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  1. #81
    Pit Lord msdos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Never been a huge fan of that as Elemental to be honest.

    Enhancement gets all the fun stuff from Elemental and what does Elemental get?
    Primal Strike.

    Yep.
    The spell blade idea would've been cool back in the day when you could have a pure auto-attack class. Put a talent deep in Ele that increases the damage of flametongue/frostbrand weapon so much that you can just dps with it lol. Then have searing totem be an actual thing. A lot of people thought they would go down that path because of the Shadowhunter from WC3. But instead they went down this path of summoning elementals and extra attacks on separate CDs and being obsessed with radial AOEs.

    I think they found that no one alive actually likes totems, using them, having to destroy them, etc because they nerfed or removed PVP and high frequency totems faster than you could blink your eyeballs.

  2. #82
    i feel that some things are just being changed for 'old times sake' rather than an actual reason

    for example Searing Totem is just a silly uninspired ability that feels like a chore than something you want to do, essentially it reads: your attacks hit for 1% less and you have to waste a gcd every time you move in order to summon a totem that deals 1% of your total dmg

    Rockbitter, Flametongue and Frostbrand are also cool skills, i'm not super excited to replace them with shocks

    as for Maelstorm i don't care tbh, as long as the pacing is right without it, however in some cases like Overcharge Maelstorm as a resource feels much better than Maelstrom Weapon as a buff

    the rest of the returning stuff are cool

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Never been a huge fan of that as Elemental to be honest.

    Enhancement gets all the fun stuff from Elemental and what does Elemental get?
    Primal Strike.

    Yep.
    To be fair, there's not much specific to the melee aspect of Enhancement that would serve Elemental well. Elemental still operates on lava burst, which Enhance doesn't use, as well as chain lightning (which is clunky for Enhance).

    When they decided to implement maelstrom weapons the first time, Lightning Bolt/CL became the big nuke for Enhance, whereas for Elemental it was filler.

    Elemental cast Flame Shock, Lava Burst, then just LB for filler.

    Enhance would build up 5 stacks to use a massive LB, with stormstrike, lava lash, and flame shock being filler.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kosajk View Post
    although having cast time or not from time to time on ability is not same to using it different way :P
    tbh for SL i would like to see
    - wolfs healing for % of dmg done, maybe having elemental wolfs baseline to have some more synergy
    - some decent defensive CD
    - ancestral guidance
    - scrap searing totem again or give ability to strike enemy and re position all active totems to your location with ~10 sec cd (maybe talent option)
    - baseline ascendance
    - instant hex for enh ffs
    - scraping SS spam mechanic and making it more impact-full, 15-20% chance to proc but actually hit like a truck to have that "fuck yeah!!!" moments when it proc 3-4 times in a row
    Elemental uses LB as filler, Enhance (when maelstrom weapons was first implemented) used it as a gigantic damage nuke after getting 5 stacks. They used it entirely different. One was for when everything else was on cd and did measly damage, the other was your nuke.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelthon
    do i wanting my cat come the expansion due to signifying a reroll fresh scratch the night elf mage?

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by wushootaki View Post
    To be fair, there's not much specific to the melee aspect of Enhancement that would serve Elemental well.
    While i generally agree with your Assessment, i also feel like that Blizzard is not even trying.

    Their only attempt at somehow solving that was Unleash Elements, the weapon enchants belonged thematically to Enhancement but the execution was completely botched at least for Elemental.
    Flametongue was essentially the only good one and still saw only limited use w/o optional talents (Unleashed Fury) and the remaining weapon enchants were just terrible / fringe.

    Outside of that, there's Primal Strike, which is obviously a terrible ability.
    I mean, you could do something with the idea, maybe some additional effect on Primal Strike for Ele / Resto which knocks the opponent away, or something that at least has some form of use for Ele which involves the weapon enchants or melee weapon itself, without turning Ele into some caster that wants to stand in Melee range.


    Or maybe just give Elemental a really amazing ability, Lava burst just gets used far too frequently to feel good / special.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Or maybe just give Elemental a really amazing ability, Lava burst just gets used far too frequently to feel good / special.
    They did it's called Elemental Blast. Sadly it's been ruined over the years.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Thestrawman View Post
    They did it's called Elemental Blast. Sadly it's been ruined over the years.
    Considering that it used to be an Enhancement talent as well (and is becoming one in SL again), i think that's not really true.
    While it absolutely did fit Elemental thematically, it was just a talent with an amazing animation, the actual effect wasn't that unique.

    You could turn into a core Elemental ability, but that would mean you'd have to remove it from Enhancement and rework the spell into something else.
    Even as a "alternate Earth shock", i don't think it really carries the feeling of a signature ability.

    If it had an effect like that of the Necrolord covenant ability, that'd be a different story.

  7. #87
    i so dont miss flame shock. the enhancement reworks in legion was one of the better ones and its mind boggling why were going back to mana and stacks. its basically combo points via rng.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by dewd View Post
    i so dont miss flame shock. the enhancement reworks in legion was one of the better ones and its mind boggling why were going back to mana and stacks. its basically combo points via rng.
    I agree 100%. Going back is going to kill the spec for me.

  9. #89
    If the reasoning for removing the Maelstrom resource bar was because you couldn't spend it as fast as you could get it, maybe there could've been an additional cost on Stormstrike like how Ferocious Bite works where you could've got bonus damage with more Maelstrom, and then that could have addressed the issue. It seems like Stormstrike being free during the periods when you get the proc are what mostly result in the Maelstrom flood, especially considering the Maelstrom Weapon going off of Windfury and the talent that improves it. So if there was a tiny extra cost that wasn't related to the proc making the base cost of Stormstrike free, you could kind of mitigate all the extra resource coming in that is otherwise not getting spent. It seems like maybe just re-balancing the resource intake and costs could have been sufficient in solving the problems of the spec rather than maybe getting rid of it altogether.

    I find the problem of Maelstrom going back to the Lightning Bolt style problem twofold: if the major thing we build up for is this instant cast lightning bolt, it has just never really felt like it has done a lot of damage for it to be "the big moment" we save up for and spend in terms of building/spending. And what's worse second of all is that because you're in melee range the lightning bolt can often be not visible at all so even visually the payoff is pretty weak as well. I like abilities like Crash Lightning that create the huge thunder strike because not only is it caused by the weapons swinging, but the lightning is called down from the sky which means there's more visual you can appreciate.

  10. #90
    Fluffy Kitten -aiko-'s Avatar
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    Legion/BFA maelstrom system was awful. That feeling of wasting maelstrom because you cannot spend it fast enough made the spec feel off.

    I'm looking forward to the return of maelstrom weapon stacks.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Never been a huge fan of that as Elemental to be honest.
    The same
    But elemental was nice and pvp pve playable in previous versions.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    While i generally agree with your Assessment, i also feel like that Blizzard is not even trying.

    Their only attempt at somehow solving that was Unleash Elements, the weapon enchants belonged thematically to Enhancement but the execution was completely botched at least for Elemental.
    Flametongue was essentially the only good one and still saw only limited use w/o optional talents (Unleashed Fury) and the remaining weapon enchants were just terrible / fringe.

    Outside of that, there's Primal Strike, which is obviously a terrible ability.
    I mean, you could do something with the idea, maybe some additional effect on Primal Strike for Ele / Resto which knocks the opponent away, or something that at least has some form of use for Ele which involves the weapon enchants or melee weapon itself, without turning Ele into some caster that wants to stand in Melee range.


    Or maybe just give Elemental a really amazing ability, Lava burst just gets used far too frequently to feel good / special.

    Primal strike is only added so that Ele and Resto have an ability early on in leveling if they can't cast anything. And you are looking at it wrong. You aren't taking the Enhancement kit and figuring out how to make it work in elemental. Elemental never got overhauled. Enhancement did. The idea was always what can we tak from Elemental and apply in a unique way for the melee spec. This is where maelstrom weapons for lightning bolt came from. It allowed both specs to share abilities, while usingthem differently.

    LB, CL, Shocks and imbues were shared (don't forget flametongue gave spellpower for Elemental many moons ago). Adding Earthquake to the shared list, and allowing Enhance to run it off of Maelstrom Weapons would go a long way to giving the spec a true aoe, while not stepping on Elementals toes...like at all. Ele's AoE rotation would still be chain lightning spam into fulminate EQ, whereas Enh would be crash lightning cleave into melee rotation, into 5 stack maelstrom weapons EQ.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelthon
    do i wanting my cat come the expansion due to signifying a reroll fresh scratch the night elf mage?

  13. #93
    this is very cute to read that some enhancement players are still full of hope while blizzard manages to birth an alpha with a clueless version of the spec XD

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Skildar View Post
    this is very cute to read that some enhancement players are still full of hope while blizzard manages to birth an alpha with a clueless version of the spec XD
    From what I’ve seen of alpha enh looks like a jumbled mess of different era enhancement jammed into one. It honestly looks like a mess.

    I’ve lost all interest in shaman, whatever devs r in charge of the class seem to have no clue what they r trying to do.

  15. #95
    I've always wished Elemental Blast temporarily changed rotation instead of just stats. For example, picture like a 30 sec cooldown that randomly procs one of the following:

    next X Lava Bursts have no cooldown and leave a short non-stackable DoT (like old survival lock & load)
    next Y Chain Lightnings deal a lot more damage but don't jump
    or next Z Lightning Bolts leave static on the target that can be detonated with Earthquake

    Something like that would feel much more impactful/fun and add a unique mechanic for Ele (although they did give new survival sorta similar talent)

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by wushootaki View Post
    Primal strike is only added so that Ele and Resto have an ability early on in leveling if they can't cast anything.
    Primal Strike was introduced in Cata, by the time, the biggest downtimes during leveling caused by Mana were already gone.
    Primal Strike was just a 1-10 filler ability for Enhancement, so they don't have to make Stormstrike baseline.
    Quote Originally Posted by wushootaki View Post
    The idea was always what can we tak from Elemental and apply in a unique way for the melee spec.
    Calling glorified combopoints "unique" is a stretch.
    Quote Originally Posted by wushootaki View Post
    (don't forget flametongue gave spellpower for Elemental many moons ago).
    If said weapon enchant did something useful beyond that, i might consider it.
    And despite Flametongue weapon making a comeback, that passive effect doesn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by wushootaki View Post
    while not stepping on Elementals toes...like at all.
    You are solely looking it from a gameplay perspective, but the point is that Enhancement draws a lot upon Elemental abilities without Elemental actually having useful Enhancement abilities, nor those few abilities that are unique to Elemental (Lava Burst, Earthquake) feel strong enough on their own for the spec to set itself apart.

    And quite frankly, it's extremely silly that spells from a spellcaster do less damage in a singular hit than from a Melee fighter.
    Why? Because those spells are "finisher" for the Melee fighter and filler for the caster, despite not making a lick of sense.

    You carry weapons into battle and go toe to toe with other melees, do something fancy with that.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2020-06-01 at 12:50 PM.

  17. #97
    Would be cool if Searing Totem was dropped from a proc of something like Lava lash after gaining X stacks from using it, or some other fire based damage.

    So you'd build the stacks, cast lava lash or whatever, and the totem just drops wihout having to click it.

    If anything it would work better as a passive, same with all totems imo.

    THey could make some kind of earth shock style weak spell that drops the earthbinding totem, or a healing spell that drops healing stream totem.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by wushootaki View Post
    Elemental uses LB as filler, Enhance (when maelstrom weapons was first implemented) used it as a gigantic damage nuke after getting 5 stacks. They used it entirely different. One was for when everything else was on cd and did measly damage, the other was your nuke.
    yea and what kind of problem that was?
    resto still hits for more with spells than ele pure number wise, although dont have talents + mastery to put it on elemental lvl. This is not a problem? And enh hiting stronger with LB is abomination?
    SL 3x proc system with stormbringer, hot hand and MSW where MSW LB hits least is unrewarding, unintuitive ans just freaking bad imo, not mentioning it would be really pro player to have etleast instant cast eating 3 charges or stack up to 8-10 which would be nice buffor for all situtaions.

    Lack of insta cc as mele, lack of good defensive capabilities, skills without any interactions just doing raw dmg, no burst acumulation capability (like SS in mop with ~8 sec hard cd to not hit like weet nodles)

    "Hope for the best and prepare for the worst"

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Primal Strike was introduced in Cata, by the time, the biggest downtimes during leveling caused by Mana were already gone.
    Primal Strike was just a 1-10 filler ability for Enhancement, so they don't have to make Stormstrike baseline.

    Calling glorified combopoints "unique" is a stretch.

    If said weapon enchant did something useful beyond that, i might consider it.
    And despite Flametongue weapon making a comeback, that passive effect doesn't.

    You are solely looking it from a gameplay perspective, but the point is that Enhancement draws a lot upon Elemental abilities without Elemental actually having useful Enhancement abilities, nor those few abilities that are unique to Elemental (Lava Burst, Earthquake) feel strong enough on their own for the spec to set itself apart.

    And quite frankly, it's extremely silly that spells from a spellcaster do less damage in a singular hit than from a Melee fighter.
    Why? Because those spells are "finisher" for the Melee fighter and filler for the caster, despite not making a lick of sense.

    You carry weapons into battle and go toe to toe with other melees, do something fancy with that.
    Enhancement has always been a melee that struggles to fight other melees, and shined against casters. The history of the spec after the buffing role was dropped was to enhance itself, which is 100% in the vein of why lightning bolt does more dmg from Enhance. You are enhancing yourself to unleash stronger abilities. Meanwhile, Elemental is a master of the Elements, hence having things like the shocks, icefury, and lava burst.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaelthon
    do i wanting my cat come the expansion due to signifying a reroll fresh scratch the night elf mage?

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by wushootaki View Post
    which is 100% in the vein of why lightning bolt does more dmg from Enhance. You are enhancing yourself to unleash stronger abilities.
    "A totemic warrior who strikes foes with weapons imbued with elemental power."

    It's primarily about Enhancing your attacks with Elemental power, the reason why Lightning bolt does more damage as Enhancement is 100% gameplay related because you're not firing off Lightning bolt off every 2 seconds, but built towards it.

    That however, doesn't give it a reason why it should deal more damage as Enhancement, your Melee attacks should obviously deal more damage, not your spells.

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