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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Heph47 View Post
    2H was never intended to be a thing, even in Vanilla. The fact it was never meant to be a thing is a very good reason to not bring it back - and eve using the phrase 'bring it back' gives it more legitimacy than it should have.
    Never intended to be a thing? Except Enhancement in Vanilla is 100% about 2-handers, since it explicitly has a talent that allows you to equip 2-handers?

    TBC Enhancement adds Dual Wield, but that and its followup are the only talents that specifically target Dual Wield. Everything else is clearly intended to allow 2-handers to remain.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    Are there any shaman streamers with access to the alpha right now? Preferably enhancement


    I believe he streams as well.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by agittunc View Post
    So, since they are essentially bringing back Enhancement before the maelstrom buff (i can only relate it to MoP and maybe WoD).
    It seems i am going back to my old trusty enhancement since i always hated the maelstrom crap they made enhancement go with.

    Overall pretty excited. I do hope to transfer some power from procs to baseline abilities to not make it too spammy on stormstrike.
    I just want them to make stromstrike feel more....meaty and impactfull,not spam spam spam,and make windfury be a bigger part of the dmg,not just resource,and bring back the damn cool visual!

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    I just want them to make stromstrike feel more....meaty and impactfull,not spam spam spam,and make windfury be a bigger part of the dmg,not just resource,and bring back the damn cool visual!
    Fair point. but it's still early days and it does seem they are taking feedback this time (LETS FUCKING HOPE).

  5. #45
    Suggestions :

    Stormstrike : Energizes both your weapons with lightning and delivers a massive blow to your target, dealing a total of (630% + 630% of weapon damage) Physical damage. 15s cooldown.

    Crash Lightning : Electrocutes all enemies in front of you with your weapons, dealing (135% of attack power) Nature damage. Hitting 2 or more targets enhances your weapons for 10 sec, causing Stormstrike, Rockbiter, Frostband and Lava Lash to also deal 75% Nature damage to all targets in front of you. 9s cooldown.

    Primal Strike : An instant weapon strike that causes 110% off-hand weapon damage. Also reduces the cooldown of Stormstrike by 1s. Primal Strike may be enchanced by Elemental Blessings. 9s cooldown.

    Elemental Blessings : using a Shock spell resets the cooldown of Primal Strike and replaces it by an alternative elemental strike for its next use.
    - Earth Shock : Primal Strike is replaced by Rockbiter which assaults your target with earthen power, dealing (150% of attack power) Nature damage, and enhanced your weapons with earth for 16s, causing each of your weapon physical damage to ignore 20% of the enemy's armor.
    - Flame Shock : Primal Strike is replaced by Lava Lash wich charges your off-hand weapon with lava and burns your target, dealing (150% of attack power) Fire damage, and enhances your off-hand weapon with fire for 16s, causing each of your attack to deal addtionnal fire damage.
    - Frost Shock : Primal Strike is replaced by Frostbrand wich chills your target, dealing (160% of attack power) Frost damage, and enhances your weapons with frost for 16 sec, causing each weapon attack to reduce the target's movement speed by 50% for 3 sec.
    All of this elemental strikes reduce the cooldown of Stormstike by 1s.

    Earth Shock : Instantly shocks the target with concussive force, causing up to (32% of spell power) Nature damage. 6s shared cooldown.

    Flame Shock : Sears the target with fire, causing (22% of spell power) Fire damage and then an additional (105% of spell power) Fire damage over 18 sec. 6s shared cooldown.

    Frost Shock : Chills the target with frost, causing (22% of spell power) Frost damage and reducing the target's movement speed by 50% for 5 sec. 6s shared cooldown.

    Lightning Bolt : Hurls a bolt of lightning at the target, dealing (140% of attack power) Nature damage.

    Chain Lightning : Hurls a lightning bolt at the enemy, dealing (100% of attack power) Nature damage and then jumping to additional nearby enemies. Affects 5 total targets.

    Maesltrom Weapons : When you deal damage with a melee weapon, you have a chance to reset the shared cooldown of your Shock spells.

    Stormbringer : When the Maelstrom Weapons effect occurs 5 times during a combat, your next damage or healing spell becomes instant. Consuming this effect makes your next Stormbringer to trigger no cooldown.

    Enhanced Elements (mastery) : Increases your chance to trigger Maesltrom Weapons and Windfury by 1.00%, increases damage dealt by Stormstrike by 16%, and increases all Fire, Frost, and Nature damage you deal by 16%

    Explanations : the goal that you feel that your elemental spells (your shocks but also indirectly lightning bolt/chain lightning with Stormbringer) seems to enhance your weapons. Casting elemental spells isn't the goal but the mean to gain better melee attacks. All of your abilities directly or indirectly increases the effectiveness of Stormstrike. Your autoattacks have a chance to reset the cooldown of your shocks which enhance your primal strike which reduces the CD of Stormstrike. Consuming Stormbringer (after 5 MW effects) with LB or CL (or Elemental Blast if talented, or a healing spell) makes your next SS to trigger no cooldown. In multitargets situation, Crash Lightning enhances SS and all other elemental strikes.

    Rotation :
    1) If 2 or more enemies, use Crash Lightning
    2) if the buff of Rockbitter is missing or ending, use Earth Shock and then Rockbiter
    3) use Lightning Bolt if Stormbringer is available (or Chain Lightning if 2 ore more targets)
    4) Use Stormstrike
    5) if the buff of Lava Lash is missing or ending, use Flame Shock and then Lava Lash
    6) use Frost Shock and then Frostbrand if the buffs of Rockbiter and Lava Lash aren't ending in the next 7s.
    7) use Crash Lightning.
    Last edited by Raghnar; 2020-04-11 at 11:12 AM.

  6. #46
    Old God Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Unless I'm missing something, I think there is a lost opportunity in flame shock not interacting with Lava Lash or Searing totem, other than speccing into Searing Assault.

    There ought to be some buff or effect between these. Otherwise it's just a button you press 5o to leave a dot ticking

  7. #47
    That Elemental Blessing idea is pretty interesting Raghnar.

    Also agree that it feels off that Lava Lash and Stormstrike don't have more interactions with the toolkit besides crash lightning and chance at procs for WF and Stormbringer.

    I'd like to see the Stormstrike have it's old debuff again, Lava Lash spread FS, and Static Shock return.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimbold21 View Post
    Unless I'm missing something, I think there is a lost opportunity in flame shock not interacting with Lava Lash or Searing totem, other than speccing into Searing Assault.

    There ought to be some buff or effect between these. Otherwise it's just a button you press 5o to leave a dot ticking
    Yes, feels like Flame Shock is in a weird place. I would prefer them to scrap Crash Lightning and make Searing Assault baseline with a much lower cd but work in the same way and also spread Flame Shock, with tuned numbers of course. That combined with having Lava Lash damage all mobs with Flame Shock and building MSW up to use CL would be enough for AoE imo. You could have a talent that makes Searing Totem hit up 5-8 targets when buffed by Searing Assault. Please let me know if this sounds overtuned. I'm just bored with the Crash Lightning way of AoE and really miss the Flame Shock spread.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by lollerlaban View Post
    No. 2 hand was a meme in classic and quickly phased out, why on earth would they let us have it
    I don't see how 2 hand is a meme in classic. or there is whole lot of specs in classic that you can call a meme too....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    Considering Enhancement has an ability that's specifically used with offhand, the chances are basically nil.
    scrap the "off hand" element of that spell, twick the numbers, et voilà....

    I don't think they will give enha 2h back, but they definitely could if they decided to. it's not like we never seen a 2h weapons class working well or people interrested to play it... and I believe another 2h specs would not be too much, there is a lot of dual wielding specs already.

  10. #50
    Old God Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricecookie View Post
    Yes, feels like Flame Shock is in a weird place. I would prefer them to scrap Crash Lightning and make Searing Assault baseline with a much lower cd but work in the same way and also spread Flame Shock, with tuned numbers of course. That combined with having Lava Lash damage all mobs with Flame Shock and building MSW up to use CL would be enough for AoE imo. You could have a talent that makes Searing Totem hit up 5-8 targets when buffed by Searing Assault. Please let me know if this sounds overtuned. I'm just bored with the Crash Lightning way of AoE and really miss the Flame Shock spread.
    Whatever it is, and I know it's very early, I hope shaman testers get in early and point this out. Otherwise it's really a press & forget ability

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Beuargh View Post
    scrap the "off hand" element of that spell, twick the numbers, et voilà....

    I don't think they will give enha 2h back, but they definitely could if they decided to. it's not like we never seen a 2h weapons class working well or people interrested to play it... and I believe another 2h specs would not be too much, there is a lot of dual wielding specs already.
    It wouldn't be hard to make Rogue a 2-hander spec either with that logic. A lot (almost all) Enhancement animations are with one of two weapons, held in one hand. Apply a 2-hander to that and suddenly its animations are completely nonsensical. Blizzard (obviously) doesn't want that, and would have to create new animations to allow 2-handed Enhancement to be a thing, and THAT is why it won't happen.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Beuargh View Post
    I don't see how 2 hand is a meme in classic. or there is whole lot of specs in classic that you can call a meme too....
    It is a meme because it never worked. I think, you saw far too many youtube videos where people were playing hours just to get few lucky wf procs to clip it in one video.

    Enh is a proc spec, which heavily depends on your attack speed. 2h weapon has no place in this kind of playstyle.

  13. #53
    Herald of the Titans Vintersol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    It is a meme because it never worked. I think, you saw far too many youtube videos where people were playing hours just to get few lucky wf procs to clip it in one video.

    Enh is a proc spec, which heavily depends on your attack speed. 2h weapon has no place in this kind of playstyle.
    You can make a 2h work like DW when talking about procs. I see more a problem on the itemization part. There were very few if any agility axes and maces in the past and i doubt that will change.
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  14. #54
    Old God Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Maelstrom gets removed, the spec seems to be much better now, and what are we complaining?

    The absence of something that was a miniscule niche, based off videos from a few shamans that back in the day went around wsg 1 shotting people with windfury

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    It is a meme because it never worked. I think, you saw far too many youtube videos where people were playing hours just to get few lucky wf procs to clip it in one video.

    Enh is a proc spec, which heavily depends on your attack speed. 2h weapon has no place in this kind of playstyle.
    it's not about youtube video I've seen.... I played enha in vanilla and kept that spec as my main thru the years. enh is a proc spec (and wich spec is not a proc spec nowadays? seriously) until blizzard decide it's not anymore. some dk specs have gone from 2h to dual to 2h again with spells working for both with twiks along the way. changes happen Bud

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    It wouldn't be hard to make Rogue a 2-hander spec either with that logic. A lot (almost all) Enhancement animations are with one of two weapons, held in one hand. Apply a 2-hander to that and suddenly its animations are completely nonsensical. Blizzard (obviously) doesn't want that, and would have to create new animations to allow 2-handed Enhancement to be a thing, and THAT is why it won't happen.
    well, if someone thinks a rogue with a 2h make sense then ask for it! IDGAF really as I don't play rogue, and I don't think 2h with rogues make sense anyway.....
    if shamans can be melee fighters, I don't see how which type of weapons they use really matter. it's not like rogues where I can clearly underdstand why 2h weapons doesn't fit the class theme. for exemple I never understood why shamans can't use swords. if they can use maces and axes, I don't see the problem with swords from a class identity point of view. I never thought about shamans as melee fighters before warcraft anyway. so if blizzard tell me shamans are melee, then them using 1h, 2h, swords or anything else is not going to surprise me much more.

    the animation argument is BS. there is several animations available for every races and shared between classes already... no need to create new ones for shamans. just pick animations from warriors or DK of the same race and you are good. I play 2 orcs, a sham and a priest. they share cast animations. so what's the problem preventing the use of warriors or dk animation for shaman melee spell??
    Last edited by Beuargh; 2020-04-12 at 04:27 PM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Beuargh View Post
    the animation argument is BS. there is several animations available for every races and shared between classes already... no need to create new ones for shamans. just pick animations from warriors or DK of the same race and you are good. I play 2 orcs, a sham and a priest. they share cast animations. so what's the problem preventing the use of warriors or dk animation for shaman melee spell??
    It's not BS because we're not talking about my opinions but why Blizzard won't do it. It's important to them, and they don't feel 2h Enhancement is wanted enough to warrant it. That's really the end of the discussion. Just because you can make a somewhat passable 2h Enhancement with other animations on a private server doesn't mean Blizzard agrees and/or thinks the effort is worth it. Clearly they don't.

  17. #57
    ok Mr blizzard talking head! end of discussion until the 2h enh debate pop up again as it did since BC. wish you'll be there to do your job of blizzard spokesperson.
    anyway... who the F talked about private servers here?? where does that come from? the joker buzz words in your pocket to discredit everything you don't like? you talk like a zealot. a blizzard white knight or yes man. end of discussion for me here cause I believe there is no point discussing anything with people like you. go get the last words. blizzard's words.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Raghnar View Post
    Suggestions :

    Stormstrike : Energizes both your weapons with lightning and delivers a massive blow to your target, dealing a total of (630% + 630% of weapon damage) Physical damage. 15s cooldown.

    Crash Lightning : Electrocutes all enemies in front of you with your weapons, dealing (135% of attack power) Nature damage. Hitting 2 or more targets enhances your weapons for 10 sec, causing Stormstrike, Rockbiter, Frostband and Lava Lash to also deal 75% Nature damage to all targets in front of you. 9s cooldown.

    Primal Strike : An instant weapon strike that causes 110% off-hand weapon damage. Also reduces the cooldown of Stormstrike by 1s. Primal Strike may be enchanced by Elemental Blessings. 9s cooldown.

    Elemental Blessings : using a Shock spell resets the cooldown of Primal Strike and replaces it by an alternative elemental strike for its next use.
    - Earth Shock : Primal Strike is replaced by Rockbiter which assaults your target with earthen power, dealing (150% of attack power) Nature damage, and enhanced your weapons with earth for 16s, causing each of your weapon physical damage to ignore 20% of the enemy's armor.
    - Flame Shock : Primal Strike is replaced by Lava Lash wich charges your off-hand weapon with lava and burns your target, dealing (150% of attack power) Fire damage, and enhances your off-hand weapon with fire for 16s, causing each of your attack to deal addtionnal fire damage.
    - Frost Shock : Primal Strike is replaced by Frostbrand wich chills your target, dealing (160% of attack power) Frost damage, and enhances your weapons with frost for 16 sec, causing each weapon attack to reduce the target's movement speed by 50% for 3 sec.
    All of this elemental strikes reduce the cooldown of Stormstike by 1s.

    Earth Shock : Instantly shocks the target with concussive force, causing up to (32% of spell power) Nature damage. 6s shared cooldown.

    Flame Shock : Sears the target with fire, causing (22% of spell power) Fire damage and then an additional (105% of spell power) Fire damage over 18 sec. 6s shared cooldown.

    Frost Shock : Chills the target with frost, causing (22% of spell power) Frost damage and reducing the target's movement speed by 50% for 5 sec. 6s shared cooldown.

    Lightning Bolt : Hurls a bolt of lightning at the target, dealing (140% of attack power) Nature damage.

    Chain Lightning : Hurls a lightning bolt at the enemy, dealing (100% of attack power) Nature damage and then jumping to additional nearby enemies. Affects 5 total targets.

    Maesltrom Weapons : When you deal damage with a melee weapon, you have a chance to reset the shared cooldown of your Shock spells.

    Stormbringer : When the Maelstrom Weapons effect occurs 5 times during a combat, your next damage or healing spell becomes instant. Consuming this effect makes your next Stormbringer to trigger no cooldown.

    Enhanced Elements (mastery) : Increases your chance to trigger Maesltrom Weapons and Windfury by 1.00%, increases damage dealt by Stormstrike by 16%, and increases all Fire, Frost, and Nature damage you deal by 16%

    Explanations : the goal that you feel that your elemental spells (your shocks but also indirectly lightning bolt/chain lightning with Stormbringer) seems to enhance your weapons. Casting elemental spells isn't the goal but the mean to gain better melee attacks. All of your abilities directly or indirectly increases the effectiveness of Stormstrike. Your autoattacks have a chance to reset the cooldown of your shocks which enhance your primal strike which reduces the CD of Stormstrike. Consuming Stormbringer (after 5 MW effects) with LB or CL (or Elemental Blast if talented, or a healing spell) makes your next SS to trigger no cooldown. In multitargets situation, Crash Lightning enhances SS and all other elemental strikes.

    Rotation :
    1) If 2 or more enemies, use Crash Lightning
    2) if the buff of Rockbitter is missing or ending, use Earth Shock and then Rockbiter
    3) use Lightning Bolt if Stormbringer is available (or Chain Lightning if 2 ore more targets)
    4) Use Stormstrike
    5) if the buff of Lava Lash is missing or ending, use Flame Shock and then Lava Lash
    6) use Frost Shock and then Frostbrand if the buffs of Rockbiter and Lava Lash aren't ending in the next 7s.
    7) use Crash Lightning.
    The problem with this that it sounds genuinely fun and smooth, ergo it will never be implemented.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by jon041065 View Post
    That Elemental Blessing idea is pretty interesting Raghnar.

    Also agree that it feels off that Lava Lash and Stormstrike don't have more interactions with the toolkit besides crash lightning and chance at procs for WF and Stormbringer.

    I'd like to see the Stormstrike have it's old debuff again, Lava Lash spread FS, and Static Shock return.
    Actually those abilities are what builds your maelstrom stacks. It's rockbiter that really feels out of place and searing totem that feels underwhelming.

  20. #60
    Old God Grimbold21's Avatar
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    Random thought/dislike popped up in my head, but I don't think I really fancy Crash Lightning that much.

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