Enhancement changes 9.0 Discussion

[Grimbold21]

Still think there's a few mechanical changes to be made, especially FL spread

[Shango]

Considering our baseline Feral Spirits and our last talent row are pretty meh, i had an idea, fixing multiple problems like no way to spread Flame Shock, mostly dead talents like Earthen Spike and Crashing Storm and the randomness of Elemental Spirits.

Splitting Elemental Spirits into 3 talents (Fire/Ice/Lighting) and moving Ascendance to Crashing Storms place, talents could look something like this:

Fire Spirits: Lava Lash now has 2 charges and causes Flame Shock to spread to 2 nearby targets. While Feral Spirits are active you Fire Damage is increased by 50% and Flame Shock spread is increased to 4 targets.

Lightning Spirits: Stormstrike now has 2 charges and causes your next Windfury attack to hit 1 additional time, stacking up to 3. While Feral Spirits are active your Stormstrike and Windfury Damage is increased by 75%.

Frost Spirits: Your Shocks now have 2 charges and MSW Spenders deal xy% more damage to targets affected by Frost Shock. While Feral Spirits are active your Frost Damage is increased by 25% and your meele attacks deal additional Frost Damage to enemies, slowing them by 30%.

Do you think this would adress some of our issues?

[Grimbold21]

Not really interested in having the ability to spread FL talented and modified by talents in that regard.

[Shoxu]

Long time lurker here, how is WF totem playing out? Will an Enh spot be preferred once again like in TBC?

[Oturanboa]

I read it to be %1 dps increase

[Dancaris]

Just want that lightning axe for MH and molten OH. great fantasy with weapons appearing in combat.

[Aurosh]

I read it to be %1 dps increase

Well it heavily depends on raid comp etc.

But some melees will benefit up to 10% or nearly 10%, others 6%. If your raid has 10 melees, 3 of them are arms - well, great.

If there's one dh and no other melee - well noone cares about your WFT.

For highend raids, it probably wont be enough to want an enhancement shamans. But good raids with many melees will value having a good enhancement shaman bringing WFT to the raid. So whenever you can pick many melees and IF enhance is damage wise on the same level like warriors, why would they take 2 warrs over 1 warr/1 enhance?

[kosajk]

Well it heavily depends on raid comp etc.

But some melees will benefit up to 10% or nearly 10%, others 6%. If your raid has 10 melees, 3 of them are arms - well, great.

If there's one dh and no other melee - well noone cares about your WFT.

For highend raids, it probably wont be enough to want an enhancement shamans. But good raids with many melees will value having a good enhancement shaman bringing WFT to the raid. So whenever you can pick many melees and IF enhance is damage wise on the same level like warriors, why would they take 2 warrs over 1 warr/1 enhance?

well you are not right tbh its 10% to proc extra mele attack its not same as 10% more mele dmg :P
its ~1% increse in dmg so if you have 6 meles in raid you can take one shamn for extra 6% dmg or you can take one warrior that will make > 7% more dmg than shaman and you have net gain of it thats the issue its not really that important overall etleast befor numbers pass

tbh before we had WF totem in times where auto attacks was been ~30% of overall dmg of mele clases + some extra abilities like ancestral guidance for instance which was been a huge cd actually,
atm we dont give any significant buffs, have no survivability, and no extraordinary dmg or burst on most fights, just good when you can be 100% time on target and rather medium in any other situation so actually 95% of fights ;P

tbh hope to be wrong or yet another expansion i will play for ~3 months total

[Aurosh]

well you are not right tbh its 10% to proc extra mele attack its not same as 10% more mele dmg :P
its ~1% increse in dmg so if you have 6 meles in raid you can take one shamn for extra 6% dmg or you can take one warrior that will make > 7% more dmg than shaman and you have net gain of it thats the issue its not really that important overall etleast befor numbers pass

tbh before we had WF totem in times where auto attacks was been ~30% of overall dmg of mele clases + some extra abilities like ancestral guidance for instance which was been a huge cd actually,
atm we dont give any significant buffs, have no survivability, and no extraordinary dmg or burst on most fights, just good when you can be 100% time on target and rather medium in any other situation so actually 95% of fights ;P

Well it is 20% extra autos and procs based on auto attacks. So Arms gets 20% autos = 20% more ressource gen/rage. So he can spent more rage on e.g. powerful executes.

As example: enhance gets 20% more autos, 20% more wf procs(+flametongue), more stormbringer procs for more SS damage + more MSW procs - and your extra autos may generate hot hand procs or extra 1sec SS CD reduction.

It is just way more than 20% more white hit damage. It is everything associated with auto attacks like extra poison attacks, ressources, procs etc.

And different specs benefit on different levels atm.

And your battle shout is now 2%. Because scrolls are 3%, BS is 5%. So 2% ap for 25-40% of the raid damage... do the math. It isnt that huge.

[Razaron]

Overall damage of Windfury Totem won’t be a lot, it’s hard to say how much of an impact it will have. Why? Because it won’t just be doing damage. It could be a great resource generator, that alone won’t show up on the specific logs of Windfury Totem but could give the raid a bigger dps increase.

[kosajk]

Overall damage of Windfury Totem won’t be a lot, it’s hard to say how much of an impact it will have. Why? Because it won’t just be doing damage. It could be a great resource generator, that alone won’t show up on the specific logs of Windfury Totem but could give the raid a bigger dps increase.

well may be but there are like 2 mele clases that generate resources with autoattacks (one with talent for that), beside shaman i still dont think it will have enough impact in current form :P

[Aurosh]

well may be but there are like 2 mele clases that generate resources with autoattacks (one with talent for that), beside shaman i still dont think it will have enough impact in current form :P

Yes it has. Frost DK generates Rp via talent + gets KM procs via crit autos. Assa rogues have over 40% auto attacks+poison damage. DH regenerate extra sources. Outlaw has 1 energy every auto attack. Ret palas have a CD reset via auto attacks.

There are definitely setups where WFT will be very powerful.

How much? Well only sims will be able t give answers.

[Shelly]

Yes it has. Frost DK generates Rp via talent + gets KM procs via crit autos. Assa rogues have over 40% auto attacks+poison damage. DH regenerate extra sources. Outlaw has 1 energy every auto attack. Ret palas have a CD reset via auto attacks.

There are definitely setups where WFT will be very powerful.

How much? Well only sims will be able t give answers.

Don't forget too now there area weapon oils and sharpening stones. Additional AA damage benefits both of those too.

Really though it'll always come down to just how many melee your raid team has and to a lesser extent the need for additional threat from the tanks.

[Manu9]

Considering our baseline Feral Spirits and our last talent row are pretty meh, i had an idea, fixing multiple problems like no way to spread Flame Shock, mostly dead talents like Earthen Spike and Crashing Storm and the randomness of Elemental Spirits.

Splitting Elemental Spirits into 3 talents (Fire/Ice/Lighting) and moving Ascendance to Crashing Storms place, talents could look something like this:

Fire Spirits: Lava Lash now has 2 charges and causes Flame Shock to spread to 2 nearby targets. While Feral Spirits are active you Fire Damage is increased by 50% and Flame Shock spread is increased to 4 targets.

Lightning Spirits: Stormstrike now has 2 charges and causes your next Windfury attack to hit 1 additional time, stacking up to 3. While Feral Spirits are active your Stormstrike and Windfury Damage is increased by 75%.

Frost Spirits: Your Shocks now have 2 charges and MSW Spenders deal xy% more damage to targets affected by Frost Shock. While Feral Spirits are active your Frost Damage is increased by 25% and your meele attacks deal additional Frost Damage to enemies, slowing them by 30%.

Do you think this would adress some of our issues?

Honestly, I love this. Each one changes the spec in a meaningful way.

- - - Updated - - -

Just want that lightning axe for MH and molten OH. great fantasy with weapons appearing in combat.

Same, I think you mean when not?
I think that them not being available for mogs could be an oversight. But I really hope they fix the disappearing concept, this is the reason I don't use the Artifact mogs atm.

[Rednith]

Considering our baseline Feral Spirits and our last talent row are pretty meh, i had an idea, fixing multiple problems like no way to spread Flame Shock, mostly dead talents like Earthen Spike and Crashing Storm and the randomness of Elemental Spirits.

Splitting Elemental Spirits into 3 talents (Fire/Ice/Lighting) and moving Ascendance to Crashing Storms place, talents could look something like this:

Fire Spirits: Lava Lash now has 2 charges and causes Flame Shock to spread to 2 nearby targets. While Feral Spirits are active you Fire Damage is increased by 50% and Flame Shock spread is increased to 4 targets.

Lightning Spirits: Stormstrike now has 2 charges and causes your next Windfury attack to hit 1 additional time, stacking up to 3. While Feral Spirits are active your Stormstrike and Windfury Damage is increased by 75%.

Frost Spirits: Your Shocks now have 2 charges and MSW Spenders deal xy% more damage to targets affected by Frost Shock. While Feral Spirits are active your Frost Damage is increased by 25% and your meele attacks deal additional Frost Damage to enemies, slowing them by 30%.

Do you think this would adress some of our issues?

This is perfect! Makes nice choosing between aoe/single/pvp I'd say.
I'd love this.

[Grimbold21]

Annnnd still no FL spread via LL

What does "Chain off it self" mean?

[Kalarm]

Annnnd still no FL spread via LL

What does "Chain off it self" mean?

That the extra hit from stormflurry also has 25% chance to proc itself. I don't remember if that third hit is 40% of the previous hit or 40% of the original hit.

[Kleym]

Just tested this new talent today, doesn't work. Got no proc at all

EDIT :
Actually proc, you can't see any animation but when checking on details, you can see things like "5 cast > 12hits"

Means you press 5 times SS, got 10 hits (main hand + off hand), and 1 proc from the talent (= 2 more hits main hand and off hand)

I didn't got proc on proc

[oland138]

That the extra hit from stormflurry also has 25% chance to proc itself. I don't remember if that third hit is 40% of the previous hit or 40% of the original hit.

I was trying it yesterday. I got 2 procs a few times and it's 40% of the initial hit.

[Unholyground]

Considering our baseline Feral Spirits and our last talent row are pretty meh, i had an idea, fixing multiple problems like no way to spread Flame Shock, mostly dead talents like Earthen Spike and Crashing Storm and the randomness of Elemental Spirits.

Splitting Elemental Spirits into 3 talents (Fire/Ice/Lighting) and moving Ascendance to Crashing Storms place, talents could look something like this:

Fire Spirits: Lava Lash now has 2 charges and causes Flame Shock to spread to 2 nearby targets. While Feral Spirits are active you Fire Damage is increased by 50% and Flame Shock spread is increased to 4 targets.

Lightning Spirits: Stormstrike now has 2 charges and causes your next Windfury attack to hit 1 additional time, stacking up to 3. While Feral Spirits are active your Stormstrike and Windfury Damage is increased by 75%.

Frost Spirits: Your Shocks now have 2 charges and MSW Spenders deal xy% more damage to targets affected by Frost Shock. While Feral Spirits are active your Frost Damage is increased by 25% and your meele attacks deal additional Frost Damage to enemies, slowing them by 30%.

Do you think this would adress some of our issues?

I think they should change it so that final row Feral Spirit talent summons three wolves one of each element guaranteed. That would be a big enough buff that people would take it.

Or they could make a talent that gives you permanent funeral spirit pets with a special ability called elemental bite that increases in power for every maelstrom stack you use up to a 3 stack. And maybe have storm bringer reset the cool down of the bite.