reasoning falls apart when you consider, for example, that before "level scaling" was a thing, the giant rock mobs you'd fight at the upper left corner of Hellfire Peninsula are less powerful than a simple blood elf in Netherstorm. At least by your reasoning. Because it's all a gameplay illusion. They're not "more powerful".
    Either I'm not understanding your point or you're not understanding mine. I agree with you that the giant rock mobs, which were in the intro zone, were less powerful than the blood elves in Netherstorm, which were in a later zone. That feels good to me. That's a good way to make us lose power at the start of an expansion - just make our enemies stronger by using levels at the same time as our secondary stats get weaker. The difference in levels means a level 119 is stronger than a level 111, it's just that the mobs he's fighting are also stronger too because their level is higher as well, AND the reduction in power from our secondary stats means it's a bigger challenge as we go on. That feels good. It feels like we're progressing on to bigger challenges and we need to step our game up.

    In contrast, in BFA the way it worked was you just got weaker and weaker as you leveled. The mobs didn't change. Fighting a mob at 111 was easier than fighting the same mob at 119. That feels shitty. I agree that it's all a gameplay illusion, but to me that's important. It's important to feel progress through difficulty and not just "ok you killed x mobs so I'm going to tune the knob up a bit". In BFA it felt like they were just weakening us and we had to fight to get back to where we were, not that we had progressed on to harder challenges.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I think that it should be changed so you basically progressively unlock all 4 covenants over time and that then gives you choices between which ones to use for different situations, because that would seem a lot better to me than locking you in to one. And for any Blizz devs reading this thread - you can make that just as grindy as the one covenant solution! I know you're all about the grind these days.

    And to the wet blankets, yes, yes, I know Blizz devs mostly aren't reading this forum, please keep your pants on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  3. #203
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    Either I'm not understanding your point or you're not understanding mine. I agree with you that the giant rock mobs, which were in the intro zone, were less powerful than the blood elves in Netherstorm, which were in a later zone. That feels good to me. That's a good way to make us lose power at the start of an expansion - just make our enemies stronger by using levels at the same time as our secondary stats get weaker. The difference in levels means a level 119 is stronger than a level 111, it's just that the mobs he's fighting are also stronger too because their level is higher as well, AND the reduction in power from our secondary stats means it's a bigger challenge as we go on. That feels good. It feels like we're progressing on to bigger challenges and we need to step our game up.
    I don't feel that way. Before level scaling, few things would bother me more during leveling than having to stop questing in a zone, and having to leave before even reaching half-way through its main arc because I've out-leveled the zone, and it no longer gave me worthwhile XP. For context: during this XP boost period, I level a character from 110 to 120... in Tiragarde Sound, alone. If it wasn't for level scaling, I'd have to hop through a fixed leveling path (let's assume TS -> Drust -> Stormsong), always stopping before even reaching half-way through its main arc before moving to the next zone.

    In contrast, in BFA the way it worked was you just got weaker and weaker as you leveled. The mobs didn't change. Fighting a mob at 111 was easier than fighting the same mob at 119. That feels shitty. I agree that it's all a gameplay illusion, but to me that's important. It's important to feel progress through difficulty and not just "ok you killed x mobs so I'm going to tune the knob up a bit". In BFA it felt like they were just weakening us and we had to fight to get back to where we were, not that we had progressed on to harder challenges.
    I'm curious: do you hold the same opinion regarding Legion?
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    They don't even have all the abilities fleshed out and we're supposedly 7-8 months from release? I'm glad there's some information to work with, but it definitely is alarming when they don't even have the abilities ready at the very least.
    7/8 months is shit load of time
    There is no Bad RNG just Bad LTP

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I don't feel that way. Before level scaling, few things would bother me more during leveling than having to stop questing in a zone, and having to leave before even reaching half-way through its main arc because I've out-leveled the zone, and it no longer gave me worthwhile XP. For context: during this XP boost period, I level a character from 110 to 120... in Tiragarde Sound, alone. If it wasn't for level scaling, I'd have to hop through a fixed leveling path (let's assume TS -> Drust -> Stormsong), always stopping before even reaching half-way through its main arc before moving to the next zone.


