Page 35 of 37 FirstFirst ...
25
33
34
35
36
37
LastLast
  1. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by Cempa View Post
    Lets ask a question: What about players who have NOT played classic Vanilla and would like to play TBC? How would/should they do so? At level 1? Or a template level 58?

    If they are forced to start a level 1 toon on TBC servers,how likely are they to actually sub/stay subed?


    When we think of it in this way it becomes clearer of the advantages of simply having everyone start with a fresh 58 template.

    I realize some are going to suggest any toon +58 can be allowed to be copied, but that would make it progression and be just like live servers. I don't think Blizzard is about to run a shadow version of retail that progresses like retail!
    No chance at all that I' d level another toon from 1 to max lol. Sub would be cancelled.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    I am firmly in the transfer camp,let people transfer their classic chars,it is literaly part of the classic experience,the sense of progression from vanila to tbc,fresh 1 or fresh 58 both ruin that

    I do have a 60,but even if i didnt,still would be of the same opinion,if i started playing wow back when original tbc launched,i wouldnt be mad or demanding everyone to start fresh with me lol
    I agree with you on the transferring our existing characters.

  2. #682
    Lets ask a question: What about players who have NOT played classic Vanilla and would like to play TBC? How would/should they do so? At level 1? Or a template level 58?

    If they are forced to start a level 1 toon on TBC servers,how likely are they to actually sub/stay subed?

    When we think of it in this way it becomes clearer of the advantages of simply having everyone start with a fresh 58 template.

    I realize some are going to suggest any toon +58 can be allowed to be copied, but that would make it progression and be just like live servers. I don't think Blizzard is about to run a shadow version of retail that progresses like retail!
    New players should start off as level 1, as has been WoW's tradition for going on 16 years now. Don't forget that when TBC launched, leveling from 1-58 was changed to be a lot faster.

    Character copy is the best way to handle the transition from Classic to TBC. It would be a slap in the face to the majority of Classic players with interest in TBC if they lost their characters, and I guarantee most people would have no interest in starting over if it meant losing their hard earned gold, materials, gear, fast mount, etc. And starting off level 58 players with any of those things would not only make no sense, but it would once again be another slap in the face to Classic players who put in the time for those things. TBC will likely be handled very similarly to its original launch, or as close to it as possible. Draenei and Blood Elves will not be starting the game as level 58 and ready to go. They will start from scratch just as they did before. Campaigning for anything different is almost equivalent to asking for barber shops and race changes in Classic. We can all go back and forth about what solution is best, nitpicking each others arguments, and spouting out our opinions of what would be in the "spirit of WoW"... but ultimately it will come down to numbers; subscriptions. Blizzard will not risk losing Classic players interested in TBC because that will be their largest audience. TBC will likely launch with character copies from Classic and subscriptions will rise.
    Last edited by Bootynuzzler; 2020-05-30 at 12:05 AM.

  3. #683
    Quote Originally Posted by Bootynuzzler View Post
    New players should start off as level 1, as has been WoW's tradition for going on 16 years now. Don't forget that when TBC launched, leveling from 1-58 was changed to be a lot faster.

    Character copy is the best way to handle the transition from Classic to TBC. It would be a slap in the face to the majority of Classic players with interest in TBC if they lost their characters, and I guarantee most people would have no interest in starting over if it meant losing their hard earned gold, materials, gear, fast mount, etc. And starting off level 58 players with any of those things would not only make no sense, but it would once again be another slap in the face to Classic players who put in the time for those things. TBC will likely be handled very similarly to its original launch, or as close to it as possible. Draenei and Blood Elves will not be starting the game as level 58 and ready to go. They will start from scratch just as they did before. Campaigning for anything different is almost equivalent to asking for barber shops and race changes in Classic. We can all go back and forth about what solution is best, nitpicking each others arguments, and spouting out our opinions of what would be in the "spirit of WoW"... but ultimately it will come down to numbers; subscriptions. Blizzard will not risk losing Classic players interested in TBC because that will be their largest audience. TBC will likely launch with character copies from Classic and subscriptions will rise.
    Just a little FYI new players have started their first char at the previous expansions end level for almost 6 years now

  4. #684
    Herald of the Titans Ron Burgundy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    In the mountains
    Posts
    2,545
    So blood elf and Draenei starting zones are completely discarded and ignored in BC?


    Give me a break. This is a stupid idea.
    Milk was a bad choice.


