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  1. #281
    it still amuses me when people think that they actually balance things. The last six years or so have shown that the majority of what they do balance wise is buff/nerf something 5 or 10%. Sometimes they throw a curveball and buff/nerf something 8%. And once in an eon, when they realize something is totally broken we get a 25% buff/nerf.
    People will give feedback during beta and point out things that are outright broken. And what is the result? At the end we get a blue post saying how they listened to great feedback and then release the expansion with a plethora of bugs that have been reported, sometimes for months.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Laughingjack View Post
    Picking fire spec gives me abilities and picking talents gives me a second... to quote a famous movie

    Oh so we've moved the goalpost from "Covenants are like one talent row" to "Covenants are like a spec" and you are going to think nobody is going to notice that absurd goalpost move?
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoli View Post
    I really don't understand why blizzard is so keen on implementing these kind of abilities that are bound to dictate how some players play the game and are bound to give these players the feel that they either have made a mistake picking a certain ability or worse; feel the need to have multiple alts of the same class to cover all bases should they be necessary.

    This might be the killer of this expansion for me. BFA had multiple layers of RNG in combination wtih gear being massively relevant in PvP again (+ the whole ambiguous PvP scaling bullshit) and this expansion has choices that will have permanent and relevant implications for the expansion's duration which you seemingly can't change other than re-rolling and gearing a new character of the same class.
    I mean, unless an ability of piece of gear shares the exact same stats/modifiers as another, one thing will *always* be better than another thing. So unless you want all abilities to do the same dmg/healing/modifier but the animation be different... you'll always have this.

    Any gear-based and therefor stat-based game will always have "this is better than that" decisions.

  4. #284
    who else is excited for TBC classic servers!??!

  5. #285

    Red face

    I really want to live in the same dream land where having a system that allows you to swap abilities situationally provides less customization than a system in which every semi-serious DH will choose the same covenant for PvP because of a single ability.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    I really want to live in the same dream land where having a system that allows you to swap abilities situationally provides less customization than a system in which every semi-serious DH will choose the same covenant for PvP because of a single ability.
    Your mistake is assuming that your neurotic, condescending, OCD attitude toward the game is the attitude of most players.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Zequill View Post
    24h after the announce a new feature, a forum post titled "X look BAD", classic mmo-champion
    because you don't need 400IQ to see that this will be another blunder like azerite gear

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Why does this fallacious nonsense get repeated so often? Of course there will never be perfect balance among between classes/specs etc. but that is merely an observation and not a prescription for abandoning the principle of trying to balance the game as best as possible. So just because classes aren't perfectly balanced doesn't mean we should add more systems on top of that which create further imbalence.
    You are, again, missing the point. What people are trying to tell you is that Balance does not matter as much as fun and cool things to play with. Thus adding new abilities that sound really fun is a good thing, even if they are not balanced.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    What are you basing this on? I haven't seen any numbers so far and the spells that were presented are mechnically very different. Some classes already have obvious BiS options for certain content (such as Necrolords for DKs in PvP). The fact that you're not acknowledging this shows that you're either being wilfully ignorant to make a point or lack the understanding of the game to realize how this will impact gameplay. This is not "dramatizing" by any stretch of the imagination no matter how much you want to spin it.
    The fact that you see this: "Abomination Limb (Necrolord) - Sprout an additional limb for a limited time, dealing Shadow damage to nearby enemies. If an enemy is farther away from you, they are pulled to your location.", and immediately take it for a fact that this is the best PvP ability is a very good example for the dramatizing I was refering to.
    There is no information about how far the pull reaches, how long it stays active, what the CD is, how much damage it does or IF IT EVEN WORKS against players and you assume it is a fact that all DKs will use this for PvP, because it gives "incredible Utility".
    The fact that you think that everyone has to immediately jump to this conclusion from one line of completely open text from the first Alpha build with no further information shows that YOU lack understanding of how the game works. For example, DKs already CAN have a second charge of the pull in PvP and that is hardly the thing that was responsible for their nerf lately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Again, I'm basing this on Blizzard's statement about wanting to make it punishing for players who switch their covenants which is something I disagree with in principle. Speculating about how Blizzard might or might not have changed their stance on the issue is irrelevant since they haven't chosen to reveal that information yet. It's funny how I'm the one who simply argues based on what Blizzard has presented whereas you're making points based on what they haven't revealed yet while inferring malintent on my side.
    Your comment about the DK ability shows that you are quite capable of just assuming things so they fit your view of evil Blizzard gunning for you, but regardless. I choose to think that Blizzard is inherently on our side, you constantly assume they want to punish you and demand that everything in the game bends to your whim. You don't want interesting game play, better to have balanced passives that don't do anything instead of actually offering choices that might inconvenience you slightly, hmm?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Well, if you look at PvP these thing start to matter fairly quickly and not just if you're aiming for R1. If you have a spell like the Necrolord DK covenant ability that provides you with incredible PvP utility and you're playing against a DK who doesn't have that then this will have a very noticeable impact on your chances of winning. It's that simple.
    Yes, well, if you have such great understanding of the game you should know by now that PvP is a side gig. The game is not balanced around it and design decisions are not made based on it. Not should they. If enough PvPers cry then the abilities will simply not work in BGs anymore (just like the Corruption procs already do) and you have your wish that only the classes inherent imbalance will affect the game. Then you can enjoy the same gameplay of BFA.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    Feel free to tell my how class inbalance is an argument for creating more imbalance and I'll row back on that.
    The point was that Balance should not matter as much as it does, because what we need is not more Balance, but more FUN gameplay.