    I'm curious: do you hold the same opinion regarding Legion?
    I do agree that there should be some reason to finish a zone before going onto the next one, a few years ago I was talking about how swtor had a main objective you had to complete in order to unlock the next zone.

    And yes I did feel that way about Legion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Metallourlante View Post
    It's not supposed to be fun, we are not in 2009. It's supposed to be frustrating and keep you hooked longer.

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by monkaTOS View Post
    They listen to everyone they collect feedback and act on it - but their feedback loop is roughly about 2 years long (from x.0 release to x.0 release). It's the downside of very old style waterfall development, but given the legacy nature of their platform, I'd guess that's the best they can do.

    Lately (in BFA) they've been experimenting with shorter feedback loops by introducing a new system in each major patch (x.1, .x.2 etc) and then trying to make corrections in the next major patch - this is why we've had so many "rental" systems in BFA. Even in this case, they're not able to completely "phase out" a bad system mid-expac, so it only works partially.

    Whatever system you're going to see on Alpha now, is what will end in 9.0 release - even if everyone universally hates the idea. You can't reverse the waterfall. You need to get to the bottom (release) then climb back up and do the ride again.

    So right now, they're collecting two kinds of feedback, 1) "how to tune this existing system they've just released" and 2) "did people like it, should we do something similar in 10.0"
    Hmm. I mean, WoW is a big game, and these big systems take months to make/tweak. I don't *really* see how they could do much any differently, at least not without having to tack on more months until the next expansion each time they want to change something.

    For better and worse, they are on a timeline.

  7. #207
    The Unstoppable Force FelPlague's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Ontario,Canada
    Posts
    21,091
    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    Hey man, there's 2 extremist sides on this board. Those that defend blizzard regardless and those that shit on blizzard regardless. Don't group me up with people and I won't with you. I like WoW and just because I have some actual criticism/concern doesn't make me some WoW-bashing hater. I didn't remotely say anything about blizzard being lazy or shadowlands is the end of WoW. I merely said it's a little alarming. Get your bullshit slandering out of here, doesn't do shit for anyone.
    "This alpha is not a 100% complete version of the game, wow this is so alarming!"
    Surprise, the alpha is not the complete version of the game, not everything is going to be in it, welcome to the alpha/beta for literally every fucking game ever.
    content is not complete
    woooooooooooooow

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by crakerjack View Post
    They don't even have all the abilities fleshed out and we're supposedly 7-8 months from release? I'm glad there's some information to work with, but it definitely is alarming when they don't even have the abilities ready at the very least.
    7-8 months to set up a few abilities?
    Wow how long do you think it takes to come up with these ideas. an entire office of 100 people sit there for an entire day in silence before someone yells out "THE HUNT" then they all go home, and then the next day they say "IT DOES NATURE DAMAGE!" Then they go home, then come back the next day. "INCREASES FURY"

    so on so forth?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    Here we go again, boys.
    The dude is literally complaining that "The alpha is missing abilities" as if we will go 7-8 months and these abilities will still not exist
    grow up
    there is some credence to the "its only alpha, its only beta, its only patch X.0"
    but this is literally not even alpha yet, and people are crying "wtf there is missing content wow there is no way its gunna be ready!"

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by seamnstr View Post
    This doesn't look very fun. Every spell is like stacking three on use azerite neck traits into a single ability, albeit more class specific. Just messy imo and too decoupled from the core of the class/the regular spells. Wish they had something similar to the on use effects on legion legendarys instead, or just scratched the system entirely, and focused on making the core of the classes fun.
    "Decoupled from the regular classes, i wish they were sometign similiar to the effects on the legion legendaries"
    you mean like bonus fire damage.
    and this ability costs 1 less soulshard?
    yeah those were sooooo amazing...