    2013 MMO-Champion User of the Year (2nd runner up)

  5. #685
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    I am firmly in the transfer camp,let people transfer their classic chars,it is literaly part of the classic experience,the sense of progression from vanila to tbc,fresh 1 or fresh 58 both ruin that

    I do have a 60,but even if i didnt,still would be of the same opinion,if i started playing wow back when original tbc launched,i wouldnt be mad or demanding everyone to start fresh with me lol
    I wonder how many would play TBC if they had to level from 1?

  6. #686
    Immortal TJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    7,665
    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    I’m sorry but this just displays your ignorance in how these expansions work. Do you even know what items get horded and why? This is an honest question. Tbc has NONE of these problems. If you truly don’t know what gets horded and why I can surely help you out.
    There is no ignorance shown at all, just no understanding from you. Stuff will be hoarded, guaranteed. You can pretend TBC will be perfect and nothing bad will happen, but it will be in the same position as Classic, so will Wrath, and so on. People know what's going to happen as it's played before, you can't change that...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    I’m not arguing that people who do nothing in classic should get ‘gold rained down on them’. That’s a classic problem that needs to stay in classic vanilla. That’s what I’m saying.

    Also you can’t be serious with “you don’t just magically fix the problem if...” yeah, yeah you do LOL. If the issue is people coming over from vanilla have too much gold and will cause crazy high prices from the start, wiping the gold DOES completely solve the issue of the economy being fucked from the start. How can you not understand this? Seriously, it’s such a simple concept I’m convinced all of you are playing stupid just to defend your thought of “DONT DELETE MY STUFF”.


    Which is fine if that’s your opinion, but don’t try to bullshit your way into acting like it’s not a harmful thing to the game.
    Yes, yet you seem to think that people that have no gold in Classic will magically have thousands in TBC?? It will always be the same, that is my point. People have whined and complained about not having gold since WoW was released, it's nothing new. Some people cannot afford stuff and will never be able to, regardless of expansion. This is not some sudden issue that has appeared solely in Classic.

    No, no it doens't LOL. There will ALWAYS be problems, especially on the big servers. Classic was basically a wipe (as it was a fresh start) and look at the problems it has now. I understand you're saying "it will be worse at the start", yet one of your points is that the majority of the playerbase is casual and has no gold, so how can this minority of people with gold ruin everything? The only one playing stupid is you mate, hypocritically and seemingly thinking TBC will be some flawless masterpiece with a wipe, when in reality, the problems of gold will always surface, as it has in every single expansion for certain players, as mentioned previously..


    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    I’m not making anything that isn’t fact seem like a fact. But when I say it best for the majority of players that’s just a cold hard fact. Casuals have been and will always be the majority of the player base. Full stop. Also just in case you really need to know, I already have both characters I want for tbc at 60 with epic riding and about 10k gold between both of them. This ‘opinion’ of mine isn’t benefiting me at ALL. I just have the foresight of knowing what inflation does to this game. The more gold the server has, the more things on the ah cost, this is simple.

    On top of that throw in an expansion like tbc where dailies are suppose to be a MASSIVE part of the expansion when it comes to making money, if you have inflated prices, things with static gold like dailies become obsolete. This forces anyone who wants to buy anything to farm mats if they want gold. And here’s the thing, not everyone can farm mats, they are locked by time limits. And if someone doesn’t have something like epic flying from the very start, their chances of farming ANYTHING is next to null.

    Honestly, your guys’ side of the argument is getting to be super boring. Literally the ONLY thing you have to stand on is the “but it will piss people off” argument. Which is hilarious. Anything blizzard has ever and will ever do will always and forever “piss people off”. This is a worthless argument when we are discussing what’s the best idea.
    Yet you shoot yourself in the foot again.. If casuals are the majority of the playerbase, then how is the minority with gold going to ruin the game? Dailies obsolete? Ok.

    It's hilarious to read your justification of this miracle fix, which will infact not solve the route of the problem. You seem to be stuck in a bigot bubble with fingers in your ears going "WIPE WIPE WIPE WIPE".

    Whatever bro, have your opinion. Nothing is going to fix an inflation issue as it has happened in every expac since WoW has been released, as much as you want to believe it will. Whether a wipe delays it by a month or maybe a few, the issue will still be there.

  7. #687
    My TBC experience was leveling from 60 to 70, I already revisited vanilla and so dont want to level through it again.

    Also, I understand some people only want to revisit TBC and I'm ok with letting those people to completely skip Vanilla. Its an old game and imo would be selfish to force people to play old content for a month+ to reach the actual TBC part.

