DH Havoc Shadowlands Class Update - Thats it????

[Musta]

I'm just gonna copy a line from the class preview:

"This isn’t meant to be a comprehensive list of updates—these changes represent a starting point for a dialogue with the community—but this should give you a good overview of what to expect."

So you know, it's not the final list. If you get alpha/beta, give them the feedback.

Oh i will. I spend BFA in its entirety writing constructive feedback about DHs.

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Idk maybe cause it is FUCKING ALPHA and that they're releasing more information as time goes on.

BFA wants a word with you.

[Clozer]

You want changes for the sake of changes. Your class plays pretty damn good - you all cry for a change 'cause you are bored of playing it for multiple years. In the end, you wished you didn't want changes.

[Tech614]

Vengeance changes are pretty significant. Havoc changes are minimal but it's probably the most played spec in the game right now so umm? What should they do to it? lol.

[Krekal]

What is happening? all classes are getting major changes and we got 1 paragraph of bullshit. Dont get me wrong i like IA being baseline but.. wheres the rest of the information? An they AGAIN are trying to force a dps window skill.

Whats going on?

Demonhunters are imo the best designed class, maybe they dont want to fuck it up

[AlmightyGerkin]

Oh i will. I spend BFA in its entirety writing constructive feedback about DHs.

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BFA wants a word with you.

I know the whole bfa debacle. Give blizzard the benefit of the doubt that they’ve learned in someway what they did in bfa was bad. Releasing it in small segments to get more in depth testing. Knocking g on the class when alpha has left t even been released. Maybe if it was beta opinion would differ but their isn’t an ability for the night fae or the necrolords can’t remember.

[dlhak]

What is happening? all classes are getting major changes and we got 1 paragraph of bullshit. Dont get me wrong i like IA being baseline but.. wheres the rest of the information? An they AGAIN are trying to force a dps window skill.

Whats going on?

Remember when they told us they were working on Demon Blades talent in patch 7.1 ?

yeah, if they don't have time to work on a talent I don't think they will have time to work on a new spec, or add new abilities.

[Evaddon]

Honestly, I'm fine with not seeing to many changes for the baseline of class and specializations I would rather see a talent tree overhaul, most of our talents and pretty dogshit..so until we see the actual talents that are getting removed,replaced, or dramatically changed I'll hold my thoughts!

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Demonhunters are imo the best designed class, maybe they dont want to fuck it up

This. We are more then okay right now, so if they keep it "same-y" I won't have to many complaints! All I can say is...an additional single target fury dump?!?!?!

[Bane-Thunder-God]

They could unprune DH`s third spec.

HAhahahaha this had me crackingggggg

I do wonder when we get to see a 3rd spec for DH....

But my main Ret is looking good going into shadowlands

[Budong]

Considering how other classes have "benefited" from Blizzard paying attention to them, you guys might want to just stfu and be glad they think you're fine.

[Cronovey]

Maybe I'm looking through rose-tinted glasses, But i remember really enjoying Momentum in EN. Atually having to track your momentum, reseting your dashes with blur, made for interesting game-play decisions on the fly, Positioning was important, It honestly just felt fun and interesting to play, where as now, all i'm doing is spamming EB/BD off cd, dumping fury, and picking up orbs.

Using what should be utility abilities like Fel Rush, Vengeful Retreat, and Blur to do offensive damage is bad design. If there's incoming burst damage, just by nature of having Momentum at all I lose DPS if I save a CD like Blur for it. If I don't I'm adding extra stress to my healers by not using my defensive abilities for what they were originally designed for.

Was it different? Sure, I'll concede that any day. It seemed like a novel idea at first and was relatively well-liked at the time because Fel Rush did enough damage to warrant using during open globals with Demon Blades specced anyways. The problem is that it took what was supposed to be an agile, mobile class and reduced them to pooling Fury, pressing Fel Rush, and then dumping everything all at once. It was also incredibly difficult to do properly in M+ dungeons because of the risk of pulling extra targets in the dungeon and on weeks with things like Teeming or Bolstering, practically a death sentence for your group.

I'd much rather see Momentum in the form of something still related to the definition of the word like spending a certain amount of Fury over X seconds proccing it or something like that which would require a lot more planning on how to rebuild Fury quickly or have it buff your filler damage spamming Demon's Bite and managing it with other cooldowns like Eye Beam which would still require planning and allow player skill to be expressed without requiring you to use defensive and movement abilities to augment your DPS outside of things like staying in range of your targets.

[Musta]

Remember when they told us they were working on Demon Blades talent in patch 7.1 ?

yeah, if they don't have time to work on a talent I don't think they will have time to work on a new spec, or add new abilities.

Completely this.

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I know the whole bfa debacle. Give blizzard the benefit of the doubt that they’ve learned in someway what they did in bfa was bad. Releasing it in small segments to get more in depth testing. Knocking g on the class when alpha has left t even been released. Maybe if it was beta opinion would differ but their isn’t an ability for the night fae or the necrolords can’t remember.

I gave them the benefit of the doubt after wod.

[Bareno]

Well datamining shit is coming out, we got some other unlisted nerfs.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=311908/...8#demon-hunter

M̶a̶i̶n̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶B̶D̶ ̶c̶o̶o̶l̶d̶o̶w̶n̶ ̶g̶o̶e̶s̶ ̶f̶r̶o̶m̶ ̶9̶ ̶s̶e̶c̶o̶n̶d̶s̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶1̶5̶ ̶s̶e̶c̶o̶n̶d̶s̶ (Nevermind, level perk at 22 reduces it back down to a 9 second CD), has cap on amount of people it can hit
Chaos strike fury refund is down to 20%, from 40%
Meta CD changed from a 4 min to 5 minute, has chaotic transformation trait built in.

[schwarzkopf]

Yep that's it, they announced the final for everything - Shadowlands will be out next week because obviously everything is totally finished.

[Bareno]

Havoc Specalization has an entry that reduces blade dance by 6 seconds.

All AoE abilities have had their targets capped between 5 and 8. Blade dance is on the low end (eg mages Blizzard is at 8) but its not the death of the spec by any means.

The CD change on Meta is remains to be seen how much itll matter, considering Cycle of Hatred reduces Meta CD by 4 seconds rather than 3. While Cycle of Hatred will trigger slightly less often now that Chaos Strikes refund is 20%, it may work out alright. There is also an entry under Havoc Specalization that says Meta grants an additional 25% haste for its duration which may account for the increased CD.

I'll reserve judgement until I have had the chance to test the changes.

Yeah your right, I heard about a possible level perk at 22 that reduces it back down to 9 seconds, sounds fair.

[Puzzony]

"While Cycle of Hatred will trigger slightly less often now that Chaos Strikes refund is 20%,"
"slightly" less? 40% chance reduced to 20%, thats a 50% nerf.

[Manu9]

I'm just gonna copy a line from the class preview:

"This isn’t meant to be a comprehensive list of updates—these changes represent a starting point for a dialogue with the community—but this should give you a good overview of what to expect."

So you know, it's not the final list. If you get alpha/beta, give them the feedback.

Nope nope, that's what everyone says every time, then we get super shafted.
It's like people don't learn, this literally happens every beta.
Honestly I'm happy they are bringing old Enha back because DHs look lackluster compared to other classes atm.
Vengeance looks good, but Havoc does not.

[OokOok]

Once FG is no longer a thing, unless they make it baseline, DH's will drop if these are the only changes. They don't need to nerf the class they just need to wait for azerite to not be a thing and it will nerf the class all on it's own.

DH is one of the few classes that are make or break by their azerite. Having 3 FG is huge, but a outlaw rogue not having 3 DS traits isn't even noticeable.

[Vpuh]

Havoc Specalization has an entry that reduces blade dance by 6 seconds.

All AoE abilities have had their targets capped between 5 and 8. Blade dance is on the low end (eg mages Blizzard is at 8) but its not the death of the spec by any means.

The CD change on Meta is remains to be seen how much itll matter, considering Cycle of Hatred reduces Meta CD by 4 seconds rather than 3. While Cycle of Hatred will trigger slightly less often now that Chaos Strikes refund is 20%, it may work out alright. There is also an entry under Havoc Specalization that says Meta grants an additional 25% haste for its duration which may account for the increased CD.

I'll reserve judgement until I have had the chance to test the changes.

Stop panic here. They nerfed almost all basic abilities, but return its powers to normal state via lvling perks. Like other said basic Meta CD is 5 min, but lvling perk https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/spel.../metamorphosis reduced it to 4min, basic CS refund chance 20%, but its increased to 40% via perk https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/spel...3/chaos-strike and etc

Explanation from wowhead:
Keep in mind that while many abilities appear to be nerfed, there are many new spells which restore the original functionality, resulting in no change at max level. These appear to be leveling perks, in order to give players a better sense of progression as they level from 1-60 in the post-squish world of Shadowlands. A common complaint in the past has been the too frequent gaps between learning new spells or talents, and these changes will help introduce players to their abilities, rather than learning an ability with 3 different spells effects from the get go.

[Kathranis]

Stop panic here. They nerfed almost all basic abilities, but return its powers to normal state via lvling perks. Like other said basic Meta CD is 5 min, but lvling perk https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/spel.../metamorphosis reduced it to 4min, basic CS refund chance 20%, but its increased to 40% via perk https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/spel...3/chaos-strike and etc

Explanation from wowhead:
Keep in mind that while many abilities appear to be nerfed, there are many new spells which restore the original functionality, resulting in no change at max level. These appear to be leveling perks, in order to give players a better sense of progression as they level from 1-60 in the post-squish world of Shadowlands. A common complaint in the past has been the too frequent gaps between learning new spells or talents, and these changes will help introduce players to their abilities, rather than learning an ability with 3 different spells effects from the get go.

Yeah, keep in mind that DH and DK are being reworked to start at level 10, IIRC, so they need to have more of an ability progression than they did previously.

[Sangris]

Stop panic here. They nerfed almost all basic abilities, but return its powers to normal state via lvling perks. Like other said basic Meta CD is 5 min, but lvling perk https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/spel.../metamorphosis reduced it to 4min, basic CS refund chance 20%, but its increased to 40% via perk https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/spel...3/chaos-strike and etc

Explanation from wowhead:
Keep in mind that while many abilities appear to be nerfed, there are many new spells which restore the original functionality, resulting in no change at max level. These appear to be leveling perks, in order to give players a better sense of progression as they level from 1-60 in the post-squish world of Shadowlands. A common complaint in the past has been the too frequent gaps between learning new spells or talents, and these changes will help introduce players to their abilities, rather than learning an ability with 3 different spells effects from the get go.

Exactly this. Why would they nerf everything and introduce passives that restore them to their original funtionality anyway? Because since Demon Hunters and Death Knights start at level 10 now they need to have more leveling progression, the same with other classes. I don't get how that's so hard to grasp for some people.