  8. #208
    Scarab Lord crakerjack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Ptwn, Oregon
    Posts
    4,419
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    7/8 months is shit load of time
    7-8 is a decent amount of time assuming there's no setbacks. The issue is that everything in 2020 is pretty much setback due to the coronavirus. It's impossible to give precise input when you can't compare abilities. If you only have W and X abilities to compare, you can't provide valid feedback unless you have Y and Z abilities to compare it to. Sure you can compare W and X abilities a billion times, but all feedback changes when 2 new abilities are added to compare. Hell monks are still missing 3. There's time, I'll agree with that, but I'm worried Blizzard is behind the ball.

    At blizzcon they barely discussed covenant abilities. Hell they barely even discussed covenants. I'm excited for Shadowlands, but the pacing just feels off compared to prior expansions. We don't know if they're behind schedule or ahead, WE DON'T KNOW. So all we can do is speculate and if there's any correlations to be made between most businesses and their production/efficiency during this whole quarantine, it's that production/efficiency has taken a hit. Using what's tangible, correlations indicate that it's likely Blizzard will fall behind for as long as this whole covid-19 thing lasts. So if they were ahead of schedule, they're likely now on normal schedule and if they were behind schedule, they're now further behind schedule. You can argue blizzard was ahead of schedule prior to the whole covid-19 outbreak, but more than not, WoW expansions have been pushed back rather than moved ahead.

    I'm not saying WoW is dying or that this setback will be the final nail in the coffin, but I'm not going to exaggerate and pretend that 7-8 months is enough time.
    Most likely the wisest Enhancement Shaman.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrod View Post
    I do agree that there should be some reason to finish a zone before going onto the next one.
    Which is why level scaling is a good thing.

    Otherwise you'd be stuck in a zone that gives piss-poor experience just so you could unlock the next zone to level on.
    I did a Necromancer thing. Check it out! All feedback welcome!
    Update 08/17: I changed how the Bone spec's golem mechanic works, as well as some other minor changes.
    I also did a Bard thing! Questions, comments and ideas, all welcome!
    Update 09/02: Apparently the mods decided to merge my class concept thread with an existing one.

  10. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    Hmm. I mean, WoW is a big game, and these big systems take months to make/tweak. I don't *really* see how they could do much any differently, at least not without having to tack on more months until the next expansion each time they want to change something.

    For better and worse, they are on a timeline.
    2 year long feedback loops are pretty archaic in modern agile software development world that tends to run in two week sprints.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Lurker1 View Post
    Nice you think i care about those content.And your feelings is still not my problem.
    Yeah, I don't know what we're even talking about here if you don't do any of the actual content the game has to offer. You're immune from criticism on it if you don't do any of it - but the flip side to that is your opinion on any of it is absolutely worthless. It'd be like you giving your opinion on global warming as it impacts the Sahara desert. Completely unqualified to answer.

  12. #212
    I'm hoping when you 'Ally' with a covenant it'll work like other MMORPGs where they allow you to sever that alliance and retain that rank - but go to another covenant and build up reputation with them. And if you want to go back, you can - but obviously a CD between switches. They should also make Covenants account-bound or have highly accelerated catch-up on alts no matter which covenant you choose to side with.

    I know both of these go against the grain where Blizzard wants you to stick to one character and play as much as possible but I'm hoping it happens. We'll see.
    "Your name was stolen? I see... Well, I guess that happens from time to time..."


  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Wheeler View Post
    Yeah, I don't know what we're even talking about here if you don't do any of the actual content the game has to offer. You're immune from criticism on it if you don't do any of it - but the flip side to that is your opinion on any of it is absolutely worthless. It'd be like you giving your opinion on global warming as it impacts the Sahara desert. Completely unqualified to answer.
    Your moronic brain is not my problem sir keep reaching here as long as we all play the same game everybody matters u derp.Fyi this is not real life last time i checked it's a videogame.
    Last edited by Lurker1; 2020-04-08 at 05:21 AM.

  14. #214
    The Patient
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    London
    Posts
    294
    All i see is these being a total cluster fuck to balance in pvp.

    Melee are getting some fucking rediculous shit; extra grip for DK, a root for warriors along with an execute that ignores armour or movement increase buff. And this bullshit for Demon Hunters-Charge to an enemy, inflicting Nature damage and rooting them. The target is marked for a period of time, increasing your Fury from Demon's Bite and Shear against them.

    You may reactivate The Hunt every 30 seconds to teleport behind the marked target and ignoring line of sight. Are you fucking kidding me?????

    Honestly what the actual fuck are they thinking with these abilities???

  15. #215
    Legendary! Flurryfang's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Empire of Man
    Posts
    6,576
    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell7 View Post
    No need to worry? NO NEED TO WORRY because it looks the "same" like Legion and BfA?
    Hell yeah I'm worried they focus all their shit on completely irrelevant things, and the CORE GAMEPLAY will suck again.

    I don't want to play a game where 95% of my playtime is a snooze-fest (grinding AP, WQ, warfronts etc), and the rest fries my brain because there are 200 sources of RNG damage happening every second.
    Was merely refering to the blank abilities. That there are missing abilities is what not to worry about, as even good expansions had alphas with missing abilities/talents.

    But i do agree, that there are other things to worry about
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  16. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    The only thing that's "mind boggling" here is that you think that Blizzard would unveil a system at BlizzCon, spend six months continuing to iterate on it, then once revealing it to the playerbase decide, "Nah, let's make it a fucking talent instead." This is the kind of backwards thinking you see employed by players who don't want Blizzard to ever try anything new, they just want the game to stay forever in exactly the state they preferred it most. (And for whatever reason, that seems to be MoP for most of the people on this forum.) It won't happen no matter how angry "rental powers" make you feel -- suggesting it should is just a waste of your time and everybody else's.
    ... Just as Blizzard is wasting their time to continue down this path. The difference is that in the end for me it doesnt matter, I will simply not play the game, but WoW will not survive another bad expansion after BfA.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Gurg View Post
    Yeah, completely agree with you.
    They dont need to scrap it, they just need to make those abilities less covenant locked and faaar more in line with one another.
    Compare, for instance, DKs, then Warriors, then DKs, warriors and Rogues. You can clearly see quite big difference there, right?

    For instance, my idea was that we should get another talent row with unlockable talents as we cap covenant progression with 4th Covenant being class wide ability. Or simply get new "Covenant" ability on lvl 51, 54, 57 and 60.

    Picking and sticking a covenant would provide boost to talent/spell that you unlocked via covenant and further boosted via covenant talent tree, with minor passive boost to other expansion talents/spells.
    This way you would experience all zones and covenants, but also have a goal for your progression. It wouldnt be such a big pain to switch covenants but you will need to grind their progression as it is current plan. In addition, not having "optimal" covenant wouldn't hurt as much as it is in current iteration.

    When expansion ends you will still have the reason for new characters to go trough Shadowland's covenants to gain access to talent row.

    As for MoP - that was last good expansion that used old design model of item sets, powerful trinkets and daily quest grind. PvP vendors too.
    He just said that putting them as talents would be terrible.
    Then you say you agree with him. Then you say you would out them as talents.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    ... Just as Blizzard is wasting their time to continue down this path. The difference is that in the end for me it doesnt matter, I will simply not play the game, but WoW will not survive another bad expansion after BfA.
    Cool dude. Enjoy your super unique opinion that everything Blizzard does sucks.

  18. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    yeah it's not like the virus has actually affected their work. oh, wait, yes it has.
    Sure, but they'll use it as a full cop out excuse despite the fact that they were already way behind before it.

  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by judgementofantonidas View Post
    7/8 months is shit load of time
    Not when you take into consideration that Blizzard's feedback loop is a year to a year and a half long.

    That means we're already set in the way Shadowlands is going to release, and we might see some decent fixes by the second raid. By then, they've introduced a dozen other systems and have to consider those in their 'fixes' or it's going to be broken again. And since THOSE issues will ALSO require a year to a year and a half to get addressed...

    See why this is an issue yet?
    Last edited by Fleugen; 2020-04-12 at 11:22 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by smrund View Post
    I'm sorry sir, but we do not serve complimentary cheese when you bring your own whine.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •