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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Alvito View Post
    It is a valid concern since they did no testing of azerite gear in the last alpha/beta and took zero input on various systems.
    well and thats the thing, we didnt see azerite armor till almost end of beta, we have covenant abilities BEFORE release of alpha... so obviously, they want as much time to tweak it as possible rather than just slaping it in at the last moment hoping for the best...

  2. #82
    I mean I love people.

    "Why no new abilities ? So lazy Blizzard, we want new stuff"
    "Omg nothing is balanced why can't you understand that adding too many abilities makes it impossible to balance"

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Malic View Post
    Who the fuck asked for this kind of crap system????
    who the fuck asked for mythic+ system? and it turned out great and succesful...
    or should they know what system will be good and accepted before making it? then they shouldnt hire developers but seers and prophets

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by kamuimac View Post
    problem is that these non-competitive players blindly copy what cutting edge people do .

    and thats the problem
    The players who blindly copy are still in the 10% copying from the 1% who copy from sims.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Playing with suboptimal talents has always been a reason to remove underperforming people from groups. Covenant Ability will be no different.
    you are absolutely correct, it have ALWAYS been like that - yet some people treat it like some huge change to the game...

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Stickiler View Post
    lmao what, "why is this early, not-balance-tweaked version of the abilities so out of whack?" <- This is you.
    This is freakin EVERYONE who saw at least one alpha.
    We do not need "balanceable" abilities - we need the freedom of choice. If there is even a miniscule chance that "the best" players feel the need to level up multiple chars of the same CLASS just because Covenants are locked, then the system is BAD BAD BAD.

    Hell, why not make the Covenants RNG? You are assigned to one and be done with it. Maybe your 10th mage has finally the right Covenant yaaay!?

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Zephire View Post
    Indeed, it's the grind then? Not the gear in it self?

    I once had a meeting at work. We were talking about things to improve and I asked "Okay, so what if we had said system without these bad things, would that work?" and they answered like "No, because then the bad things would cause this and that". I replied: "Yeah, but I said that the bad things would not exsist". After some back and fourth they finally realized that yes, they wanted the same system but without the bad things. It was very difficult to get to that point.

    Also, I forgot about essences… Loved the challange some presented, hated the timegating. Like, why would I not be able to do hardmode Mecha as many times as I'd want during a week? It was fun, but instead of playing it more, I just waited. Quite boring. I mean, I'm paying and still I have to wait.
    Yeah, people are dense.
    It's the same reason why so many cool ideas that are proposed on this forum or by WoW YouTubers get shot down. Because people just hurry to tell them how bad they are and how many problems they will cause. They do not know that problems can be fixed.

    I disliked having to grind for any of the essences. I think that the ranks should have been achievement/difficulty based, not time/grind based. You complete Heroic EP? You get Rank 3 instantly. You complete Mythic EP? Rank 4 instantly. Respectively Rank 2 is Normal and Rank 1 is LFR (and you can skip them if you do a higher difficulty).

    And don't even get me started on the Rep and Honor grinds Those could've been done better. I liked the Crucible of Flame one because it involved story and because we already had to grind the Azerite anyway so that Essence came as a bonus.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    They are fine, if they can ONLY be used in world content. No raids, no dungeons, no battlegrounds.
    I agree with this completely. If they want it to be some little perk you get that you can use out while doing world quests or leveling that's perfectly fine and I see no issues with this.

    If it's something that's going to be available in M+, raids, and arena then they absolutely need to make it insanely easy to switch between covenants. What's best for M+ will almost certainly not be best in arena or raids and it's going to feel really fucking bad getting locked to a skill that's trash in one form of content but required for another.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell7 View Post
    This is freakin EVERYONE who saw at least one alpha.
    We do not need "balanceable" abilities - we need the freedom of choice. If there is even a miniscule chance that "the best" players feel the need to level up multiple chars of the same CLASS just because Covenants are locked, then the system is BAD BAD BAD.

    Hell, why not make the Covenants RNG? You are assigned to one and be done with it. Maybe your 10th mage has finally the right Covenant yaaay!?
    They already said you could change covenants, but it would take a bunch of time to do so. So no, you won't have to create multiple characters.
    Besides, i'm quite certain most people could have any ability and wouldn't be able to use it to their fullest. Just look at how many people beg for infinite stars when that trait is dogshit for almost every classes.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Flarelaine View Post
    Blizzard: *exists*

    People: OMG the sky is falling
    Exactly this.