  9. #289
    I dont think is problematic having people picking a Covenant just for the abilities (or for the transmogs)

    What i think is problematic is the people who pick the ability...will get f'ed if Blizzard nerfs it.

    Oh and i already can see the random forum poster telling me "is your fault for picking the ability....noob"
    Its going to be a crapshow because of the nerfs.

  10. #290
    Not even gonna read through the thread but I already know the 2 falacies that have been used ad nauseum:

    1.) "It's too early to tell! Stop complaining so early!"
    2.) "This only affects Mythic raiders! Nobody else ever cares about performance!"

  11. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raisei View Post
    The point was that Balance should not matter as much as it does, because what we need is not more Balance, but more FUN gameplay.
    Balance is part of fun. There is no fun when your class underperforms and you have no spot in PvE and no chance in PvP.

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by Clickbait Mick View Post
    Not even gonna read through the thread but I already know the 2 falacies that have been used ad nauseum:

    1.) "It's too early to tell! Stop complaining so early!"
    2.) "This only affects Mythic raiders! Nobody else ever cares about performance!"
    The system is a failure by the simple fact "everyone who decided to pick a covenant for the ability will get f'ed if Blizzard nerfs/balances it"

    Literally everyone on planet earth who picked for the ability....will be f'ed eventually.

  13. #293
    Wouldn`t this only be a problem if these new covenant abilities are useable in raids/dungeons?

    I could be wrong but i haven`t found any information that states where
    and where they cannot be used.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    Because in an RPG I want my character to be meaningfully distinct from other characters.
    don't play an mmo
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    People said this about Azerite gear for months without any response from the devs.

    Expect these to be just as bad.
    Exactly.

    Unfortunately, the majority of the playerbase are LFR heroes and WQ experts, so their standards are extremely low and these issues won't happen.

    Boy oh boy here we go again.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Clickbait Mick View Post
    Not even gonna read through the thread but I already know the 2 falacies that have been used ad nauseum:

    1.) "It's too early to tell! Stop complaining so early!"
    2.) "This only affects Mythic raiders! Nobody else ever cares about performance!"
    The argument isnt that nobody cares about performance. The argument is that this insane level of prioritizing performance is a choice you make, and a lot of us are tired of the game having everything fun removed from it to cater to a group of never-happy people that want to have their cake and eat it too: They want to prioritize performance over all else and want that to have no impact on the game for them.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Nerovar View Post
    I really want to live in the same dream land where having a system that allows you to swap abilities situationally provides less customization than a system in which every semi-serious DH will choose the same covenant for PvP because of a single ability.
    Situational swapping isn't customization, it's a chore you do before those situations.

    Imagine gems had +Aoe damage, or +single target damage. In your version (you can pull the gems out of your gear and put in others, changing them situationally) there is no customization. You simply switch over to AoE gems before AoE and you stop and switch over to ST gems before ST, because you are free to use the most appropriate tool for any given situation.

    In a situation where gems lock into armor and require a large amount of effort to remove so that other gems can be put in, you instead have to customize your character to be slightly better at AoE or slightly better at single target. There is an actual meaningful choice that creates differences between individual players instead of everyone putting on their AoE gems to be slightly better at AoE and then their ST gems to be slightly better at ST.

  18. #298
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    don't play an mmo
    Most MMOs have meaningful character customization.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lahis View Post
    Balance is part of fun. There is no fun when your class underperforms and you have no spot in PvE and no chance in PvP.
    That doesn't happen. There is never a situation where you are disallowed from playing any PvE or you die in EVERY PvP fight. That's not the real world.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    The argument isnt that nobody cares about performance. The argument is that this insane level of prioritizing performance is a choice you make, and a lot of us are tired of the game having everything fun removed from it to cater to a group of never-happy people that want to have their cake and eat it too: They want to prioritize performance over all else and want that to have no impact on the game for them.
    But we cant simply say if person X picked a covenant for the ability he is stupid.
    Some people prefer gameplay to roleplay...a lot of people.
    What is wrong with that?

    My only problem with this is that I KNOW my ability will get changed...im 10000% sure.
    And what then?

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    The argument isnt that nobody cares about performance. The argument is that this insane level of prioritizing performance is a choice you make, and a lot of us are tired of the game having everything fun removed from it to cater to a group of never-happy people that want to have their cake and eat it too: They want to prioritize performance over all else and want that to have no impact on the game for them.
    "This insane level of prioritizing performance" - What the fuck does this even mean?

    The rest of your post is just hyperbolic opinionated nonsense where you make up an imaginary group of grumpy hardcore people that are ruining your experience. I can't take these posts seriously.

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