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  1. #661
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    1.Goldstrats that involve farming old materials are far less valueable (for obvious reasons)
    2.Strats that primarily focus on selling greys / raw gold either are in the open world (=Competition) or are in Instances, if you're hitting the lockout cap in Classic, you're not going to make more gold in TBC.

    Doesn't matter if you can now do a Lasher farm within 3 minutes instead of 10, 5 dungeons per hour are 5 dungeons per hour.

    There is a difference between things being "as they were" and things being affordable for people that haven't hoarded tens of thousands of gold.

    This is basically 1x1 on Inflation, it's not really harmful over a long period, but damn harmful if it happens within a short amount of time.
    ... so, you'd delay the point where things get expensive, while pissing off lots of players.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    No, you're just delaying the drama.
    The bomb will drop for a lot of people once they are 70, haven't done any "gold preperation", go the AH and realize that they can afford absolutely nothing, at this point they either have to get by without the auction house or farm gold via the auction house.
    I love hyperboles.

  2. #662
    Quote Originally Posted by Sardoc View Post
    ... so, you'd delay the point where things get expensive, while pissing off lots of players.



    I love hyperboles.
    The alternative being, doing nothing, pissing off the MAJORITY of players who now can't buy a single thing on the AH and making dailies a complete waste of time for everyone.

    Yes, yes, I would want this. Those players who will get 'pissed off' will still play and they will still be able to play the game in a way that's more intended.

    And there is no reason to be pissed off. Blizzard isn't taking shit away from you, you will still have your gold in classic, so go spend it there if you really want to.

  3. #663
    Nope, I don't want to level other characters from 1, a copy option would be the perfect and reasonable option.

  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    Even if it was abstract your timeline was still retardedly small assuming that would happen so there is no need to even attempt to argue with you if you believe or even use such nonsense lines in a discussion. Also, I never said I do know there wasn't some spot, but from what I know about tbc there is nothing similar to this like there is in vanilla. I leave open the possibility for sure because i don't know if something hidden is there we aren't sure about, but regardless this doesn't HELP you argument at all.
    ... so, you did take it literally.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    Showing ignorance to what I just said, great job. I am not after the individual with this amount of money, I'm after the problems that rise up when the average gold per person is literally doubled.
    Yes, you are after them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    Then you are ignorant to how the economy works, plain and simple nothing more to add. Wiping the economy sets everyone at an equal level. If everyone on average has lets say 1.5k gold without a wipe, then they are much more willing and WILL pay hundreds of gold per mats. If people walk in with nothing, or little to nothing, those mats will not sell for hundreds because no one will have that money to pay for them, they will sell lower. This is EXTREMELY simple. If you can't understand that then you once again prove you aren't worth anyone's time here.
    Are you by any chance a marxist? They also think they can save the world if they just get rid of the rich.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    Yes, you are literally fixing the problems I brought up with a wipe. Just because you say "You didn't fix any problems" doesn't make it so. I literally explained to you with examples and CLEAR logic how this would be true. And all you have to say is "I CAN'T FOR THE LIFE OF ME UNDERSTAND HOW YOU THINK THAT". I'm sorry but it seems you just aren't that bright of a person if you can't see it bud. Sorry.
    No, you don't fix any problems whatsoever, you just get from point A to point B later and piss off a lot of people in the process, especially the casuals. Using caps lock doesn't change that.

  5. #665
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    Lets ask a question: What about players who have NOT played classic Vanilla and would like to play TBC? How would/should they do so? At level 1? Or a template level 58?

    If they are forced to start a level 1 toon on TBC servers,how likely are they to actually sub/stay subed?

    When we think of it in this way it becomes clearer of the advantages of simply having everyone start with a fresh 58 template.

    I realize some are going to suggest any toon +58 can be allowed to be copied, but that would make it progression and be just like live servers. I don't think Blizzard is about to run a shadow version of retail that progresses like retail!
    See, that is the problem i keep facing when i think about TBC and talk it with people, who are not currently playing WoW.

    Everybody loves TBC, but not many likes the idea of playing Classic Vanilla. So right now, i know loads of people, who hate the idea, that they will have to play Classic for 1½ month to start on equal grounds when TBC starts. Its a huge barrier.

