2h Frost is back in Shadowlands!

[Bisque]

I am not sure of the whole "allow 2h weapons to have 2 runeforges" as the answer to bringing 2h to an acceptable level. It begs the question then , should blood and uh also get to use 2 runeforge enchants or is this a frost thing only? If I had to guess, at most maybe blizz wll nerf FC slightly because of its utter stranglehold on dps dks.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I am not sure of the whole "allow 2h weapons to have 2 runeforges" as the answer to bringing 2h to an acceptable level. It begs the question then , should blood and uh also get to use 2 runeforge enchants or is this a frost thing only? If I had to guess, at most maybe blizz wll nerf FC slightly because of its utter stranglehold on dps dks.

It should be a class feature. Obviously balance will need to be slightly adjusted, but at least it might give room for some different combinations at the end of the day instead of just having the one single best enchant (FC) you always put on. I mean they just added a bunch of runes, kinda sad that most of them won't be seeing any use.

If it were me, each rune of our resource pool would reflect one rune on the weapon, as that is kinda the class fantasy that got completely left in the dust.

[pinkz]

blizzard was nerfing and squishing the frost spec not only after MOP and then again at legion expac start, they gutted FDKs thru out WOD

frost DK had choice at WOD start 2H or DW, but during the expac i went into ashran BG and got destroyed by a DW FDK in a 1 vs 1 situation, my 2H was a PVP weapon which i had just bought days prior, had to BG more and get two 1Hs to DW. the gank by blizzard was on a patch or hotfix. they also ganked soul reaping two times in WOD and nerfed army of the dead to the point the army could not even kill a non-elite mob in tanaan. blizz set it up so FKDs used no longer used 2H, soul reaper, and AOD before the legion removal.

unless blizz also returns 2H passive talent to at least equal strength to DW, using a 2H will be cosmetic like it was second half of WOD

[chase_the_mofo]

I do believe 2h will be less RNG dependable but that's not going to happen. Everything is about item level, simple rotation and whether you use 2h or 2x1h will make no difference at all.

[kingarthas]

I do believe 2h will be less RNG dependable but that's not going to happen. Everything is about item level, simple rotation and whether you use 2h or 2x1h will make no difference at all.

With 2h you lose 1 rune and get less km proc. Even if same ilvl you lose dps

[Saltysquidoon]

I do believe 2h will be less RNG dependable but that's not going to happen. Everything is about item level, simple rotation and whether you use 2h or 2x1h will make no difference at all.

You literally need 38% crit to even start trying to break even with 2h compared to DW because of swing timers.

Unless 2h gets direct massive behind the scenes changes to how the spec works it's going to be the DoA rp spec it's almost always been.

[Super Kami Dende]

I mean, an easy change for lacking a rune could quite literally just have Runes give varying bonuses depending on Weapon. FC give twice the Str for 2H, or Razorice stack twice per application.

[kliffharry]

Just simply make it so you can have two runes on a two hander. Sure there will still be more KM procs with dual wield but sounds like a much easier way to balance it to a somewhat close enough level.

[tru]

So wraith walk... How you step into the shadowblands if your already there?

[Justpassing]

So wraith walk... How you step into the shadowblands if your already there?

We must go deeper.

[Varitok]

So wraith walk... How you step into the shadowblands if your already there?

Shadowlands' all the way down or you step into the real world.

[Kendros]

Not just blood and unholy why not give all classes double enchants. Runeforges are just our exclusive weapon enchants. Its not going to happen.

- - - Updated - - -

As it should be as ppl were screaming on forums "I JUST WANT TO RP AS ARTHAS, I DONT CARE ABOUT MUH DPS".

[kingarthas]

I believe, they won’t balance it. They only did this because if i main unholy or blood and want to change spec for fun or try it out. Not optimal but letting me able to use frost skills. If i decide to play dedicated frost then I have to use dw. If this is the case. This has a problem tho, if iam frost. i cant change spec to try unholy or blood for same reasons.

[Saltysquidoon]

If they aren't going to balance it (which looks more and more likely each day without a shitstorm) they shouldn't have sold it as one of the three 'new' features for frost, it should have been "oh and 2h is turned on for fun and rp".