    I read through the abilities and then opened the forum, knowing that at least one of the haters has already opened a thread like this one.

    You are sooo predictable. Blizzard could have written a page of AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA and you would have criticized them for the font, Blizzard could announced a gift of 1 million gold for everyone and you would complain that it is not 2 million and call them "greedy Actiblizzard" in the same paragraph.
    If you need a target for your hate try someone that actually deserves it for a change, stop playing this game if every little thing is suuuuch an inconvenience for you and then stop posting here, because it is getting soooooo old to see a hate thread every bloody day when any word come from a dev.

    \Rant

    As for the actual abilities. Let me start with one question: When in the history of the game was it every 100% balanced? Just look at the classes in the World First Race or the MDI.
    Look how Monks are the kings of Tanking raids and Warrior beats every other class in M+ Tanking, for a long time now.
    Look how Rogues destroy damage meters and BM hunters do more damage with their 3 buttons then an UH DK with 10.
    Look how Pala Healers do more damage then low end DPS without dropping healing.

    This is not an accident. It is simply impossible to perfectly balance 12 classes with several specs. The only way for perfect balance would be, if all classes have the same abilities, which no one in their right mind could want. The complexity of balancing hundreds of spells and spell combinations so that 12 class do exactly the same damage and healing is ludicrously high.

    People should stop looking at Balance as a deciding factor. Blizzard will keep things in check and move the sliders if one class gets completely out of hand, but expecting a completely balanced meta is simply unrealistic.

    And I am now telling you: So what?

    Apart from highest level Mythic raiding and +20 keys is the 5000dps you do more or less then the next guy really gonna matter? No. No it won't. Sure every class needs to reach a certain minimum of dps so they are viable for Heroics, but I have yet to see any competent player that invested the time into a class not reach this minimum. Every class is viable until you go for the really really difficult stuff and 95% of the playerbase will never reach that level anyway.

    The reason you should be playing your class is simply ENJOYMENT. You should love your class for it's cool concept, theme, backstory and animations not because you would do a bit more dps with it.

    And this is exactly what these Covenent abilities represent. They are not going to be 100% balanced. They are made to give you a flavourful cool experience. I looked at the DK abilities mainly as that is my main and I know now that I will be siding with the Necrolords (baring radical changes), their theme fits perfectly and their abilities sound quite simply FUN.

  11. #91
    For all the people , who claim blizzard wont balance it / wont change it anyway. What are you doing here? Just wanting to rage and cry? Looking for validation? Maybe make a chat group for such and let people discuss the new system in peace

  12. #92
    I like the idea of becoming a skeletal mage.

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by ArenaDk View Post
    For all the people , who claim blizzard wont balance it / wont change it anyway. What are you doing here? Just wanting to rage and cry? Looking for validation? Maybe make a chat group for such and let people discuss the new system in peace
    Maybe you should rethink what are you doing here if the only thing you are doing here now is bitching about what other people are doing here.

    Right now people doing the right thing - try to not let BFA testing shit to happen again. New system looks as bad of a system as were Azerite on alpha/beta. And people must make Blizzard hear it everywhere: on reddit, mmo-champion, 4chan, twitter, oficial forums.

    Its that simple. So stop bitching about it and go do your horrific vision. You would be fine with anything Blizzard would serve you anyway.
    Last edited by Harbour; 2020-04-07 at 09:46 AM.

  14. #94
    Lots of mouth breathing raging kids already

  15. #95
    To infinity and beyond det's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dungo View Post
    How do they intend to balance this? The abilities have such HUGE differences that will result in one being far better than the other three. Did Ion not see this coming?

    After the disaster of BfA class design, this has got me worried. Will Shadowlands also have massive issues with class design now?
    On the other hand we have ppl saying how cool Vanilla was, because everything was unbalanced and how today homogenisation killed the game. How we need classes and speccs to be more flavorful and unique. I hope these ppl are in this thread, defending the decisions.

