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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    First of all, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about in M+, unholy is only good on massive MDI meme pulls because its aoe triple dips on itself and scales exponent with number of adds.
    Back in reality, DH is the most popular m+ melee by a mile (as in 10% more then the next used spec and is usage only goes up as you increase key difficulty. In fact, at all relevant key levels (from 15 to 20+) unholy remains consistently the 5th most used spec. So in reality havoc is the best melee dps in M+

    In PvP every single tier and comp list has: Muti and WW as S tier and Unholy and Havok as A tier. I don't PvP but it doesn't exactly look like Havok is hurting their either.

    Like I previously said in Ny'alotha Havoc is at worst second-best melee dps spec (behind warriors).

    That means (read in the light most favourable to you) Havoc is: The best (by lightyears) melee spec in M+; The second-best melee spec in a raid; and; The fourth best melee spec in PvP.
    My heart goes out to you man havoc is in such a rough place right now... I bet all the ret pallies, sub rogues, enhancement shamans, survival hunters and feral druids are sending their best wishes and hoping you're back on top soon.
    lmao, of course Havoc usage exceeds other classes, but that's because of chaos brand to prop up the other DPS classes, not for the DPS of its own. And it's not just massive MDI pulls, unholy beats Havoc in sustained aoe on single and even 2 pack pulls.

    Havoc is not in a rough spot, but neither is DK let alone rogue with their ridiculous shroud of concealment and utility making them among the most stacked class in raids.

    I don't even main Havoc (boring as fuck one dimensional 2-3 button spec); I main unholy DK, so you can spare me your passive aggressive bitch ass sneering.

  2. #202
    CHaos Brand still remains in Shadowlands?

  3. #203
    Unbound Chaos is coming back..........my favorite thing of all time.......is back.
    wtf

  4. #204
    Some rewording of the Fury of the Illidari tooltip could suggest it's coming back aswell.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    when i learned anythin from mmo-c then it is that shit is only bad when the horde does it
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Baine is like the most unlikeable character you are supposed to like.

  5. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by Sangris View Post
    Some rewording of the Fury of the Illidari tooltip could suggest it's coming back aswell.
    oh oh oh oh...at last i know what class ill be playin in SL
    Great news

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    oh oh oh oh...at last i know what class ill be playin in SL
    Great news
    Well, I'm not saying it's definitely returning, but they changed the tooltip from spinning the Twinblades of the Deceiver to spinning some Demonic Glaives, which would be pointless since the ability isn't in the game anymore anyway, which would make the tooltip change obsolete.
    Last edited by Sangris; 2020-07-02 at 12:31 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nnyco View Post
    when i learned anythin from mmo-c then it is that shit is only bad when the horde does it
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Baine is like the most unlikeable character you are supposed to like.

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Sangris View Post
    Some rewording of the Fury of the Illidari tooltip could suggest it's coming back aswell.
    i hope i hope i hope

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by Sangris View Post
    Well' Im not saying it's definitely returning, but they changed the tooltip from spinning the Twinblades of the Deceiver to spinning some Demonic Glaives, which would be pointless since the ability isn't in the game anymore anyway, which would make the tooltip change obsolete.
    maybe a legendary effect? Either way I want them back.
    For the Alliance, and for Azeroth!

  9. #209
    Does anyone else feel like they got one thing right and then totally messed up something else? Its great that immo aura is generating fury again, but not really happy with the Eyebeam CD change from Soul Fragments.

  10. #210
    RIP DH, the purge is just starting

    What class will you reroll ?
    Last edited by Kleym; 2020-07-02 at 09:22 AM.

  11. #211
    None! I like the changes. Hope they can read a little more, and put Felblade with chaos damage.

  12. #212
    Sorry for going off topic but holy fuck how dead is this forum? Pretty big changes on DH and it’s days later the discussion starts in a thread not bumped since may.

    Seems this way on most of the forum, MMO-Champ has never been so barren.

