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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Oturanboa View Post
    - Turns your offhand auto attacks into fire damage (basicly a lot of armor penetration only for offhand auto attack)
    - Gives all your attacks some armor penetration
    - Gives extra %5 crit chance to fire attacks
    - Gives extra %1 crit chance to all attacks
    - Gives leech? Please? yeah unlikely
    Put Feral Lunge base line, swap the talent for Flametongue Weapon to give a leech effect, ‘cauterising’ a given % of wounds based off missing health, and have it on a PPM so it isn’t really OP as we get knee deep in haste (haste only effects it while it’s procced).

    Something like that would be nice for some passive heals and would get you a little more excited when FT procs.

  2. #182
    Flametongue procs everytime you swing it's not on chance.

    I would like to get rid of that miniscule damage that doesn't mean anything. Which siphons power from other abilities. %5 of all your dps in shadowlands atm. And fill your screen with boring low damage disappointment.

    The more i think about it, making it augment another ability seems better and better.

  3. #183
    Quality game design is not actually the point of these changes, as they were in previous expansions. They're second guessing all that stuff. Their goal is to return to the good ol' days, to "make WoW great again". Unpruning is the end goal in of itself, returning these abilities to what they were in classic without examining whether that's a good idea. Classic was successful and the developers believe that making the live game more like it will make live WoW more popular. They're wrong in that, obviously, but that is what they believe.

    That's why Windfury Weapon is now a buff you need to recast every half-hour instead of simply being a passive effect. Does it make any sense? Is it necessary? Do we really need more keybinds? Isn't that just busywork? They do not care about the answers to any of those questions. That's how it worked in classic, and that's good enough for them.

    Now in the case of Windfury Weapon I don't really care all that much. Sure it's stupid, and it's a step back, and they shouldn't make that change, but I'll just macro it into my self-buff castsequence macro with a weakaura to remind me to keep it up. Not a huge deal. Windfury Totem and Healing Stream Totem on the other hand, we'll have to hit those buttons every single pull. That sucks hardcore.
    Last edited by Schizoide; 2020-06-20 at 08:39 PM.

  4. #184
    I'm not that pessimistic. Some enhancement alpha footage shows some promise about hailstorm gameplay. Makes me excited. Stormstrike and lava lash seems to do decent damage. What really gives me hope is number of damage sources are reduced nicely. We may have nice burst in shadowlands. If only flametongue was removed too. Or baked into some utility.

    Ofc i don't expect to be on the level of a rogue or Dh like... ever. But it seems to be much better than BFA. If they don't leave us behind on numbers that is.

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreigar View Post
    - Bloatwise, remember WoTLK, where we basically were gcd locked, dont wat to go back to that
    I loved that, Windfury proc lightning bolt in a loop!

  6. #186
    We have things like:

    earthbind totem
    capacitor totem
    windrush
    purge
    feral spirit etc...

    Most important thing is our only defensive capability is self heals. Which stops you from damaging. Other classes just passively gets it while you have to sacrefice gcd for it.

    Nearly none of these worth the gcd when you re getting bashed. Or they just punish you by lowering dps in a mythic+
    Either these cooldowns must be turned into something dealing solid damage (unlikely) or we need those gaps in our rotation. Specially for healing. That's also why we need charges for stormstrike.
    Last edited by Oturanboa; 2020-06-22 at 11:06 AM.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Oturanboa View Post
    We have things like:

    earthbind totem
    capacitor totem
    windrush
    purge
    feral spirit etc...

    Most important thing is our only defensive capability is self heals. Which stops you from damaging. Other classes just passively gets it while you have to sacrefice gcd for it.

    Nearly none of these worth the gcd when you re getting bashed. Or they just punish you by lowering dps in a mythic+
    Either these cooldowns must be turned into something dealing solid damage (unlikely) or we need those gaps in our rotation. Specially for healing. That's also why we need charges for stormstrike.
    I often think they still try to balance enhancement against Ret paladin. Maelstrom Weapons when it first came out was very reminiscent of Holy Power, utilizing a pseudo combo point system that had the option to augment abilities, or cast a big heal (self or otherwise). The problem I see when making this comparison is that mail is squishier than plate (ret is more durable in melee), and the general lack of defensive cooldowns Enhancement has. Back in the first incarnation, and I believe well into the lifespan of maelstrom weapons, Shaman also had the glyphed stoneclaw totem for a personal bubble asborb, healing from feral spirit, and shamanistic rage. These were all pruned, with the glyphed stoneclaw totem becoming earthen bulwark and getting removed from Enh, healing removed from feral spirit, and sham rage disappearing. Out only defensives became the 50% movement reduction Astral Shift and self-heals off maelstrom. Meanwhile. comparing to Ret who can use holy power for word of glory on themselves, still has access to an on-demand stun with no delay, a damage reduction bubble, lay on hands for a full lifebar heal, as well as a full immunity cooldown.

    If enhance even had one of these things, it'd be in a much better position for survival. I personally think Earthen Bulwark should be baseline for shaman, as it fits the totem aspect of the class. Then augment it via spec. For Elemental/Enhancement it is a personal shield cooldown, and for Restoration it affects the entire group as a group defensive cooldown. Or, bring back Stoneskin Totem as a personal cooldown, and have it do a personal shield for Enhancement instead of straight damage reduction.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Oturanboa View Post
    We have things like:

    earthbind totem
    capacitor totem
    windrush
    purge
    feral spirit etc...

    Most important thing is our only defensive capability is self heals. Which stops you from damaging. Other classes just passively gets it while you have to sacrefice gcd for it.

    Nearly none of these worth the gcd when you re getting bashed. Or they just punish you by lowering dps in a mythic+
    Either these cooldowns must be turned into something dealing solid damage (unlikely) or we need those gaps in our rotation. Specially for healing. That's also why we need charges for stormstrike.
    I often think they still try to balance enhancement against Ret paladin. Maelstrom Weapons when it first came out was very reminiscent of Holy Power, utilizing a pseudo combo point system that had the option to augment abilities, or cast a big heal (self or otherwise). The problem I see when making this comparison is that mail is squishier than plate (ret is more durable in melee), and the general lack of defensive cooldowns Enhancement has. Back in the first incarnation, and I believe well into the lifespan of maelstrom weapons, Shaman also had the glyphed stoneclaw totem for a personal bubble asborb, healing from feral spirit, and shamanistic rage. These were all pruned, with the glyphed stoneclaw totem becoming earthen bulwark and getting removed from Enh, healing removed from feral spirit, and sham rage disappearing. Out only defensives became the 50% movement reduction Astral Shift and self-heals off maelstrom. Meanwhile. comparing to Ret who can use holy power for word of glory on themselves, still has access to an on-demand stun with no delay, a damage reduction bubble, lay on hands for a full lifebar heal, as well as a full immunity cooldown.

    If enhance even had one of these things, it'd be in a much better position for survival. I personally think Earthen Bulwark should be baseline for shaman, as it fits the totem aspect of the class. Then augment it via spec. For Elemental/Enhancement it is a personal shield cooldown, and for Restoration it affects the entire group as a group defensive cooldown. Or, bring back Stoneskin Totem as a personal cooldown, and have it do a personal shield for Enhancement instead of straight damage reduction.

    Edit: In my ideal enhancement world the spec would operate like this:

    Lava lash reworked to no longer require an off-hand weapon. It is instead a melee range spell decoupled from weapon dmg and instead using atk pwr/spell pwr % with the visual of summong a lava axe that lashes out at your enemy for fire damage. Uncoupling this ability from the off-hand allows for Enhance to finally operate as 2h or Dual-Wielding with the proper balance.

    2h weapon viability via Stormstrike, Windfury, and the new Lava Lash melee spell. To offset the damage and burst different of 2h Windfury vs dual-wielding, increase flametongue's off-hand damage to be a meaningful sustained comparison to 2h Windfurie's burst damage. Since flametongue will not be used for 2h, this is the appropriate tuning knob while also maintainign the strong burst 2h vs sustained dual-wielding niche of each weapons.

    Add 2nd personal cooldown (similar to the old Shamanistic Rage, without the mana regen) - name it Stoneskin in honor of Stoneskin Totem - Ethereal Form is ridiculous that it only works on physical damage. you are unable to attack, and reduces your movement speed by 50%. Paladin bubble says hello...at full immunity, attacking, and no speed reduction. Also, our other defensives are self-heals, and tied to ghost wolf which also prevents us from attacking.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Oturanboa View Post
    We have things like:

    earthbind totem
    capacitor totem
    windrush
    purge
    feral spirit etc...

    Most important thing is our only defensive capability is self heals. Which stops you from damaging. Other classes just passively gets it while you have to sacrefice gcd for it.

    Nearly none of these worth the gcd when you re getting bashed. Or they just punish you by lowering dps in a mythic+
    Either these cooldowns must be turned into something dealing solid damage (unlikely) or we need those gaps in our rotation. Specially for healing. That's also why we need charges for stormstrike.
    I often think they still try to balance enhancement against Ret paladin. Maelstrom Weapons when it first came out was very reminiscent of Holy Power, utilizing a pseudo combo point system that had the option to augment abilities, or cast a big heal (self or otherwise). The problem I see when making this comparison is that mail is squishier than plate (ret is more durable in melee), and the general lack of defensive cooldowns Enhancement has. Back in the first incarnation, and I believe well into the lifespan of maelstrom weapons, Shaman also had the glyphed stoneclaw totem for a personal bubble asborb, healing from feral spirit, and shamanistic rage. These were all pruned, with the glyphed stoneclaw totem becoming earthen bulwark and getting removed from Enh, healing removed from feral spirit, and sham rage disappearing. Out only defensives became the 50% movement reduction Astral Shift and self-heals off maelstrom. Meanwhile. comparing to Ret who can use holy power for word of glory on themselves, still has access to an on-demand stun with no delay, a damage reduction bubble, lay on hands for a full lifebar heal, as well as a full immunity cooldown.

    If enhance even had one of these things, it'd be in a much better position for survival. I personally think Earthen Bulwark should be baseline for shaman, as it fits the totem aspect of the class. Then augment it via spec. For Elemental/Enhancement it is a personal shield cooldown, and for Restoration it affects the entire group as a group defensive cooldown. Or, bring back Stoneskin Totem as a personal cooldown, and have it do a personal shield for Enhancement instead of straight damage reduction.

    Edit: In my ideal enhancement world the spec would operate like this:

    Lava lash reworked to no longer require an off-hand weapon. It is instead a melee range spell decoupled from weapon dmg and instead using atk pwr/spell pwr % with the visual of summong a lava axe that lashes out at your enemy for fire damage. Uncoupling this ability from the off-hand allows for Enhance to finally operate as 2h or Dual-Wielding with the proper balance.

    2h weapon viability via Stormstrike, Windfury, and the new Lava Lash melee spell. To offset the damage and burst different of 2h Windfury vs dual-wielding, increase flametongue's off-hand damage to be a meaningful sustained comparison to 2h Windfurie's burst damage. Since flametongue will not be used for 2h, this is the appropriate tuning knob while also maintainign the strong burst 2h vs sustained dual-wielding niche of each weapons.

    Add 2nd personal cooldown (similar to the old Shamanistic Rage, without the mana regen) - name it Stoneskin in honor of Stoneskin Totem - Ethereal Form is ridiculous that it only works on physical damage. you are unable to attack, and reduces your movement speed by 50%. Paladin bubble says hello...at full immunity, attacking, and no speed reduction. Also, our other defensives are self-heals, and tied to ghost wolf which also prevents us from attacking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelthon
    do i wanting my cat come the expansion due to signifying a reroll fresh scratch the night elf mage?

  8. #188
    This just dropped, supposed to be Legendary effects. What you guys think about it ? The last one looks nice to me :

    Doom Winds - Dropping Windfury Totem grants you 100% inceased chance to gain Windfury Weapon for 8 sec. This can only occur once every 1 min.
    Inspired by: Legion Artifact Weapon ability Doom Winds

    Primal Lava Actuators - Each time Flame Shock deals Periodic damage, increase the damage of your next Lava Lash by 10% and reduce the cooldown of Lava Lash by 0.5 sec.
    Inspired by: Shaman T16 Enhancement 4P Bonus

    Legacy of the Frost Witch - Consuming 5 stacks of Maelstrom Weapon will reset the cooldown of Stormstrike and cause your next Stormstrike to deal 100% increased damage.
    Last edited by Kleym; 2020-06-25 at 11:54 AM.

  9. #189
    Old God Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Meh after BFA, I'm kinda leaning to any spec that is grounded around fire spells.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Kleym View Post
    Primal Lava Actuators - Each time Flame Shock deals Periodic damage, increase the damage of your next Lava Lash by 10% and reduce the cooldown of Lava Lash by 0.5 sec.
    Inspired by: Shaman T16 Enhancement 4P Bonus
    I kinda wish this or one of the LL talents were baseline. LL having no baseline interactivity is still a huge design weakness in the spec imo.

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    I kinda wish this or one of the LL talents were baseline. LL having no baseline interactivity is still a huge design weakness in the spec imo.
    I miss when it spread Flame shock or when it interacted with the stacks from searing totem

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Razaron View Post
    Litterally a week ago they changed up the whole spec, as long as it's in Alpha there's a chance at dramatic changes.

    We still need a lot of work, especially on our survivability in PVP and PVE, we're very weak. Also some talents just don't work well or are very boring.

    Aesthetically we could use some changes, this is what I'd do off the top of my head.

    Shocks need to have a more prominent graphical efx.
    Spells like lightning bolt and shocks shouldn't make you sheathe your weapons whilst casting them, we're a melee hybrid, lets keep our weapons out whilst casting.
    Windfury should cancel the weapon swing anitmation and attack again, like vanilla. It doesn't feel or even look like you've attacked again.
    Windfury should also have a better graphical efx then a faint wind blowing around your ankles and wrists.
    Lightning Bolt jagged graphic looks very dated and needs improving.
    Lightning Shield could potentially use a update and clips horribly on some avatars.
    Weapon Imbues efx haven't been updated since vanilla.
    An option to hide weapon imbues on weapons through glyphs.
    Ascendance model from Cataclysm has always been horrible IMO, I'd rather keep the players avatar but add some graphical efx over them, look to Unending Resolve from warlocks for inspiration.
    I wouldn't say they changed the whole spec a week ago, just made another pass hehe.

    I do think they should bring back shamanistic rage. People have been wanting it since it got removed in legion :-/

    I hope frost shock gets a new cool animation. We have a big lack of ice stuff. I love ice as an element and I find it so lacking in the spec.

    WF animation is really ugly since legion yes

    LB was updated not long ago, I do like it. I mostly think it should look cooler for enh as it's a nuke spell.

    Weapon imbues could use a refresh. They have so much cool enchants now, here is no way they can't make them really show wind and fire effects on the weapons.

    In WoD we had FINALLY got a new glyph that changed it to be similar to the monk's storm earth fire. It wasn't much but I preferred it by FAR.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Oturanboa View Post
    Flametongue procs everytime you swing it's not on chance.

    I would like to get rid of that miniscule damage that doesn't mean anything. Which siphons power from other abilities. %5 of all your dps in shadowlands atm. And fill your screen with boring low damage disappointment.

    The more i think about it, making it augment another ability seems better and better.
    I wouldn't cry about it being removed. I agree, it's such a tiny portion of DMG and doesn't do anything interesting. I understand they want that synergy with lava lash and it's been with us for a very long time but... I'd rather they add the DMG to LB's. It's not like in the past where we had unleash elements and it increased our next flame shock. It's not like we can even choose another imbue such as frostbrand to trade some DMG for some CC...

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalarm View Post
    I wouldn't say they changed the whole spec a week ago, just made another pass hehe.

    I do think they should bring back shamanistic rage. People have been wanting it since it got removed in legion :-/

    I hope frost shock gets a new cool animation. We have a big lack of ice stuff. I love ice as an element and I find it so lacking in the spec.

    WF animation is really ugly since legion yes

    LB was updated not long ago, I do like it. I mostly think it should look cooler for enh as it's a nuke spell.

    Weapon imbues could use a refresh. They have so much cool enchants now, here is no way they can't make them really show wind and fire effects on the weapons.

    In WoD we had FINALLY got a new glyph that changed it to be similar to the monk's storm earth fire. It wasn't much but I preferred it by FAR.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I wouldn't cry about it being removed. I agree, it's such a tiny portion of DMG and doesn't do anything interesting. I understand they want that synergy with lava lash and it's been with us for a very long time but... I'd rather they add the DMG to LB's. It's not like in the past where we had unleash elements and it increased our next flame shock. It's not like we can even choose another imbue such as frostbrand to trade some DMG for some CC...
    Removing Flametongue is the first step towards making 2h viable again alongside dual-wielding.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelthon
    do i wanting my cat come the expansion due to signifying a reroll fresh scratch the night elf mage?

  14. #194
    Flametongue is pathetic in itself already. Smallest number you can have in world of warcraft. Damage of it could be baked into at least flameshock to make it more fun to use.

    Flameshock also stays on target when you cant stay on it yourself.

    Its just... not fun to see incredibly small numbers clutter your screen.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It could be made as good or rather original as windfury to be casted on main hand weapon.

    To be honest, i don't like windfury as well. It was the reason to play enhancement but over the years, impact of it reduced gradually. Rather than being central part of enhancement, it became a tax on other abilities.

    So maybe flametongue could rival windfury "on main hand" as a static armor penetration or something? Ofc i don't see windfury getting removed but still flametongue could be made an alternative to "miniscule damage proc".

    And off hand could be left alone as a preperation for 2h enhancement?

  15. #195
    I never understand why everyone is so faithfull about 2H enh ... come on guys, it's been 15 years now, this time is over.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by Kleym View Post
    I never understand why everyone is so faithfull about 2H enh ... come on guys, it's been 15 years now, this time is over.
    yes who cares about 2h or double 1 handed, in the end they will do same dps anyway. enchanemnt shaman have far bigger problems than using a two handed staff would solve

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Oturanboa View Post
    Flametongue is pathetic in itself already. Smallest number you can have in world of warcraft. Damage of it could be baked into at least flameshock to make it more fun to use.

    Flameshock also stays on target when you cant stay on it yourself.

    Its just... not fun to see incredibly small numbers clutter your screen.
    it`s a lot of small numbers that`s right but it`s extra to every attack that also scale with mastery and haste so it can add up to some nice % of total dmg in the end, for 1 GCD that you have to use once per 30-60 mins its not that bad imo
    Having extra fire dmg on attacks is going strong with class fantasy and give you a bit of "armor mitigation" when big part of our dmg is spell dmg which is a nice thing cause when someone have immunity to physical or magic we can still do ~half of our dmg.
    FS can be dispelled, weapon imbues not, they require high up time on target tho so also come with some downsides, everything have its good and bad sides and baking all dmg in ~4 skills is not always a good thing although i haven't meet any DH having issues with that :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Kleym View Post
    I never understand why everyone is so faithfull about 2H enh ... come on guys, it's been 15 years now, this time is over.
    also just that ^
    Last edited by kosajk; 2020-06-30 at 02:13 PM.

    "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst"

  18. #198
    Yea it's just downsides seems to be much more than gainz. It's %5 of total damage btw. Yes it scales but i don't think it will ever be more than %5. If it has taken more from damage pie, it would be more for us to discuss but i guess no one cares that much about it and it will remain to be a "flavor" spell. Oh well, %5 is %5 i guess.

    ps: shouldn't have mentioned 2h lol. Always steals the discussion even if its for a sentence in 20 paragraphs.

  19. #199
    If we're locked with MH-windfury, OH-firebrand that's not really a choice and I don't see the point of weapon imbues. Aside having to re-apply it every 60 minutes you don't really do anything with imbues, they do damage passivey.

    I would rather have them removed as such, and return WF back as Mastery. And if you really like the idea of doing magic damage with your autoattacks, maybe adding an effect to mastery: your malee hits do extra fire/frost damage could be an option. No need to click on icons every hour, it's baked into mastery.

    Also I would remove Stormbringer from the game, and instead give Stormstrike charges. Something like 2 or 3 charges on a 6 secod CD could be fine.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by Bomba the Shaman View Post
    If we're locked with MH-windfury, OH-firebrand that's not really a choice and I don't see the point of weapon imbues. Aside having to re-apply it every 60 minutes you don't really do anything with imbues, they do damage passivey.

    I would rather have them removed as such, and return WF back as Mastery. And if you really like the idea of doing magic damage with your autoattacks, maybe adding an effect to mastery: your malee hits do extra fire/frost damage could be an option. No need to click on icons every hour, it's baked into mastery.

    Also I would remove Stormbringer from the game, and instead give Stormstrike charges. Something like 2 or 3 charges on a 6 secod CD could be fine.
    /kiss #nohomo

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