    So I'm fine with character copy or instant 60 for one char, but definitely would be a no go for me if I had to lvl from 1.
    Last edited by facefist; 2020-05-30 at 10:17 AM.

  8. #688
    It should be fresh, not even transferable from Vanilla, just let it be a new thing.

  9. #689
    High Overlord Nak88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Huelva (Spain)
    Posts
    198
    Quote Originally Posted by facefist View Post
    My TBC experience was leveling from 60 to 70, I already revisited vanilla and so dont want to level through it again.

    Also, I understand some people only want to revisit TBC and I'm ok with letting those people to completely skip Vanilla. Its an old game and imo would be selfish to force people to play old content for a month+ to reach the actual TBC part.

    So I'm fine with character copy or instant 60 for one char, but definitely would be a no go for me if I had to lvl from 1.
    I totally agree with this, but let me add the following: draeneis and blood elves should start at lvl 1 at their starting zones, because those areas were TBC and let them boost all the way to 58 once they reach lvl 20 in the starting areas, as one recent TBC private server did with great results.

  10. #690
    T
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    There is no ignorance shown at all, just no understanding from you. Stuff will be hoarded, guaranteed. You can pretend TBC will be perfect and nothing bad will happen, but it will be in the same position as Classic, so will Wrath, and so on. People know what's going to happen as it's played before, you can't change that...



    Yes, yet you seem to think that people that have no gold in Classic will magically have thousands in TBC?? It will always be the same, that is my point. People have whined and complained about not having gold since WoW was released, it's nothing new. Some people cannot afford stuff and will never be able to, regardless of expansion. This is not some sudden issue that has appeared solely in Classic.

    No, no it doens't LOL. There will ALWAYS be problems, especially on the big servers. Classic was basically a wipe (as it was a fresh start) and look at the problems it has now. I understand you're saying "it will be worse at the start", yet one of your points is that the majority of the playerbase is casual and has no gold, so how can this minority of people with gold ruin everything? The only one playing stupid is you mate, hypocritically and seemingly thinking TBC will be some flawless masterpiece with a wipe, when in reality, the problems of gold will always surface, as it has in every single expansion for certain players, as mentioned previously..




    Yet you shoot yourself in the foot again.. If casuals are the majority of the playerbase, then how is the minority with gold going to ruin the game? Dailies obsolete? Ok.

    It's hilarious to read your justification of this miracle fix, which will infact not solve the route of the problem. You seem to be stuck in a bigot bubble with fingers in your ears going "WIPE WIPE WIPE WIPE".

    Whatever bro, have your opinion. Nothing is going to fix an inflation issue as it has happened in every expac since WoW has been released, as much as you want to believe it will. Whether a wipe delays it by a month or maybe a few, the issue will still be there.
    I don’t need to respond to anything else in this post if you start it off with believing mats will get horded in tbc. You proven you are completely clueless as to why and what gets horded.

    Your ignorance couldn’t be any higher

  11. #691
    They should just copy all of the existing Classic servers to make TBC.

    That way your Classic char can still play Classic and have the option to do TBC. They should also do this before the official launch, so the copies could get the TBC prepatch experience for ~1 month.

  12. #692
    Fresh level 58 is the best option. Character copy will be abused unless they only allow items that are equip to be transferable no golds. But having 2/3 characters running with AQ40/Naxx items will ruin the progression. Only downside imo with instant lvl 58 is the bots and class imbalance very easy to level class up to 70. I might play TBC but I wont play it if I have to level from 1. Classic level content was still a chore during TBC it wasn't until Wotlk we could blaze through it.

  13. #693
    Immortal TJ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    North Wales
    Posts
    7,665
    Quote Originally Posted by Mosha View Post
    T

    I don’t need to respond to anything else in this post if you start it off with believing mats will get horded in tbc. You proven you are completely clueless as to why and what gets horded.

    Your ignorance couldn’t be any higher
    Pot calling the kettle black, trying to play smartman economist on the internet.

    "I don't need to respond because I know I'm wrong and believe that wiping everything will be a miracle fix and magically solve every current and future issue".

    Nice.

  14. #694
    Warchief Beet's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Who me?
    Posts
    2,061
    As I’ve said before this would be so dumb and I’m thankful blizzard won’t do it. The majority of vanilla fans are going to move to TBC. in fact I bet less than 10% of the population stay. So even if they didn’t let us transfer they’d just have the people quit the game or roll fresh on TBC realms cause it’s fresh and new.