    If everybody playing Classic can copy a lvl 60 character to TBC server, we are just gonna see a huge divide in the people who start at launch and the people who have played Classic for a year. Some might say "Well, then things will just be like back in the day, what is wrong with that?". What is wrong with that, is that people are much more hardcore now than back then, especially when it comes to people who are currently stick with Classic. I fear, that the time it will take for new people to get from lvl 1 to 70, the Vanilla people will have already rushed past the initial stages of the expansion and created a gap between the two kinds of playerbases.

    So in the end, what would really change if people could start at lvl 58, if Vanilla people start at lvl 60? The idea of the "Classic" expansions/original Vanilla, is for people to experience a specific expansion. Its not about rebuilding WoW, its about creating snapshots of WoW in a specific time with a specific game design.
    May the lore be great and the stories interesting. A game without a story, is a game without a soul. Value the lore and it will reward you with fun!

    Don't let yourself be satisfied with what you expect and what you seem as obvious. Ask for something good, surprising and better. Your own standards ends up being other peoples standard.

  6. #666
    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    The alternative being, doing nothing, pissing off the MAJORITY of players who now can't buy a single thing on the AH and making dailies a complete waste of time for everyone.

    Yes, yes, I would want this. Those players who will get 'pissed off' will still play and they will still be able to play the game in a way that's more intended.

    And there is no reason to be pissed off. Blizzard isn't taking shit away from you, you will still have your gold in classic, so go spend it there if you really want to.
    You know, for someone who said I'm not worth anyone's time here, you seem to reply to my stuff an awful lot. Funny that.

    I don't know what alternate universe you live in where the majority can't afford anything, but I'm glad it works out for you.

  7. #667
    Quote Originally Posted by Sardoc View Post
    ... so, you'd delay the point where things get expensive, while pissing off lots of players.
    Inflation is pretty standard and fine, as long as it doesn't happen within a short timeframe.

    It matters less because everyone accumulates more gold over a longer period of time.

    Stop thinking simply because Inflation occurs it will always have the same consequences, it is fine if it occurs over a long period.
    It has bad consequences if it occurs within a short timeframe, which will happen because people will generate millions of gold out of nothing on a fresh server, which will then dumped into the economy, because everybody and their mother wants the craftable items.

    Which then results in people that have no gold or primarily relied on fixed income (such as gold rewards from quests or selling greys) will struggle to afford anything because gold has barely any value to begin with.

    It's like putting cold hands under water, totally fine if the water starts off cold and you then slowly turn up the heat, kinda bad if you put cold hands straight under hot water.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sardoc View Post
    I love hyperboles.
    Then what do you think will happen once the people with Millions of gold start spending all their money, while the fresh 70 with 800g shows up on the AH?

  8. #668
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    TBC servers if they happen should not be tied to Classic. Start fresh with a pre-made that has some options and head out from there to level.

    There's some irony in the expressed love for TBC and how it was not so long ago that people forever complained about having to level through the TBC zones and never wanted to ever do it again.
    “We live in a moment where everything immediately seems to default to outrage. There’s a kind of M.O. of either it’s exactly how I see it, or you’re my enemy.”

  9. #669
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    No, this is a stupid idea.

  10. #670
    Quote Originally Posted by Sardoc View Post
    You know, for someone who said I'm not worth anyone's time here, you seem to reply to my stuff an awful lot. Funny that.

    I don't know what alternate universe you live in where the majority can't afford anything, but I'm glad it works out for you.
    Not surprised I said that to you in the past, your opinions must have bought a permanent void in my memory where I don't even recognize your name anymore.

  11. #671
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Inflation is pretty standard and fine, as long as it doesn't happen within a short timeframe.

    It matters less because everyone accumulates more gold over a longer period of time.

    Stop thinking simply because Inflation occurs it will always have the same consequences, it is fine if it occurs over a long period.
    It has bad consequences if it occurs within a short timeframe, which will happen because people will generate millions of gold out of nothing on a fresh server, which will then dumped into the economy, because everybody and their mother wants the craftable items.

    Which then results in people that have no gold or primarily relied on fixed income (such as gold rewards from quests or selling greys) will struggle to afford anything because gold has barely any value to begin with.

    It's like putting cold hands under water, totally fine if the water starts off cold and you then slowly turn up the heat, kinda bad if you put cold hands straight under hot water.

