TBC Fresh 58's Only

[Heathy]

like I said with the ignorance. I can make a spare account and repost it with a different name if you want.

nothing you've said holds any weight even if it wasn't you saying it.

in the end i'm not too bothered about how much gold I can or can not take into tbc. my only wish is that I can continue my character and take it, however it is at the end of classic, directly into outland and continue on. I know that gold grinding in tbc was orders of magnitude easier than grinding gold in classic currently is. so it matters not to me. those ppl who want thousands upon thousands of gold will have that much gold a month or two into tbc. (I doubt ill even have 1k gold at the end of classic, optimistically ill have less than 2k gold, pessimistically ill have less than 500g)

but ppl will end up with a lot of gold anyway because the flying mount gold sink is about 6k gold. so when, on average, everyone needs 6k gold, you automatically have an average amount of gold that ppl are trying to get to. its going to be higher by default because the gold sinks are larger by default. how much gold you personally bring with you is irrelevant when everyone needs upward of 6 k gold just to unlock flying. this is 6 times more gold than you needed for your epic mount in classic. the average amount of gold will be higher regardless. 6 times higher to be exact. based entirely around the gold sinks.

there will also be other ways of making gold, farming old mats to boost professions for example, there is always a market for items that are just used to level up professions. so you can sell a lot of ore to jewel crafters from classic, during tbc.. a lot of the gold you end up with only has 1 use, to be injected into your alts, when you have your epic flying skill, you're raiding weekly, you have your consumables, the only thing left is to spend gold on your alts and unlock flying on them. if you want to play multiple alts and get epic flying on all of them, then its going to cost a lot of gold. 5-6k per alt.

if you wanted 2 alts with your main, and get epic flying on all 3 characters you'd be looking at needing nearly 15k gold. and this just scales linearly with every alt you wish to play and unlock flying on. but at a certain point this is the only thing you can, put significant amounts of gold into. or you can just let it accumulate indefinitely and save it for wrath and the gold sinks there. there is a limit to how much gold you can inject directly into one character and have that equal some measurable progress or power gain. you cannot sink infinite amounts of gold into a single character, there isn't that much sink or power creep, the game doesn't have any creep, it has hard defined limits. it has a limit. in other words, there is a hard limit on how much gold you can use to increase your characters power in a permanent way at any particular moment in time. at some point you won't be able to inject any more gold into that character to further its progress in any meaningful way. at this point you either save it continually, or you throw it at your alts.

what is interesting though is that when you have your epic flying skill on your main, even if you don't play alts that much you will feel inclined to save your gold until you can afford another epic flying skill for an alt, so even when you've sunk 5k into flying, your only goal concerning gold then will be to grow your pile back to 5k again. so you can, if you wanted to, buy flying again for an alt. but also just so you have the gold back that you just threw into a void. with the lack of any significant gold sinks past that 5k skill, your gold will only accumulate, with you losing 100s maybe here and there for mats or enchants but nothing that is fundamental and costs more than the flying skill does. nothing that is required for progress, you don't even need flying to progress through raids because you can be summoned to the instance.

enchanting your gear never cost that much, i'm pretty sure in TBC, is where they added GREED FOR DE. so even if you can't disenchant it was the expansion where you could get enchanting mats just by having an enchanter in the group.

consumables don't cost that much, if you have a character with fishing and cooking then it takes minutes to farm a stack of food buffs. and costs nothing at all.

[Mosha]

like I said with the ignorance. I can make a spare account and repost it with a different name if you want.

nothing you've said holds any weight even if it wasn't you saying it.

in the end i'm not too bothered about how much gold I can or can not take into tbc. my only wish is that I can continue my character and take it, however it is at the end of classic, directly into outland and continue on. I know that gold grinding in tbc was orders of magnitude easier than grinding gold in classic currently is. so it matters not to me. those ppl who want thousands upon thousands of gold will have that much gold a month or two into tbc. (I doubt ill even have 1k gold at the end of classic, optimistically ill have less than 2k gold, pessimistically ill have less than 500g)

but ppl will end up with a lot of gold anyway because the flying mount gold sink is about 6k gold. so when, on average, everyone needs 6k gold, you automatically have an average amount of gold that ppl are trying to get to. its going to be higher by default because the gold sinks are larger by default. how much gold you personally bring with you is irrelevant when everyone needs upward of 6 k gold just to unlock flying. this is 6 times more gold than you needed for your epic mount in classic. the average amount of gold will be higher regardless. 6 times higher to be exact. based entirely around the gold sinks.

there will also be other ways of making gold, farming old mats to boost professions for example, there is always a market for items that are just used to level up professions. so you can sell a lot of ore to jewel crafters from classic, during tbc.. a lot of the gold you end up with only has 1 use, to be injected into your alts, when you have your epic flying skill, you're raiding weekly, you have your consumables, the only thing left is to spend gold on your alts and unlock flying on them. if you want to play multiple alts and get epic flying on all of them, then its going to cost a lot of gold. 5-6k per alt.

if you wanted 2 alts with your main, and get epic flying on all 3 characters you'd be looking at needing nearly 15k gold. and this just scales linearly with every alt you wish to play and unlock flying on. but at a certain point this is the only thing you can, put significant amounts of gold into. or you can just let it accumulate indefinitely and save it for wrath and the gold sinks there. there is a limit to how much gold you can inject directly into one character and have that equal some measurable progress or power gain. you cannot sink infinite amounts of gold into a single character, there isn't that much sink or power creep, the game doesn't have any creep, it has hard defined limits. it has a limit. in other words, there is a hard limit on how much gold you can use to increase your characters power in a permanent way at any particular moment in time. at some point you won't be able to inject any more gold into that character to further its progress in any meaningful way. at this point you either save it continually, or you throw it at your alts.

what is interesting though is that when you have your epic flying skill on your main, even if you don't play alts that much you will feel inclined to save your gold until you can afford another epic flying skill for an alt, so even when you've sunk 5k into flying, your only goal concerning gold then will be to grow your pile back to 5k again. so you can, if you wanted to, buy flying again for an alt. but also just so you have the gold back that you just threw into a void. with the lack of any significant gold sinks past that 5k skill, your gold will only accumulate, with you losing 100s maybe here and there for mats or enchants but nothing that is fundamental and costs more than the flying skill does. nothing that is required for progress, you don't even need flying to progress through raids because you can be summoned to the instance.

enchanting your gear never cost that much, i'm pretty sure in TBC, is where they added GREED FOR DE. so even if you can't disenchant it was the expansion where you could get enchanting mats just by having an enchanter in the group.

consumables don't cost that much, if you have a character with fishing and cooking then it takes minutes to farm a stack of food buffs. and costs nothing at all.

I don't think you remember, I told you I'm not reading any of your posts anymore after that one thread. Your opinion means nothing to me.

[hulkgor]

1 fresh lvl 58 and the rest are fresh lvl 1s. Done. Vanilla and tbc are different games. I’m ok if the classic players get pissed and refuse to play tbc. More server space for me.

This is probably the most absurd idea i've read in a long while. Wow, thanks i guess?

[Heathy]

I don't think you remember, I told you I'm not reading any of your posts anymore after that one thread. Your opinion means nothing to me.

deal with it butter cup because i'm going to keep pointing out the bullshit whether you like it or not. if you can't back up the tripe that your spouting, thats all you have to say. thats how i'm taking it anyway, you have nothing to back up your claims so you're trying and failing to handwave me away, well i'm not going away. if you can't back up what your saying we'll just leave it at that. i've put substance into my posts and all i've got in return is piss poor attempts at handwaving away anything you can't debate. i'm still waiting for some sort of follow through but yet, none has materialized yet.

if its any consolation I don't deal in opinion, only facts. so whatever problem you have is all you.

I may give my opinion on something i've said, but everything i've said is based initially on a point of objectivity. its not subjective its based on objective facts.

[Zeons]

This is probably the most absurd idea i've read in a long while. Wow, thanks i guess?

You are welcome cupcake.

[koalafarmer]

need to keep wow classic servers alive. Odds on they die. Copy 1 character over per account. Keep it simple.

[ovm33]

need to keep wow classic servers alive. Odds on they die. Copy 1 character over per account. Keep it simple.

I see it more likely they give you 1x transfer for free then $25 bucks to transfer other characters. You think Activision is going to pass on the chance for some more free money?

[Mosha]

I see it more likely they give you 1x transfer for free then $25 bucks to transfer other characters. You think Activision is going to pass on the chance for some more free money?

Possibly, but I honestly wouldn’t bet they do this. Only because, when classic was still in development, the majority of players 100% expected classic to have a box price around $30 and to have a separate sub, and we found out they were basically just giving us the game for a sub cost. They could have made a shit ton of money right there for nothing, but I think the classic project is basically just there to drive up sub counts for their investors.

[Cempa]

Lets ask a question: What about players who have NOT played classic Vanilla and would like to play TBC? How would/should they do so? At level 1? Or a template level 58?

If they are forced to start a level 1 toon on TBC servers,how likely are they to actually sub/stay subed?

When we think of it in this way it becomes clearer of the advantages of simply having everyone start with a fresh 58 template.

I realize some are going to suggest any toon +58 can be allowed to be copied, but that would make it progression and be just like live servers. I don't think Blizzard is about to run a shadow version of retail that progresses like retail!

[TJ]

I see it more likely they give you 1x transfer for free then $25 bucks to transfer other characters. You think Activision is going to pass on the chance for some more free money?

Majority of people playing Classic have already quit retail, I doubt they're going to throw money at Activision simply for transfers, I know I won't. The mindset is different from retail players who have played the game for years and years and will pay for pretty much anything, as they have already been fed up and quit previously. If they do something ridiculous like reset all progress, charge you to transfer over, I can guarantee my sub will be cancelled.

I'm enjoying Classic, but it will not last forever, and I'm not going to get ripped off to progress from it.

[Sardoc]

1.Goldstrats that involve farming old materials are far less valueable (for obvious reasons)
2.Strats that primarily focus on selling greys / raw gold either are in the open world (=Competition) or are in Instances, if you're hitting the lockout cap in Classic, you're not going to make more gold in TBC.

Doesn't matter if you can now do a Lasher farm within 3 minutes instead of 10, 5 dungeons per hour are 5 dungeons per hour.

There is a difference between things being "as they were" and things being affordable for people that haven't hoarded tens of thousands of gold.

This is basically 1x1 on Inflation, it's not really harmful over a long period, but damn harmful if it happens within a short amount of time.

... so, you'd delay the point where things get expensive, while pissing off lots of players.

No, you're just delaying the drama.
The bomb will drop for a lot of people once they are 70, haven't done any "gold preperation", go the AH and realize that they can afford absolutely nothing, at this point they either have to get by without the auction house or farm gold via the auction house.

I love hyperboles.

[Mosha]

... so, you'd delay the point where things get expensive, while pissing off lots of players.



I love hyperboles.

The alternative being, doing nothing, pissing off the MAJORITY of players who now can't buy a single thing on the AH and making dailies a complete waste of time for everyone.

Yes, yes, I would want this. Those players who will get 'pissed off' will still play and they will still be able to play the game in a way that's more intended.

And there is no reason to be pissed off. Blizzard isn't taking shit away from you, you will still have your gold in classic, so go spend it there if you really want to.

[Schmilblick]

Nope, I don't want to level other characters from 1, a copy option would be the perfect and reasonable option.

[Sardoc]

Even if it was abstract your timeline was still retardedly small assuming that would happen so there is no need to even attempt to argue with you if you believe or even use such nonsense lines in a discussion. Also, I never said I do know there wasn't some spot, but from what I know about tbc there is nothing similar to this like there is in vanilla. I leave open the possibility for sure because i don't know if something hidden is there we aren't sure about, but regardless this doesn't HELP you argument at all.

... so, you did take it literally.

Showing ignorance to what I just said, great job. I am not after the individual with this amount of money, I'm after the problems that rise up when the average gold per person is literally doubled.

Yes, you are after them.

Then you are ignorant to how the economy works, plain and simple nothing more to add. Wiping the economy sets everyone at an equal level. If everyone on average has lets say 1.5k gold without a wipe, then they are much more willing and WILL pay hundreds of gold per mats. If people walk in with nothing, or little to nothing, those mats will not sell for hundreds because no one will have that money to pay for them, they will sell lower. This is EXTREMELY simple. If you can't understand that then you once again prove you aren't worth anyone's time here.

Are you by any chance a marxist? They also think they can save the world if they just get rid of the rich.

Yes, you are literally fixing the problems I brought up with a wipe. Just because you say "You didn't fix any problems" doesn't make it so. I literally explained to you with examples and CLEAR logic how this would be true. And all you have to say is "I CAN'T FOR THE LIFE OF ME UNDERSTAND HOW YOU THINK THAT". I'm sorry but it seems you just aren't that bright of a person if you can't see it bud. Sorry.

No, you don't fix any problems whatsoever, you just get from point A to point B later and piss off a lot of people in the process, especially the casuals. Using caps lock doesn't change that.

[Flurryfang]

Lets ask a question: What about players who have NOT played classic Vanilla and would like to play TBC? How would/should they do so? At level 1? Or a template level 58?

If they are forced to start a level 1 toon on TBC servers,how likely are they to actually sub/stay subed?

When we think of it in this way it becomes clearer of the advantages of simply having everyone start with a fresh 58 template.

I realize some are going to suggest any toon +58 can be allowed to be copied, but that would make it progression and be just like live servers. I don't think Blizzard is about to run a shadow version of retail that progresses like retail!

See, that is the problem i keep facing when i think about TBC and talk it with people, who are not currently playing WoW.

Everybody loves TBC, but not many likes the idea of playing Classic Vanilla. So right now, i know loads of people, who hate the idea, that they will have to play Classic for 1½ month to start on equal grounds when TBC starts. Its a huge barrier.

If everybody playing Classic can copy a lvl 60 character to TBC server, we are just gonna see a huge divide in the people who start at launch and the people who have played Classic for a year. Some might say "Well, then things will just be like back in the day, what is wrong with that?". What is wrong with that, is that people are much more hardcore now than back then, especially when it comes to people who are currently stick with Classic. I fear, that the time it will take for new people to get from lvl 1 to 70, the Vanilla people will have already rushed past the initial stages of the expansion and created a gap between the two kinds of playerbases.

So in the end, what would really change if people could start at lvl 58, if Vanilla people start at lvl 60? The idea of the "Classic" expansions/original Vanilla, is for people to experience a specific expansion. Its not about rebuilding WoW, its about creating snapshots of WoW in a specific time with a specific game design.

[Sardoc]

The alternative being, doing nothing, pissing off the MAJORITY of players who now can't buy a single thing on the AH and making dailies a complete waste of time for everyone.

Yes, yes, I would want this. Those players who will get 'pissed off' will still play and they will still be able to play the game in a way that's more intended.

And there is no reason to be pissed off. Blizzard isn't taking shit away from you, you will still have your gold in classic, so go spend it there if you really want to.

You know, for someone who said I'm not worth anyone's time here, you seem to reply to my stuff an awful lot. Funny that.

I don't know what alternate universe you live in where the majority can't afford anything, but I'm glad it works out for you.

[Kralljin]

... so, you'd delay the point where things get expensive, while pissing off lots of players.

Inflation is pretty standard and fine, as long as it doesn't happen within a short timeframe.

It matters less because everyone accumulates more gold over a longer period of time.

Stop thinking simply because Inflation occurs it will always have the same consequences, it is fine if it occurs over a long period.
It has bad consequences if it occurs within a short timeframe, which will happen because people will generate millions of gold out of nothing on a fresh server, which will then dumped into the economy, because everybody and their mother wants the craftable items.

Which then results in people that have no gold or primarily relied on fixed income (such as gold rewards from quests or selling greys) will struggle to afford anything because gold has barely any value to begin with.

It's like putting cold hands under water, totally fine if the water starts off cold and you then slowly turn up the heat, kinda bad if you put cold hands straight under hot water.

I love hyperboles.

Then what do you think will happen once the people with Millions of gold start spending all their money, while the fresh 70 with 800g shows up on the AH?

[MoanaLisa]

TBC servers if they happen should not be tied to Classic. Start fresh with a pre-made that has some options and head out from there to level.

There's some irony in the expressed love for TBC and how it was not so long ago that people forever complained about having to level through the TBC zones and never wanted to ever do it again.

[Depakote]

No, this is a stupid idea.

[Mosha]

You know, for someone who said I'm not worth anyone's time here, you seem to reply to my stuff an awful lot. Funny that.

I don't know what alternate universe you live in where the majority can't afford anything, but I'm glad it works out for you.

Not surprised I said that to you in the past, your opinions must have bought a permanent void in my memory where I don't even recognize your name anymore.