  13. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Castia View Post
    Sorry for going off topic but holy fuck how dead is this forum? Pretty big changes on DH and it’s days later the discussion starts in a thread not bumped since may.

    Seems this way on most of the forum, MMO-Champ has never been so barren.
    I feel like that probably has a lot to do with how accessible and useful Discord is as an alternative.

    It would be nice if they would communicate more and listen more to the DH community considering how barren the class was in legion with legendaries or the artifact and now they’re again trying to force clunky play styles that no one enjoys.

  14. #214
    You want my hot take(as someone that's done some muck around m+ pushing on a DH)

    I doubt the cycle of hatred buff will fix the first blood problem and even if it does it's just numbers and its all very boring.

    Insatiable hunger is a nice buff so the talent isn't just a meme but it doesn't change that demon blades existing is bad for the spec and bad for the game, and again it's just so boring.

    Burning hatred just lazy, they clearly can't even be bothered to code in a dot or a debuff or anything. It could gen 5 extra fury or 500 extra fury you're still always just going to press it on CD (basically).

    Unbound Chaos is at least not boring but is seems really unintuitive and super restrictive? Why is it reliant on immo aura when the other two talents just stand on their own?

    None of these changes on their own really address the problem that the spec has nothing that makes it special, it's just a basic builder spender. Why is demonic not baseline since meta is literally the marquee 'feature' of the spec? Why is felblade not baseline since the proc is the one option the spec has to wake you up out of just building and spending till the end of time?

  15. #215
    Not impressed with these changes. Nerfing insatiable hunger to make cycle but just means that demonic is even more crippled than it already was when comparing SL to BFA. Stuff like unbound chaos may increase the skill-cap to some degree, but imo like Salty said above tying it to immo just seems really clunky and unintuitive. Plus this may lead to some degenerate gameplay like canceling fel-rush again just so your unbound chaos will hit reliably.

    Other issues are still in the spec as well. Nemesis still exists, just replace it with chaos blades. Fel-blade and demon blades should just be merged into one ability and have two charges. Momentum looks like it's gonna be the best talent, which is problematic, and hurts Havoc's mobility.

  16. #216
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    After looking at what they just did, its a step in the right direction... butttt they still havent fixed the major problems with our talents.

    If we get back fury of the illidari, great, that will give us another button to press... but on a cd. The problem, tho, people forget that the artifact spell also had another artifact power to make it do big numbers (do all ur chaos aoe during that window to make a big boom) and that was never baked into the spell. It was an artifact trait.

    cycle of hatred might be fine... but it would be garbage if it was best. What they need to do is simply make first blood baseline. Its been the best talent since legion, and will still be.

    But like others haven pointed out, there are still quite a few things that they havent even baselined or fucked off with (nemesis is a dead talent to me)

  17. #217
    immo aura generatiing some fury baseline is good. Insatiable hunger change is also nice , i might pick it for the start of the xpac where haste is low.

    i would like the new cycle , if it wasn't in the same row as first blood. Now i have to choose between more meta uptime or more blade dance's beautiful animation in my rotation.

    They didn't mention Fury of the illidari in their post , so i wouldn't count on it , unles it come from a legendary effect ?

  18. #218
    This video sums it up quite nicely. And while I do not agree with all the initial worries I think it is one step forward and two backwards with these changes overall.


    The question is how much time devs have to think it over and polish it out because not everything can be saved with legendaries when spec itself is just unfinished.

  19. #219
    Got beta today copied my dh tested for 15 quit playing DH blizzard hates fun.

  20. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by jediknight12 View Post
    Got beta today copied my dh tested for 15 quit playing DH blizzard hates fun.
    I have to say, I too am not enjoying Shadowlands as a DH after just a few minutes of playing. Copied over my main this morning and found that Demon's Bite/Blade has become a passive so I'm left with no filler ability when everything else is on cooldown. Am I missing something here? I checked my spellbook and have everything available on my bars

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