Dear Blizzard; covenant spells will ruin the game

[Rucati]

I agree completely, they should only be available in open world content like leveling and world quests and they have absolutely no place in raids, m+ and arena.

Especially given that some will certainly be overpowered in PvP, while others are overpowered in PvE, but you can't swap between them freely so you better have two of every class if you wanna take both things seriously.

The covenant spells literally killed all my hype for the game, and until they announce it either being only usable in world content or they change their mind and let you easily change covenants multiple times a week, I don't think I'll have much interest in Shadowlands. And that's pretty sad, the class change stuff seems really cool, but the covenants are just so horribly designed it ruins it anyway. Kind of crazy Blizzard can make the same mistake every expansion and not learn from it despite subs going down each expac.

[Humek]

I agree completely, they should only be available in open world content like leveling and world quests and they have absolutely no place in raids, m+ and arena.

Especially given that some will certainly be overpowered in PvP, while others are overpowered in PvE, but you can't swap between them freely so you better have two of every class if you wanna take both things seriously.

The covenant spells literally killed all my hype for the game, and until they announce it either being only usable in world content or they change their mind and let you easily change covenants multiple times a week, I don't think I'll have much interest in Shadowlands. And that's pretty sad, the class change stuff seems really cool, but the covenants are just so horribly designed it ruins it anyway. Kind of crazy Blizzard can make the same mistake every expansion and not learn from it despite subs going down each expac.

Same here buddy.

[Alaenore]

If people pick an ability based on a simulation saying it's a bit better, when :
- They don't understand the simulation ;
- The simulation probably has a lot of missing usecase ;
- Most gameplay at the beginning of the extension are not yet discovered.

Then they're a special kind of stupid and shouldn't be listened to anyway.

[Holdodlig]

Probably the dumbest thread about covenant spells.

[Rainyhealz]

Probably the dumbest thread about covenant spells.

You think covenant spells should be usable in a 3v3 arena? Have you read these? Probably the dumbest comment in this thread with no logical input and a weeb picture

[Marsc92]

Yea, just lock the main feature of the game to the outside world. Who wouldn't want to buy an expansion where the main selling point of it is... getting something new for your world quest tours.

Low IQ take, please dont feel the need to share your opinion when its this nonsensical.

make covenants a new talent row

[Egomaniac]

People have been saying that "Feature X" of "Expansion Y" will ruin the game since they announced TBC.

[dcc626]

People have been saying that "Feature X" of "Expansion Y" will ruin the game since they announced TBC.

in reality: playerbase ruins the game. film at 11.

[goldentforce]

A couple issues with the covenant system I want to put out. I do respect ions statement today that he would rather save the system then scrap it, and as long as the possibility to scrap is available at not a significant cost in time/dev work/etc. i willing to give him that.

1) Player choice is cool, but the issue is it comes at a thematic/cosmetic cost inherently. The personal most fun ability or the best damage ability in most content might come at a cost of the covenant you find the coolest. I.E demon hunter might find the venthyr the best thematic/best storyline but finds the nightfae ability to be the most fun. I get that it is a tough choice but it just Feels bad

2)If the system has many factors you have to make a decision based on, those factors have to available as soon as possible. Seeing the soulbind abilities, the conduit abilities, covenant specific legendaries, other powers has to be shown so we can truly test this decision. If we don't have the whole picture feedback on the covenant system is pretty weak outside of this ability is boring,broken,etc. It doesnt help that some of the abilities are specifically targeted at certain content like single target, pvp, utility,etc. that it makes it hard to see how a choice is balanced. Will the single target abilities covenant end up having soulbinds/conduits that also focus on single target or pvp effects,etc. or will it try to round out with aoe/pvp effects? We know conduits are supposedly things you can switch out so I assume there will be a large variety so then is the choice actually down to the covenant ability?

3)Classes are not just down to one spec, and players don't want to be limited to one spec, that was a negative of the legion artifact system. If i choose the most dps covenant and it is actually one of the worst for the other specs, it will feel bad to play other specs, which is supposed to be a fun and useful thing being able to switch specs. In this case it seems actually better to level up same class with best covenant if you actually want to be as useful as possible on every aspect of your class.

4) It is a massive shame that you will only get to experience one ability/ power system for 2 years of SL. Some of the abilities are really cool in different ways and different content, and whenever someone of the same spec gets to have the edge in a scenario because of the covenant you chose, its gonna feel bad that you are locked out of that experience. I understand that its part of your choice and the customization of your endgame experience but the scenario will occur where player 1 has the "best" build for most raid encounters but player 2 does more mythic+ and went with the best aoe encounter build and boss 6 is an aoe fight and player 1 sees player 2 have all this best and great performance on the same spec but player 1 cannot. I don't really consider swapping covenants and viable option in this scenario unless its saves progress in another covenant or is a massive process to reach that point in the covenant its just not worth the time,etc.

I personally prefer to customize my experience as a see fit because I think its the most fun in the game. If i am going to tank I want to be tanking with most of the best tools I can for the scenario. I also want to experience all 4 of the covenants on the characters i want to play while also experiencing the most fun experiences those characters would with things like new abilities. I do think being able to specialize into things is cool, but I think that is a choice you make with your starting class, that is the major choice you make. I'd rather a system like this be applied to something else, such as professions, where you could specialize into different things and unique. I think that is something that would have very little backlash if you could make a choice to specialize in crafting specific items, farming specific ingredients,etc. which would be a compliment to the game. I think its a tall order to make all 4 covenants uniquely fun and powerful to different players, as well as balancing something like spec changing and if they can that's great. I have my doubts though, its a major balance and design task so I am pessimistic.

[Stardrift]

No, that's just the part that you care most about. The vast majority of the playerbase doesn't care.

Vast majority. Lol. Like all 3 of you?

[Casperite]

Blizzard selling point isn't what vast majority of playerbase cares either. Most of the playerbase wants free shit without having to do anything for it. And they want to hit some sort of power ceiling with that free shit so they can go "yeah I'm super powerful now, just like all the good players".

Funny, cause the only players I see asking for things handed to them or game to cater to their wants are the so called "good players" on these forums. The rest of the players just olay the game how they want and enjoy themselves.

[Huggykaze]

Please please please keep the covenant spells and benefits for the outside world. Do not bring them into raids where we have to min/max and ignore the other 3. DO NOT bring them into pvp where DH can go full pepega and teleport onto of you as if you had any chance to escape before this.

Dont be stupid, make balancing easier by taking these spells out of pvp and raids and dungeons.

Ok, let me correct you in 1 reard. You DO NOT have to min/max in raids unless you are a member of like world top100-200 guild. Everything below that is just a choice and if your officers require you to go as far as changing your gameplay experience, they are insane/delusional and need professional help.

This being said, a big part of WoW's community is insane/delusional, so you are right in your thinking - these abilities can destroy the game. Or, depending on the reaction of the sane part of the community, actually save it from idiotic over the top minmaxing.

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Funny, cause the only players I see asking for things handed to them or game to cater to their wants are the so called "good players" on these forums. The rest of the players just olay the game how they want and enjoy themselves.

Actually a vast majority of, if not all players want that. Blizz has us gotten used to this system of easy and quick rewards, like we're some kinda junkies.

[Holdodlig]

You think covenant spells should be usable in a 3v3 arena? Have you read these? Probably the dumbest comment in this thread with no logical input and a weeb picture

You absolutely have no clues about what you're talking about obviously. Take Legion which is one of the most restrictive expansion in term of content you could bring into an arena since you had specific stats, you couldn't use trinkets, legendaries and any other item with effect. You could use your artifact ability, and you had access to your artifact traits.

Why ? Because the endgame was designed around this. Did it absolutely ruin the game ? Not at all. As always, poor balance did, and you didn't find it in artifact abilities.

This is a core feature - and the only feature shown in the trailer. You will have covenant ability too. You'll just have to learn to play with them and against them. And this is still the dumbest thread about covenant spells.

