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  1. #261
    I mean they did such a good job of balancing just dw and keeping it relevant... Don't think anyone expects more than that. It doesn't scale well just like ww.
    "I'm Tru @ w/e I do" ~ TM

  2. #262
    The Lightbringer docterfreeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kendros View Post
    Nah most of those ppl wanted to carry a big 2 hander and they were literally screaming "IDC ABOUT BALANCE I JUST WANT O BE ARTHAS".
    Yes true but 2 hander naturaly hit harder on all melee abilities cause weapon damage was in the equation and not just for frost any class that could wield both kind of weapons the two hander was the go to for pvp , because in pvp bursty>dps, and with a 2hander you would have less miss hits. And pvp is irrelevant, once that was removed to be one weapon only and you didnt have a second option was just a matter of balancing that one spec or "playstyle" if you will for pvp instead of 2 subspecs.
    Overall 2 hander frost was garbage for the majority of its existence.
    If PvP is irrelevant then so is raiding



    Just let me have a PvP talent (which isn't available in any sort of instanced PvE, mind you) and you won't have to worry about the scary arthas cosplayers anymore.

    Also balance =/= playstyle.
    Last edited by docterfreeze; 2020-05-07 at 08:12 AM.

  3. #263
    Dreadlord bloodkin's Avatar
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    I think that adjusting proc rates depending on weapon setup could help a lot (or let it scale with swing timer (faster procrate with slowe swings)

    And maybe let 2h have a special rune with rune of the fallen crusader + razorice or two enchants.

    Problem is, I don't expect blizz to be able to scale it good enough within one xpac, so it will most likely be pretty bad late in the xpac
    'Something's awry.' -Duhgan 'Bel' beltayn

    'A Man choses, a Slave obeys.' -Andrew Rayn

  4. #264
    So who's excited for weapon shifting macros to line hysteria up with the BoS window? That's not degenerate gameplay at all.

  5. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    So who's excited for weapon shifting macros to line hysteria up with the BoS window? That's not degenerate gameplay at all.
    It's nothing that hasn't happened before already. Combat rogues used to do it all the time prior to Legion. Honestly, the gains would be minimal, and the trouble of switching weapons and losing a global might not be worth it. Blizzard will find a way to quell that quickly if it becomes a thing in any case.

  6. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by docterfreeze View Post
    If PvP is irrelevant then so is raiding



    Just let me have a PvP talent (which isn't available in any sort of instanced PvE, mind you) and you won't have to worry about the scary arthas cosplayers anymore.

    Also balance =/= playstyle.
    I guess I must be the only one who was enjoying the 2H playstyle for what it was in both PvE and PvP then. I appreciate it's a completely different discussion, but since legion every time I played a character in PvE in retail I felt I am back levelling because my characters were incomplete due to the PvP talents. As such, it would be a non-starter for me if the 2H playstyle is only available in PvP, even though I understand it is better than nothing.

  7. #267
    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    I guess I must be the only one who was enjoying the 2H playstyle for what it was in both PvE and PvP then. I appreciate it's a completely different discussion, but since legion every time I played a character in PvE in retail I felt I am back levelling because my characters were incomplete due to the PvP talents. As such, it would be a non-starter for me if the 2H playstyle is only available in PvP, even though I understand it is better than nothing.
    No you're not the only one. After they took away blood dps, I went frost and only played 2H until Legion when I decided to just switch to ret.

    Yes, it was not exactly desirable spec, but I enjoyed it and in the tier of content I was doing normal/heroic and just some battlegrounds, I've seen people with bis gear doing worse than a half blind tank (true story), not defending a "bad" spec, but just thinking...

    Outside of visual gimping, making frost DK's fight with 2 bluish toothpicks, they changed how spec worked with breath especially and ever since launch of Wrath DK's lost more than gained and I can't see how gaining back a way people liked to play is making some infuriated here.
    Quote Originally Posted by SourceOfInfection View Post
    Now instead of being pissed off at four people at a time, I can be pissed off at TWENTY FOUR people at a time. That's called efficiency, my little enchiladas.

  8. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Fkiolaris View Post
    I guess I must be the only one who was enjoying the 2H playstyle for what it was in both PvE and PvP then. I appreciate it's a completely different discussion, but since legion every time I played a character in PvE in retail I felt I am back levelling because my characters were incomplete due to the PvP talents. As such, it would be a non-starter for me if the 2H playstyle is only available in PvP, even though I understand it is better than nothing.
    I bring it up in nearly every DK thread that talks about previous versions being better, but with so many stats being removed and with talents being completely movable between specs, there's no reason not to allow complete freedom between DW/2H and tank/DPS for each.

  9. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascius View Post
    No you're not the only one. After they took away blood dps, I went frost and only played 2H until Legion when I decided to just switch to ret.

    Yes, it was not exactly desirable spec, but I enjoyed it and in the tier of content I was doing normal/heroic and just some battlegrounds, I've seen people with bis gear doing worse than a half blind tank (true story), not defending a "bad" spec, but just thinking...

    Outside of visual gimping, making frost DK's fight with 2 bluish toothpicks, they changed how spec worked with breath especially and ever since launch of Wrath DK's lost more than gained and I can't see how gaining back a way people liked to play is making some infuriated here.
    I don't really think it's people being infuriated, but rather why waste time on bringing back 2h frost when frost in generally is not in the greatest spot i.e... frost has core issues, why not fix those issues instead of bringing back 2h frost. Now obviously it is still very, very early alpha and I am confident at some point we will see some attempt in balancing 2h frost and dw, whether that is bringing back might of the frozen waste, reworking how killing machine works etc... something, blizz will do something (I hope). But until that "something" is done, bringing back 2h (at least in its current state) is a joke unless we brought back 2h frost just only for "I can look like Arthas".

  10. #270
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascius View Post
    Outside of visual gimping, making frost DK's fight with 2 bluish toothpicks, they changed how spec worked with breath especially and ever since launch of Wrath DK's lost more than gained and I can't see how gaining back a way people liked to play is making some infuriated here.
    No one is infuriated that others are happy. That's just bullshit strawmanning.

    People are, however, concerned, if not annoyed, that Blizzard is going back to a design that has a horrible track record, has cascading problems for the whole spec (possibly class if they still adhere to the balancing within the class idea), and as a base design is incredibly complicated, and frankly unrealistic. The idea of sub-specs was rightly dropped, because it just doesn't work trying to get two playstyles/priorities/designs out of one set of abilities without one overshadowing the other, scaling being a nightmare to balance each patch due to differences, etc; and those just the general design issues, not mentioning some of our specific spec issues like Razorice, or Killing Machine. It just doesn't work. We're watching Blizzard set themselves up to fail, and Frost is going to go down with that failure. That is what people are infuriated about.

    But by all means, continue to play the victim that you are the ones under attack while still taking jabs at dual-wield, because you couldn't even make this post without making that toothpick dig.

  11. #271
    I think they are going to make all rune forges unique and or allow 2 of them on a 2hander or make them weapon imbue buffs that are temporary like shaman have and allow 2 to be active. Not many other ways around it within the confines of their current design systems.
    Super Mario Maker 2: Maker ID 8B7-CTF-NMG

    - let's get real everyone, classic needs #somechanges get over it.

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