At the same time, it makes perfect sense not to bother balancing it, not only would it be a massive amount of work dealing with KM swing timers, talents tied to swing timers and the rune forge issue. But the vast majority of the "I wanna be a badass 2h like arthas" crowd alternatively; don't play wow anymore, don't play a dk or don't play a dk where numbers matter.
Which explains the lack of a shitstorm, everybody who does play a dk or care about the numbers knows as is 2h will be DoA (38% crit to break even kekku) and blizzard has no idea with what to do about frost in the first place.

[FossilFree]

They should really give unholy a dual wield option now too. To me, the unholy screams fast attacks applying dots all around, not slow and lumbering. Frost is cold, it should be slow and lumbering (cold making you faster?? like... what?). Remember the old unholy presence where you got tons of haste and movement speed? That is how unholy should feel, creepily unnatural and super fast, like something animated by unholy magic (a ghost in a horror movie, undead in Game of Thrones, etc.).

[Absintheminded]

They should really give unholy a dual wield option now too. To me, the unholy screams fast attacks applying dots all around, not slow and lumbering. Frost is cold, it should be slow and lumbering (cold making you faster?? like... what?). Remember the old unholy presence where you got tons of haste and movement speed? That is how unholy should feel, creepily unnatural and super fast, like something animated by unholy magic (a ghost in a horror movie, undead in Game of Thrones, etc.).

Yes but if that's your argument then Blizz should start with fixing the DoTs theme before adding DW (which was never a thing to begin with, people dual wielding in Wrath were using a Frost / UH hybrid spec). But to your point, sure, why not. While we're at it, allow DKs to choose what spec to tank or dps with again. It's literally as simple as adding talents. No defensive rating to worry about, no hit, no expertise, not even presences. Just a talent that says you're a frost tank, or blood DPS, for example.

[Bisque]

Yes but if that's your argument then Blizz should start with fixing the DoTs theme before adding DW (which was never a thing to begin with, people dual wielding in Wrath were using a Frost / UH hybrid spec). But to your point, sure, why not. While we're at it, allow DKs to choose what spec to tank or dps with again. It's literally as simple as adding talents. No defensive rating to worry about, no hit, no expertise, not even presences. Just a talent that says you're a frost tank, or blood DPS, for example.

I mean if blizz had no interest in balance then sure it would be interesting to see all 3 specs able to dps or tank. But I think most people knew even back in wrath that there is no way blizz would be able to balance all 3 specs being able to dps and tank. Heck I am still doubting Blizz's ability to balance DW frosts, 2H frost and UH. Prove me wrong blizz, please prove me wrong!

[Absintheminded]

I mean if blizz had no interest in balance then sure it would be interesting to see all 3 specs able to dps or tank. But I think most people knew even back in wrath that there is no way blizz would be able to balance all 3 specs being able to dps and tank. Heck I am still doubting Blizz's ability to balance DW frosts, 2H frost and UH. Prove me wrong blizz, please prove me wrong!

Wrath and retail aren't even remotely similar, though. Spells shared across specs are already tuned individually. It's really just a matter of making a row of talents picking your role, for instance. Tank, petless DPS, DPS, as an example. Also, remember some talents already exist that give more than one ability or passive.

Edit: many of the things you could use are already in the game, blood pet spec could be worms or DRW, frost tank could use a buffed up perma frost, etc

[Syegfryed]

Wrath and retail aren't even remotely similar, though. Spells shared across specs are already tuned individually. It's really just a matter of making a row of talents picking your role, for instance. Tank, petless DPS, DPS, as an example. Also, remember some talents already exist that give more than one ability or passive.

Edit: many of the things you could use are already in the game, blood pet spec could be worms or DRW, frost tank could use a buffed up perma frost, etc

i kinda like this concept of "tank" and "dps" being the actual talent trees, and the specs being anything you like from those 2

but i imagine it would be a hell to balance

[Absintheminded]

i kinda like this concept of "tank" and "dps" being the actual talent trees, and the specs being anything you like from those 2

but i imagine it would be a hell to balance

A lot would just be carried over from one tree to the other. Like, of course unholys main strike would be scourge strike in all three variations. The main difference would just be a few spec specific talents that change based on the first selection you make.

Trust me, I've done loads of thinking about this. I'd redesign DK for free if I could solicit the idea to class designers.