    Then what do you think will happen once the people with Millions of gold start spending all their money, while the fresh 70 with 800g shows up on the AH?
    I wasn't talking about inflation. I was talking about gold strats. I'm pretty much 100% sure someone will find a ridiculous strat that will make people farm gold like mad, so it doesn't really matter whether you wipe people's progress or not, because you'll get to point B anyway. All while pissing off other players, mostly casuals or people with families, who don't give a rat's patootie about existing rich people, and just want to continue with their Classic chars in TBC.

    I don't care about what the rich do with their money. They'd probably blow a lot of it on epic flying mounts, probably some blues or world epics, none of which is of any concern to me.

    You don't seriously think people wouldn't be able to afford stuff like Netherweave Cloth, Arcane Dust, etc., do you. Continuing on your existing chars happens every expansion, and somehow nothing has exploded all this time. Strange, eh.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    Not surprised I said that to you in the past, your opinions must have bought a permanent void in my memory where I don't even recognize your name anymore.
    Of course you do recognise my name. Come on, the notifications about you quoting my posts pop up within like 10 mins of me posting. Looks like this is literally the highlight of your day.

  12. #672
    Quote Originally Posted by Sardoc View Post
    I'm pretty much 100% sure someone will find a ridiculous strat that will make people farm gold like mad, so it doesn't really matter whether you wipe people's progress or not, because you'll get to point B anyway.
    Doubt it, Blizzard already did fix a lot of goldfarming strats in TBC and the overall design makes it far more difficult.

    You don't have some dungeon like DM:E in TBC, where you can gather 6+ herb nodes and 2-3 Rich Thorium veins within 15 minutes by yourself.
    Not to mention that the valueable reagents for equipable items (=Not Herbs / Ore) cannot be farmed properly in dungeons, unlike Arcane crystals.

    The overall dungeon layout makes it very difficult to skip trash for non stealth classes (such as Mage).

    Leaving aside that you'd still be removing most of the gold coming from Classic.
    So even if they can generate lots of gold, it's still a world of difference compared when people will be able to take Millions of gold with them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sardoc View Post
    I don't care about what the rich do with their money. They'd probably blow a lot of it on epic flying mounts, probably some blues or world epics, none of which is of any concern to me.
    Sentences like these show your lack of understanding on the subject.

    5k Gold are nothing in Classic right now, Mages farm that kind of gold within 10 hours with ZG boosting.
    Thinking that epic flying will drain the pockets of the actual rich people is laughable.

    Any person who has done a modicum of research on TBC knows that you should be spending your gold on craftable items (because some are superior to T4 and at very least equal to T5), mats for those are limited based on the server because those mats are primarily farmed in the open world.

    And that shit will be absolutely unaffordable for those people without gold, while still causing a massive inflation because you have now hundreds of people that suddenly dump a ridiculous amount of gold into the economy, thus dragging any price along with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sardoc View Post
    Continuing on your existing chars happens every expansion, and somehow nothing has exploded all this time. Strange, eh.
    I'm pretty much repeating myself here for the X time, because none of the arguments you presented are somehow new.

    First off, a re release is always different than a new release, people know what's good and what's bad, what will be needed in the future and what won't.
    Classic is the prime example, people have been hoarding certain mats since release because they know it will be valueable in future, that knowledge did not exist back in 2005, because people had yet to find out what's actually good.
    (Mind you, some people posting in this thread said that they already have the mats at the ready to get JC from 1 to 300 right off the bat)

    Same goes for TBC, people didn't know at release that certain items that you can get from Day one will last you into the penultimate Raid of the Expansion, now people know that.

    Information is being handled differently in 2020 than in 2007, that is a fact.

    Second, ever since Wotlk, the economy has lost relevance, i've said in another post:
    This issue is exclusive to TBC because of how powerful these craftable items are, Wotlk craftable items aren't as powerful, nor of any following expansion.
    These Items place a heavy pressure onto the economy, therefore it should be in a state where not just people who have made a fortune in Classic will be able to access it.

    I couldn't care less whether they make a gold reset from TBC to Wotlk, because the economy isn't much a factor for progressing your character anymore, but in TBC, it absolutely is.

    In those expansions, people simply have less reasons to dump that much gold into the economy.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2020-05-29 at 04:39 PM.

  13. #673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sardoc View Post
    Two weeks was an abstract period; I don't know why you took it so literally. But even if it was literal two weeks. How do you know players won't find a ridiculous goldmine, or even just carry on aoe farming the old world? Yea, exactly. You don't. You're being very bitter for no reason.