    In the end I’m guessing the rumor will be what happens, they’ll end up giving us the option to transfer our character to a vanilla only realm or stay on our realm as it progresses to TBC.

    I also fully believe they will open up one or two new TBC servers for fresh rerollers.

  15. #695
    Quote Originally Posted by Bootynuzzler View Post
    New players should start off as level 1, as has been WoW's tradition for going on 16 years now. Don't forget that when TBC launched, leveling from 1-58 was changed to be a lot faster.

    Character copy is the best way to handle the transition from Classic to TBC. It would be a slap in the face to the majority of Classic players with interest in TBC if they lost their characters, and I guarantee most people would have no interest in starting over if it meant losing their hard earned gold, materials, gear, fast mount, etc. And starting off level 58 players with any of those things would not only make no sense, but it would once again be another slap in the face to Classic players who put in the time for those things. TBC will likely be handled very similarly to its original launch, or as close to it as possible. Draenei and Blood Elves will not be starting the game as level 58 and ready to go. They will start from scratch just as they did before. Campaigning for anything different is almost equivalent to asking for barber shops and race changes in Classic. We can all go back and forth about what solution is best, nitpicking each others arguments, and spouting out our opinions of what would be in the "spirit of WoW"... but ultimately it will come down to numbers; subscriptions. Blizzard will not risk losing Classic players interested in TBC because that will be their largest audience. TBC will likely launch with character copies from Classic and subscriptions will rise.
    Your final conclusion is only an opinion as well though. People currently playing Classic and feel some sort of attachment to their current Classic characters are a very small minority of the audience interested in TBC (imo). The large audience is the one that wants to briefly revisit old expansions, which happened exactly with Classic: most people are gone by now. You cannot slap those people either that want to play only TBC content and I can guarantee that it would also be terrible from subscription point of view if people felt unmotivated to start playing TBC due to some people running around with thousands of gold and stacked 60's. Times are different now, back then people didn't care that much.

    Imo from subscription point of view it would probably be best to cater for both groups:
    1) Make servers where people can transfer/copy their Classic characters with gold etc. so they don't feel like they lose their progress.
    2) Make servers where people can get instant 58 for the people who want a fresh start or didn't play Classic and are only interested in the TBC part of the game. No transfers into these servers.

    This way neither of the groups should feel neglected. I can almost guarantee that the servers running option 2 would be far more popular in the launch, but they would also bleed players way faster than the servers with option 1.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beet View Post
    I also fully believe they will open up one or two new TBC servers for fresh rerollers.
    I think this is indeed the most sensible way to go. If only servers with character copies are available, a huge audience will be mad (people who didn't play vanilla and are not interested in playing it. I also doubt these people want to give diehard Classic players a headstart just because they farmed gold in Vanilla). If character copies are not available, a huge audience will be mad (people who played vanilla and feel attached to their characters/want to bring their gold they worked for). Only way to make both audiences happy would be to open servers with both options.
    Last edited by facefist; 2020-05-30 at 10:36 PM.

  16. #696
    What is the point of keeping a classic version of your character on some obscure server stuck in classic? Be honest, are you ever going to go back and play it for more than 5 mins once it is stuck on a dead server?

  17. #697
    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    Pot calling the kettle black, trying to play smartman economist on the internet.

    "I don't need to respond because I know I'm wrong and believe that wiping everything will be a miracle fix and magically solve every current and future issue".

    Nice.
    Fine I’ll explain it to you because it seems you aren’t grasping it.

    What gets horded in vanilla? Mats for resist flask and black lotus.

    Now why do these get horded?

    The mats for resist get horded early on, because at the start when things like nature damage or frost damage isn’t a problem. Then when we need them they sell for a higher price because they have a use now.

    This doesn’t really CAUSE the price to go up by hording it. People horde it BECAUSE the value will eventually go up.

    The only thing that gets horded that effects the economy is black lotus. Do you understand how and why that is? The way it spawns (I’m not explaining that to you, you should know this) makes it EXTREMELY easy to manipulate. You can create a monopoly and drive the prices way high by doing so.

    Tbc does not have these features. They just don’t. The flasks you need from the start, and the flasks you need at the end are the same. The materials you need for recipes are basically unlimited. If you need them, you can go get them. No one is holding them hostage. You can horde items all you want in tbc, people are going to be getting them anyway.

    The issue with hording and prices going up is nonexistent in tbc. Full stop. End of discussion. The only issue is prices going up because inflation.

    Because you didn’t know this, there’s no point in arguing the ‘issues’ with the market in tbc, because you are CLEARLY ignorant to everything involved in this problem

  18. #698
    High Overlord Nak88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
    Location
    Huelva (Spain)
    Posts
    198
    Quote Originally Posted by last1214 View Post
    What is the point of keeping a classic version of your character on some obscure server stuck in classic? Be honest, are you ever going to go back and play it for more than 5 mins once it is stuck on a dead server?
    There is no point. Nobody will play Classic once TBC is out, except a few fanatics. When those guys are fully equipped with t3 gear, all reps and professions maxed out, what are they going to do? They won't last more than a week before they transfer to the TBC realms.

  19. #699
    Quote Originally Posted by Nak88 View Post
    There is no point. Nobody will play Classic once TBC is out, except a few fanatics. When those guys are fully equipped with t3 gear, all reps and professions maxed out, what are they going to do? They won't last more than a week before they transfer to the TBC realms.
    I think there is a small minority that will just forever run around with their full t3. However, many of them will lose interest in the game when people with lesser gear are gone and the server is filled only with their equal in terms or gear/progress. No more pwning noobs and being a big boy with all the gear.

    And I am not saying this to bash those people. I've been there myself. In the early days of WoW (through Vanilla and even most of TBC) it just felt so cool being so highly geared that people would constantly come to you, ask for help and just look at your char in awe. Hell, even being a high level in the early Vanilla made people follow you around. But it is a possibility that the lack of lessers will actually make the game less interesting for many diehard Vanilla fans, I can certainly say that 15 years back it was one of the driving forces for me. Obviously it is not anymore as I've grown 15 years older and find other aspects more important.

  20. #700
    Bloodsail Admiral LaserChild9's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Under your Desk
    Posts
    1,171
    [QUOTE=Cempa;52234352]
    Quote Originally Posted by facefist View Post
    I think Blizzard understands that the motive for most people to play TBC would be the same as it was for Vanilla - to revisit the old content. I think sub numbers will be far greater if they don't force people to level to 60 first in Vanilla to start in equal grounds.

    Which means that people should have the option to copy their vanilla character (without being able to bring any items/money) OR to boost one character instantly to 60. There is absolutely no reason to give head start for people who have played Vanilla, when the idea is to let people revisit old content.

    And I can almost guarantee that people will NOT be able to bring their gold or comparable from Vanilla. Blizzard wants to draw in the majority - people still playing Vanilla actively when TBC is released will be a small minority compared to how many people wants to play TBC on launch. They won't piss on that majority, you can quote me on this one when they finally release something.
    This is my logic, and this is why I think all servers should be upgraded to BC as if it were an expansion, people can keep their progress and alts, and those that want to continue on classic can transfer to a classic only server. This makes sense to me for several reasons.

    There are 23 Classic servers in the EU by my count. If they anticipate most people will play BC then they would need to create at least another 20 new servers for BC otherwise launch is going to be a nightmare if they have any less. This would leave them with 23 pretty dead Vanilla servers with shot economies because although the gold hasn't gone anywhere, nobody is spending it because they are all on BC servers, not to mention demand for items will have fallen off a cliff.
    If they instead created say 8 Brand new Vanilla servers and they allow the Hardcore Vanilla players to transfer to them with all their gold the economies would be much healthier because it would actually be getting spent and items traded and those server populations would be better, filled with people that will actively participate.
    The other thing to consider is that if you force the majority to move to new servers lots of people are going to end up losing names and to me personally, my character names are important to me as I am sure they are to others. People will lose names regardless of who transfers, but if you transfer the minority, there are less people so you you have a higher chance to get the names you want.

    Forcing the majority to transfer or move to another server will lead to Vanillas Servers needing to merged or for transfers to happen anyway otherwise Vanilla will lose its community because it will be spread too thin over too many dead servers. Transferring the minority, whether that be Vanilla or BC players makes sense for Blizzard, it means less servers, less server maintenance and less work later to tackle low server populations.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zarc View Post
    The Horde is the West, the Allies are the Soviets (kind of makes more sense the other way around, but I'm Horde and I didn't want to be the commies in this metaphor.. For the Horde!) and the Legion are the Nazis.
    Quote Originally Posted by Masark View Post
    A person who is saying "You need a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun" sounds like someone who wants to sell 2 guns.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •