2h Frost is back in Shadowlands!

[Yarathir]

They even said the Apocalypse is stronger than Frostmourne, and did way more shit in other worlds.

We had a Dagger who could defeat an old god, and the Scepter of sargeras itself, there is no excuses.

We should definitely have a chainquest with the Smith to reforge the 2 toothpicks into the OG frostmourne and get that appearance

Indeed.

In every way but literal, Legion gave us Frostmourne, weapons just about as iconic as Frostmourne and weapons far more powerful than Frostmourne.

It's time.

[Kaver]

I don't mind Frostmourne being put in the game as transmog, but I don't understand why people want it. Having Frostmourn is not very cool when there are a thousand other DKs who also have it. It's only cool if it's unique (in my opinion).

[Gasparde]

Preach's new video confirms what I already suspected, gameplay-wise Shadowlands is a nothing burger for frost, 'the great unpruning' is just or smoke and mirrors for avoiding actually putting effort in (again).

Tbf, Preach's video on the matter was about as superficial as it gets. He spent like a grand total of 1-2 hours questing/doing 1 dungeon all while running the same talent setup.

[Super Kami Dende]

I don't mind Frostmourne being put in the game as transmog, but I don't understand why people want it. Having Frostmourn is not very cool when there are a thousand other DKs who also have it. It's only cool if it's unique (in my opinion).

I guess because some People simply like things that look cool and don't give a shit if other People have pixels that look the same.

[Saltysquidoon]

Tbf, Preach's video on the matter was about as superficial as it gets. He spent like a grand total of 1-2 hours questing/doing 1 dungeon all while running the same talent setup.

Talents don't change the number and availability of runeforges, linked to this mo' mastery still equals mo' problems for 2h. They also don't change the disparity between KM and RA procs between 2h or DW.

On the topic of talents, frost has had an issue since legion that most talents are passive modifiers. The 100 row is an egregious example of this, if you don't run BoS you get to choose from two passives. Icecap literally does not affect your playstyle because you cannot control it and obliteration essentially just sets KM's proc chance to 100%.

[Darist3c]

Just blizz please... 2h frost dk is all I need please give it back

[Lurker1]

hated my legion dwing weapons won't be missed.

[docterfreeze]

You see, I don't agree with this for the same reason I do not agree at all with PvP-only talents. Last time I played seriously my DK for PvE (back in MoP to be precise), even as a casual raider I liked using all my utility, especially as a 2H Frost that had a low APM rotation giving you much more space to use your whole toolkit. Sure, it was different in some ways than using it for PvP, but the notion that only PvPers use the full toolkit is completely wrong IMO and I say it as someone who enjoyed both in equal measure in WoW.

That's fair, as long as I have access to the buttons I don't care who uses/doesn't use them. I've just seen so many PvE centric players talk about wanting "useless" buttons removed that I as a PvPer used every game.

[Saltysquidoon]

Did you watch the video? Frost is getting loads of new abilities back - the core DPS rotation is staying the same

AMZ is great but frost isn't getting it DKs are getting it, you can still use it in unholy and blood same with lichborne, same with ghoul/pact. These are all also defensives which while great to have dont contribute to how a spec plays for a dps class.
DnD might fall into the 'smokescreen' group of abilities you technically have but never use (like 2s hard cast corruption for demo/destro).
The only 'new' ability frost is getting is a direct buff to bos shows they're happy to lean into the band-aid.

Also, even without BoS 2h won't compete with DW based purely on KM and RA procs and runeforges.
Frost as a spec needs work and the fact they had the audacity to tout the doa 2h as frost's main feature for shadowlands shows they care more about baiting people who don't play DKs with nostalgia pandering then actually fixing the spec beyond 'lol play bos'.

[valky94]

DW and 2H are probably gonna play the same, except DW is probably gonna be slightly ahead because of the aditional rune slot

[Nerovar]

DW and 2H are probably gonna play the same, except DW is probably gonna be slightly ahead because of the aditional rune slot

It's pretty much impossible that they'll play the same. There's only two options here:

1) They'll adjust the slower attack speed, worse proc rate and lack of second rune slot with big extra damage on obliterate which will mean we'll have to play a haste build for quicker rune generation and more KM procs that will work very well with BoS
2) They don't adjust and 2 hand will simply be useless

Since they've made a big deal out of this 2h announcement (it's pretty much the only thing they brought up apart from one new talent and Frostwyrm's Fury being baseline) I don't see how they would realistically go with option 2 here. Then again, it's Blizzard and they haven't failed to disappoint me so far.

Did you watch the video? Frost is getting loads of new abilities back - the core DPS rotation is staying the same

Frost is getting three abilities back and some talents are becoming baseline abilities. This is not "loads of abilities" by any stretch of the imagination.

[Natureseer]

2) No more BOS or go home (granted I have not played in quite sometime so maybe the other choices are viable). I am fine with BOS staying in the game, I like the option that type of play style is available for those who enjoy it. I just wish the other 2 options did not suck as much....

to be fair the other 2 options only suck because pillar of frost sucks. icecap only saw use in m+ builds during bfa because of multiple azerite traits that added benefit to pillar of frost. if we dont see something like that again in shadowlands, it will return to being useless along with those talents

[Mirishka]

Also, even without BoS 2h won't compete with DW based purely on KM and RA procs and runeforges.
Frost as a spec needs work and the fact they had the audacity to tout the doa 2h as frost's main feature for shadowlands shows they care more about baiting people who don't play DKs with nostalgia pandering then actually fixing the spec beyond 'lol play bos'.

Main feature? We got an offhanded one-sentence mention of getting the option back - on what whiny-ass, hyperbolic planet is that 'touting as the main DH feature of Shadowlands?'

Memories of the Lich King’s legendary sword Frostmourne stirs the hearts of Frost Death Knights, who can again choose between two 1-handed weapons or one 2-handed weapon to cut down their foes. The harsh lessons learned on frozen tundra of Northrend have manifested into new abilities and Talents. The iconic Frostwyrm’s Fury will be accessible to all Frost Death Knights, rather than needing to be selected as a Talent. Hypothermic Presence is a new Talent that halves the Runic Power cost of abilities for a moderate amount of time, giving the Death Knight the vigor to strike down all who stand against them.

Literally. One. Sentence. Good lord.

"reeee I don't care if we're getting something back DKs have wanted for years, imma find a way to whine and bitch and make it negative regardless!"

[Nerovar]

Agree to disagree. There's not much else you can give frost at this point - DK's have problems but lack of abilities isn't one of them

What do you mean "you disagree". I didn't express an opinion. Calling three abilities "loads" is just not correct.

Apart from that, I agree with you. The problem with Frost DKs doesn't necessarily come from a lack of abilities (you can spec into lots of uninteresting, shitty abilities like Frostscythe, Glacial Advance) but the lack of depth that was caused by the removal of the rune system (and the management thereof) and the removal of presences. Old Frost DK didn't use lots of rotational abilities apart from Frost Strike, Obliterate and Howling Blast but it derived some depth from rune management.

Main feature? We got an offhanded one-sentence mention of getting the option back - on what whiny-ass, hyperbolic planet is that 'touting as the main DH feature of Shadowlands?'

Memories of the Lich King’s legendary sword Frostmourne stirs the hearts of Frost Death Knights, who can again choose between two 1-handed weapons or one 2-handed weapon to cut down their foes. The harsh lessons learned on frozen tundra of Northrend have manifested into new abilities and Talents. The iconic Frostwyrm’s Fury will be accessible to all Frost Death Knights, rather than needing to be selected as a Talent. Hypothermic Presence is a new Talent that halves the Runic Power cost of abilities for a moderate amount of time, giving the Death Knight the vigor to strike down all who stand against them.

Literally. One. Sentence. Good lord.

"reeee I don't care if we're getting something back DKs have wanted for years, imma find a way to whine and bitch and make it negative regardless!"

I mean, they named three things. One of them was being able to play 2h frost again. It doesn't really matter if they just give us the option to wear them if they can't be bothered to balance accordingly (which they haven't thus far).

[Saltysquidoon]

Agree to disagree. There's not much else you can give frost at this point - DK's have problems but lack of abilities isn't one of them

Frosts rotation is 4 buttons (with talents) vanilla frost is 3.

Main feature? We got an offhanded one-sentence mention of getting the option back - on what whiny-ass, hyperbolic planet is that 'touting as the main DH feature of Shadowlands?'

Disingenuous argumentation the post, the feature based on the book of the film.

It is the first thing on the official blizzard page of shadowlands 'changes' for frost DK in what universe is that not a touted feature? By the same token, how is it an 'offhanded comment'? Offhanded means without thought this is a press release. You even got your quote from that source (props for bolding the whole thing because you knew the emphasis looked bad for you).
"Memories of the Lich King’s legendary sword Frostmourne stirs the hearts of Frost Death Knights, who can again choose between two 1-handed weapons or one 2-handed weapon to cut down their foes."

"reeee I don't care if we're getting something back DKs have wanted for years, imma find a way to whine and bitch and make it negative regardless!"

It's nonviable because it lacks access to rune forges, KM and RA procs are tied to swing timers and mastery exists. Why would you accept a touted feature 'that people have wanted for years' if it doesn't work? Why would I accept a non-functional feature in place of actual work being done on the spec?
That's like saying warlocks should be happy Demo and Destro get 2s hardcast corruption back even though it does no damage, doesn't gen shards and isn't going on anyone bars ever.

Yeah yeah, its alpha, its beta, they'll patch it, I don't want to be alone... We've heard all those lies before.

[Nefarious Tea]

The salty on some people are weirdly very sweet

I’m not salty Frost gets 2H back, but I am a little bit that Unholy doesn’t get DW back.

But, mark my words at the end of Shadowlands Frost will lose either DW or 2H, and for the same reason 2H was removed in the first place.

[Saltysquidoon]

Good thing you don't only use core rotational abilities then - so we have (before talents)

I mean I don't know about you but as a rule, I don't count things like interrupts or cc or 'spells that may not even make it onto my bars' when I'm considering the gameplay health of the spec.
No one's saying the feral's in a good place because it has skull bash and roots.

Also, you missed AMS and control undead and the runeforging button and path of frost and dark command and death gate

[Kemsa]

At least Blizzard added new Runes enchants for the weapons.......

[Mirishka]

What do you mean "you disagree". I didn't express an opinion. Calling three abilities "loads" is just not correct.

Apart from that, I agree with you. The problem with Frost DKs doesn't necessarily come from a lack of abilities (you can spec into lots of uninteresting, shitty abilities like Frostscythe, Glacial Advance) but the lack of depth that was caused by the removal of the rune system (and the management thereof) and the removal of presences. Old Frost DK didn't use lots of rotational abilities apart from Frost Strike, Obliterate and Howling Blast but it derived some depth from rune management.



I mean, they named three things. One of them was being able to play 2h frost again. It doesn't really matter if they just give us the option to wear them if they can't be bothered to balance accordingly (which they haven't thus far).

Which is an absolutely pointless argument against 2H frost, because the game is (say it with me) never, ever going to be perfectly balanced.

The only way the game will be balanced is if all the classes play the exact same with the same rotations on the same cooldowns, just with different graphics. And I'm sorry but I'll take actual diversity in mechanics/flavor over 'Frost is Arms but with more ice FX' anyday.

If you're not in a world first guild, its absolutely silly that your blood pressure elevates over 2H frost doing 2% less potential damage than DW.

[Nerovar]

Which is an absolutely pointless argument against 2H frost, because the game is (say it with me) never, ever going to be perfectly balanced.

The only way the game will be balanced is if all the classes play the exact same with the same rotations on the same cooldowns, just with different graphics. And I'm sorry but I'll take actual diversity in mechanics/flavor over 'Frost is Arms but with more ice FX' anyday.

If you're not in a world first guild, its absolutely silly that your blood pressure elevates over 2H frost doing 2% less potential damage than DW.

What a weird rant. This wasn't "an argument against 2h frost". I love 2h frost and want it to be a viable playstyle. It's almost as if you didn't read my posts and merely assumed my position on the matter. We're not talking about some small % differences. We're talking about basically no adjustments that would make 2h viable. It's more like playing Arms warrior with sword and shield. Sure, you can technically do it to own the people obsessing over performance but... You know, what? Suit yourself.