    I'm not gonna cry myself to sleep about someone having 50k or 100k gold, nor do I care enough to try to prevent or police it. It's their free time, it's nobody's business what they do with it.

    About the economy. I bet the prices of Fel Lotus, Nightmare Vine, Eternium, Khorium, possibly motes and primals will be much higher than "back in the days". I can't for the life of me figure out why you think wiping people's progress will change that. It might take a bit longer to get to that point, but you're not preventing it. Welcome to any competitive multiplayer environment, ever.

    You don't have to respond if you don't want to, that's fine. But don't forget you're not fixing any of the things you mentioned by wiping people's progress. You just end up pissing off existing players in the process. Why not skip being a micromanaging yenta and just let people carry on on their existing Classic chars. It's less drama that way.
    Exactly. People seem to think that wiping all progress will magically fix all the things people have been taking advantage of in Classic, which obviously isn't the case. If anything, it will alienate people further, as players that are good at that type of stuff will get another headstart compared to the average player. Most people are catching up with gold and currency issues nowadays on Classic 8-9 months on, can you imagine what would happen if they wiped everything they've took months to gather?

    I think wiping everything is detrimental in too many ways to be considered an option, as average players will not want to start again from scratch, and players that have built up their account and have a lot of inventory/gold will think the same. The only players that are benefiting are completely new players, and really it's not much of a deal for them to start playing Classic ~2 months or so before TBC releases just to get a few hundred gold and a level 60 ready to play their preferred TBC content when it releases.

  14. #674
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Exactly. People seem to think that wiping all progress will magically fix all the things people have been taking advantage of in Classic, which obviously isn't the case. If anything, it will alienate people further, as players that are good at that type of stuff will get another headstart compared to the average player. Most people are catching up with gold and currency issues nowadays on Classic 8-9 months on, can you imagine what would happen if they wiped everything they've took months to gather?

    I think wiping everything is detrimental in too many ways to be considered an option, as average players will not want to start again from scratch, and players that have built up their account and have a lot of inventory/gold will think the same. The only players that are benefiting are completely new players, and really it's not much of a deal for them to start playing Classic ~2 months or so before TBC releases just to get a few hundred gold and a level 60 ready to play their preferred TBC content when it releases.
    Just going to throw this out here now, there are people who play classic RIGHT NOW who have not stopped playing and they still have problems affording things like flasks because of how high the inflation is right now. The average player and the new player and the hardcore player all benefit from this. If the inflation is fucked from the start, then this problem is really going to be apparent when the average person can't afford anything on the AH because people know these things will be going for thousands of gold. If you do a wipe, it will make things WAY WAY WAY more affordable for everyone, and it will allow the average person to just go and do their dailies in order to go buy some stuff on the AH. If dailies only give you 10g each and the items you need and pushed into the thousands, then dailies instantly become obsolete.

  15. #675
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    Just going to throw this out here now, there are people who play classic RIGHT NOW who have not stopped playing and they still have problems affording things like flasks because of how high the inflation is right now. The average player and the new player and the hardcore player all benefit from this. If the inflation is fucked from the start, then this problem is really going to be apparent when the average person can't afford anything on the AH because people know these things will be going for thousands of gold. If you do a wipe, it will make things WAY WAY WAY more affordable for everyone, and it will allow the average person to just go and do their dailies in order to go buy some stuff on the AH. If dailies only give you 10g each and the items you need and pushed into the thousands, then dailies instantly become obsolete.
    Inflation is not the only factor, people have hoarded since the start of Classic and will do the same for TBC, as they know what is going to go up as the content has already been played through. This is going to occur regardless of what happens and a reset is not going to fix it.

    Sure, some people are struggling to make gold, but a lot of it is due to having a healer or non farm efficient class as a main and also playing on a competitive PvP server where all the main gold making techniques are near impossible (devilsaurs etc), severely limiting their actual ability to acquire said gold.

    People are going to have their opinions either way, and there's always going to be people complaining about every option they take, but I honestly see a fresh start or wipe resulting in a bigger loss in players and subs than a continuation of the game. Player retention is obviously Blizzard's biggest priority after gaining such a large number of returning players and subs with Classic, and I personally think there's only one way to do it.

  16. #676
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Inflation is not the only factor, people have hoarded since the start of Classic and will do the same for TBC, as they know what is going to go up as the content has already been played through. This is going to occur regardless of what happens and a reset is not going to fix it.
    No.. no it will not. Hording is a non issue in tbc. There is nothing you can really horde in tbc to make it worth your time. But even ignoring the horded items in classic, the inflation is still real and it is still a problem.

    Sure, some people are struggling to make gold, but a lot of it is due to having a healer or non farm efficient class as a main and also playing on a competitive PvP server where all the main gold making techniques are near impossible (devilsaurs etc), severely limiting their actual ability to acquire said gold.
    So again, exactly how would a non wipe be beneficial to them? If they can't afford anything now, and if prices continue to be in the state of inflation they are now when tbc releases, then they are going to be SUPER fucked when it comes to level 70, when the feature built into tbc to help healers and these people farm gold becomes obsolete from day one because of how high the prices are. Wiping gold is beneficial for the majority of people, period.

    People are going to have their opinions either way, and there's always going to be people complaining about every option they take, but I honestly see a fresh start or wipe resulting in a bigger loss in players and subs than a continuation of the game. Player retention is obviously Blizzard's biggest priority after gaining such a large number of returning players and subs with Classic, and I personally think there's only one way to do it.
    I'm telling you right now, if you think that the maximum amount of players will be retained in an expansion where you can't afford a damn thing and dailies are worthless for casuals, then you are out of your god damn mind.

    If the goal is retention, then wiping is the best solution. People may be pissed, but I can assure you it's the minority, and those people who are that crazy about farming gold are going to be playing no matter what. Even if they will be crying a lot threatening to leave, they won't.

  17. #677
    I think Blizzard understands that the motive for most people to play TBC would be the same as it was for Vanilla - to revisit the old content. I think sub numbers will be far greater if they don't force people to level to 60 first in Vanilla to start in equal grounds.

    Which means that people should have the option to copy their vanilla character (without being able to bring any items/money) OR to boost one character instantly to 60. There is absolutely no reason to give head start for people who have played Vanilla, when the idea is to let people revisit old content.

    And I can almost guarantee that people will NOT be able to bring their gold or comparable from Vanilla. Blizzard wants to draw in the majority - people still playing Vanilla actively when TBC is released will be a small minority compared to how many people wants to play TBC on launch. They won't piss on that majority, you can quote me on this one when they finally release something.
    Last edited by facefist; 2020-05-29 at 11:04 PM.

  18. #678
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    No.. no it will not. Hording is a non issue in tbc. There is nothing you can really horde in tbc to make it worth your time. But even ignoring the horded items in classic, the inflation is still real and it is still a problem.
    Nothing you can hoard? I sincerely doubt that. There is stuff you can keep in every aspect of the game that will fluctuate in value, and when people know what is coming next in terms of content, consumables, craftable gear, they will do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    So again, exactly how would a non wipe be beneficial to them? If they can't afford anything now, and if prices continue to be in the state of inflation they are now when tbc releases, then they are going to be SUPER fucked when it comes to level 70, when the feature built into tbc to help healers and these people farm gold becomes obsolete from day one because of how high the prices are. Wiping gold is beneficial for the majority of people, period.
    My point is that the reason they have no gold is because of a fault of their own, you can't expect to do nothing on a MMO and have gold rain down on you. Wiping gold is only beneficial to people with no gold, period. You keep saying it's beneficial for nearly everyone, yet you're penalising so many players... The point still stands, wiping progress is not going to magically fix inflation and prices of things. If you want to play on a high cost server, then you better be ready to farm some gold for it. There will always be people that complain about this, and they will be left behind in the exact same way as now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    I'm telling you right now, if you think that the maximum amount of players will be retained in an expansion where you can't afford a damn thing and dailies are worthless for casuals, then you are out of your god damn mind.

    If the goal is retention, then wiping is the best solution. People may be pissed, but I can assure you it's the minority, and those people who are that crazy about farming gold are going to be playing no matter what. Even if they will be crying a lot threatening to leave, they won't.
    And I'm telling you, if you think that wiping everyone's progress and forcing them to start over is going to retain players, then you are out of your god damn mind.

    You can't assure anything, you're forcing your opinion like it is fact, I'm guessing it's because you have no gold yourself. You are not talking about retail players that will take any amount of crap from Blizzard and keep playing, you're mainly dealing with returning players that will leave in a heartbeat if they don't like certain changes, and wiping progress is one way to do that, imo.

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Nothing you can hoard? I sincerely doubt that. There is stuff you can keep in every aspect of the game that will fluctuate in value, and when people know what is coming next in terms of content, consumables, craftable gear, they will do it.
    .
    I’m sorry but this just displays your ignorance in how these expansions work. Do you even know what items get horded and why? This is an honest question. Tbc has NONE of these problems. If you truly don’t know what gets horded and why I can surely help you out.

    My point is that the reason they have no gold is because of a fault of their own, you can't expect to do nothing on a MMO and have gold rain down on you. Wiping gold is only beneficial to people with no gold, period. You keep saying it's beneficial for nearly everyone, yet you're penalising so many players... The point still stands, wiping progress is not going to magically fix inflation and prices of things. If you want to play on a high cost server, then you better be ready to farm some gold for it. There will always be people that complain about this, and they will be left behind in the exact same way as now.
    I’m not arguing that people who do nothing in classic should get ‘gold rained down on them’. That’s a classic problem that needs to stay in classic vanilla. That’s what I’m saying.

    Also you can’t be serious with “you don’t just magically fix the problem if...” yeah, yeah you do LOL. If the issue is people coming over from vanilla have too much gold and will cause crazy high prices from the start, wiping the gold DOES completely solve the issue of the economy being fucked from the start. How can you not understand this? Seriously, it’s such a simple concept I’m convinced all of you are playing stupid just to defend your thought of “DONT DELETE MY STUFF”.

    Which is fine if that’s your opinion, but don’t try to bullshit your way into acting like it’s not a harmful thing to the game.

    Another poster up here went into great detail explaining the difference between having a server slowly get inflated and having it inflated from the start and why it’s harmful. If you have any confusion about this I would suggest asking questions instead of making statements on an expansion you clearly don’t know too much about.

    And I'm telling you, if you think that wiping everyone's progress and forcing them to start over is going to retain players, then you are out of your god damn mind.

    You can't assure anything, you're forcing your opinion like it is fact, I'm guessing it's because you have no gold yourself. You are not talking about retail players that will take any amount of crap from Blizzard and keep playing, you're mainly dealing with returning players that will leave in a heartbeat if they don't like certain changes, and wiping progress is one way to do that, imo.
    I’m not making anything that isn’t fact seem like a fact. But when I say it best for the majority of players that’s just a cold hard fact. Casuals have been and will always be the majority of the player base. Full stop. Also just in case you really need to know, I already have both characters I want for tbc at 60 with epic riding and about 10k gold between both of them. This ‘opinion’ of mine isn’t benefiting me at ALL. I just have the foresight of knowing what inflation does to this game. The more gold the server has, the more things on the ah cost, this is simple.

    On top of that throw in an expansion like tbc where dailies are suppose to be a MASSIVE part of the expansion when it comes to making money, if you have inflated prices, things with static gold like dailies become obsolete. This forces anyone who wants to buy anything to farm mats if they want gold. And here’s the thing, not everyone can farm mats, they are locked by time limits. And if someone doesn’t have something like epic flying from the very start, their chances of farming ANYTHING is next to null.

    Honestly, your guys’ side of the argument is getting to be super boring. Literally the ONLY thing you have to stand on is the “but it will piss people off” argument. Which is hilarious. Anything blizzard has ever and will ever do will always and forever “piss people off”. This is a worthless argument when we are discussing what’s the best idea.

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    Lets ask a question: What about players who have NOT played classic Vanilla and would like to play TBC? How would/should they do so? At level 1? Or a template level 58?

    If they are forced to start a level 1 toon on TBC servers,how likely are they to actually sub/stay subed?

    When we think of it in this way it becomes clearer of the advantages of simply having everyone start with a fresh 58 template.

    I realize some are going to suggest any toon +58 can be allowed to be copied, but that would make it progression and be just like live servers. I don't think Blizzard is about to run a shadow version of retail that progresses like retail!
    I am firmly in the transfer camp,let people transfer their classic chars,it is literaly part of the classic experience,the sense of progression from vanila to tbc,fresh 1 or fresh 58 both ruin that

    I do have a 60,but even if i didnt,still would be of the same opinion,if i started playing wow back when original tbc launched,i wouldnt be mad or demanding everyone to start fresh with me lol

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