[huth]

Vast majority. Lol. Like all 3 of you?

The group that never does anything more organised than LFR. Which is >50% of the playerbase.

You're in a minority group simply by being here.

[Venziir]

"Blood Elves will ruin the game, flying will ruin the game, death knights will ruin the game, Cataclysm will ruin the game, pandas will ruin the game, garrisons will ruin the game, artifacts will ruin the game, azerite will ruin the game"... Did I forget something?

[Rainyhealz]

You absolutely have no clues about what you're talking about obviously. Take Legion which is one of the most restrictive expansion in term of content you could bring into an arena since you had specific stats, you couldn't use trinkets, legendaries and any other item with effect. You could use your artifact ability, and you had access to your artifact traits.

Why ? Because the endgame was designed around this. Did it absolutely ruin the game ? Not at all. As always, poor balance did, and you didn't find it in artifact abilities.

This is a core feature - and the only feature shown in the trailer. You will have covenant ability too. You'll just have to learn to play with them and against them. And this is still the dumbest thread about covenant spells.

Lol to use legion pvp as a good argument.... you could have picked any other expac but nope, you picked the worst pvp expac where they slowed down combat to the point of waiting for 80% dampening to win a match.

[Synical123]

Yea, just lock the main feature of the game to the outside world. Who wouldn't want to buy an expansion where the main selling point of it is... getting something new for your world quest tours.

Remember when the ‘main feature’ of the game was just the actual game? Because I do

[Stacie]

If they are able to be used in m+ or raiding i will just pick the best all one for the majority of stuff i do. This is going to feel super bad as prefer to min/max bring everything so i can and perform to the best of my ability. Its going to make swapping specs feel so bad. (might just drop playing tank/heal offspec and play the game a whole lot less, or maybe i will just make 4 of the same class if they remove the limit per realm thing.)

Heck if they nerf/buff this stuff after you have made a choice already.. god damn even the casual players will likely be mad.

I can see situations where although you are only loosing a few % DPS/healing/survivability or some utility that few % or utility means someone else is picked over you for whatever content. This is also going to feel so bad and everyone knows it will happen! Look at the past and now.. Gearscore, Raider.io, need a rogue for invis etc etc. The difference may be small, yes you can still do the content without needing to pick players like this... But those picking have limited stuff to go off. You pick what looks the best on the information you have. If someone on paper looks slightly better you pick them its that simple! The only real exception is if you know the players.

This system is in no way going to make me want to pick the most appealing one to me fantasy wise, i'm always going to go for the best ish one for what i do most even if i hate the visual look and content that comes from it. I spend most my time doing the stuff i enjoy, not questing/collecting in the open world. My choice is going to feel bad in almost every situation and only really good in the specific scenario i picked everything for! (unless they buff/nerf, then even that will be enraging)

Just keep this stuff locked to more casual content outside of an instance. Those who do that stuff can still use these buttons/effects and have it feel like a choice then. This allows everyone to pick what appeals to them the most without feeling punished. This really is the lesser of evils and the only way i feel to compromise here.

[Araxie]

Why not just limit everything then?

Everyone only play the best preforming DPS class, the best tank and the best healer?

Limiting choice is boring, and their system of all these different choices sounds absolutely fun. If people want to min-max their character, then let them, I suppose? But at least give people the choice to play how they want and make meaningful choices for their characters. If you really think having a blink vs. a dash is really going to be that large of a difference in raiding, I really don't know what to tell you.

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"Blood Elves will ruin the game, flying will ruin the game, death knights will ruin the game, Cataclysm will ruin the game, pandas will ruin the game, garrisons will ruin the game, artifacts will ruin the game, azerite will ruin the game"... Did I forget something?

You sir or ma'am, I like.

[Tomana]

As far as I am concerned, there are 2 problems with covenants atm:
1) Blizzards inability to balance them from the start. We'll pick one covenant, then it'll get nerfed to oblivion because devs have no clue and then what?
2) Some covenant abilities are clearly aimed towards tanks, some DPS, etc. Which means multi-role classes get the shaft again.