    I pretty quickly stopped reading through all the abilities, because I thought...Jesus...here we go again with a mess and over abundance of stuff. Like..what is it? 4 covenants with different stuff for 12 classes and then some. Meh...I for one will be rolling a covenant for all my chars based on the armour they grant and story that I think works for that class.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    People said this about Azerite gear for months without any response from the devs.

    Expect these to be just as bad.
    Exactly, expect the game to go live and have "work in progress" on many abilities like it is in the list now ^^

    Quote Originally Posted by niztheundead87 View Post
    Lots of mouth breathing raging kids already
    How come you are surprised? Oh...you are here only for a year so far

    "Devs never listen to feedback"
    "Devs listen to the wrong people"
    "Devs listened to my feedback, but fuck...I hate it still"
    Last edited by det; 2020-04-07 at 10:03 AM.

  16. #96
    The Lightbringer Azerox's Avatar
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    Looks good to me.

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Pandragon View Post
    They are fine, if they can ONLY be used in world content. No raids, no dungeons, no battlegrounds.
    Whats the point wasting developers time on abilities what can be only use in world content what can be facerolled by basic 3 spell rotations? No people seems to forgeting that this is mmorpg not compettive raid simulator and if you force yourself into min maxing thats your choice. Blizz and game do not forces you to min max thats all on you. BUt I WonT bE InVaTED inTO GroupS. Then create your own group.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Harbour View Post
    Maybe you should rethink what are you doing here if the only thing you are doing here now is bitching about what other people are doing here.

    Right now people doing the right thing - try to not let BFA testing shit to happen again. New system looks as bad of a system as were Azerite on alpha/beta. And people must make Blizzard hear it everywhere: on reddit, mmo-champion, 4chan, twitter, oficial forums.

    Its that simple. So stop bitching about it and go do your horrific vision. You would be fine with anything Blizzard would serve you anyway.
    No. The right thing would be, waiting for aplha go live ——> Test abilities——-> give feedback——> see if they agree or disagree

    Not raging like children and being all negative about a game. Also azerit was looking really good as a system , just came far too late to the test server and got fixed quickly enough durring the expension. This time it seems they test them even earlier, so i would compare them more to the artefact abilities which were quite balanced.

    Also , again. stop with your passive agressive comments directed at me. If i would care about what you say, I would have asked for your opinion.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    As for the actual abilities. Let me start with one question: When in the history of the game was it every 100% balanced? Just look at the classes in the World First Race or the MDI.
    This is completely irrelevant and it just shows that you simply don't understand the issue. People aren't complaining about imbalances because imbalances have always been and will always be a part of the game. What people are pointing out is that Blizzard deliberately creates unnecessary imbalance by making it very hard to switch between these covenants just because they think it would make the choice more interesting. They are creating new problems that wouldn't exist if these abilities were e.g. another talent row that you can switch out whenever you want to.

    It's also a ridiculous and stupid choice to make. Do I choose what's actually useful for the performance of my class or do I choose what is most aesthetically pleasing/thematically fitting for my character? Why would you design a system in which hypothetically, players who care about their performance would be forced to join the nature themed Fae covenant or Paladins would be forced to join the Undeath themed covenant in order to be most effective?
    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    The reason you should be playing your class is simply ENJOYMENT. You should love your class for it's cool concept, theme, backstory and animations not because you would do a bit more dps with it.
    This is such a stupid non-argument if you've ever played any game competetively. Most people don't ENJOY shooting themselves in the foot performance wise because they want to look good which is why cosmetics are usually not tied to actual power increase.
    Quote Originally Posted by Raven View Post
    Crazy idea i know its important to be first to say something is bad, but maybe atleast wait until anybody actually tried it ingame.
    Damn, it's almost as if the problems with this systems weren't due to its implementation but are flaws at a conceptual level.
    Last edited by Nerovar; 2020-04-07 at 10:01 AM.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Elias01 View Post
    Whats the point wasting developers time on abilities what can be only use in world content what can be facerolled by basic 3 spell rotations? No people seems to forgeting that this is mmorpg not compettive raid simulator and if you force yourself into min maxing thats your choice. Blizz and game do not forces you to min max thats all on you. BUt I WonT bE InVaTED inTO GroupS. Then create your own group.
    Letting this wildly uncompetitive system to be active in competitive environments will make the game worse for everyone.

    You might not care about playing with subobtimal flavour spell, but your raid leader will. Have fun warming the bench.

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