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  1. #81
    My friend played wow, and I saw a fel guard in Stormwind, I asked him... what class was that ?

    He said, that's not a player, that's a warlock's minion. That was at the end of WoTLK, I played Demo for the next few of years.

    Playing Demo in Firelands and Dragon Soul was some of the most fun I've ever had in wow...and I didn't always top the meters, and didn't care... it was freaking just fun to play.

    I wasn't a huge fan of demonic fury and the resources tied to Meta added in MoP… and it seemed in WoD they just couldn't balance the fun stuff... I think I changed specs every other week in WoD

    But still, Demonic fury, although I didn't too much care for it, was a thousand times better than the garbage spec Demonology has become today

  2. #82
    What some are missing is what most enjoyed about MOP demo wasn't necessarily turning into a winged demon (though it was cool, and could have been easily kept and renamed for the sake of DH's), but the playstyle. The current demo, while cool with the demons and such, is an objectively clunky spec by any MMO's standard. It feels unpolished, almost beta build-esque. They don't necessarily need to completely overhaul it, but they need to adjust the way it plays.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Everything you said is (I suspect knowingly) false, Ebonlock was the first warlock to learned how to metamorphize and he did so from studying Illidan and outland long after Illidan did so during the reign of chaos.
    Further, there is no need to show Illidan knew about meta before consuming the skull's power, we've seen DH's using meta 5-6 years (in-universe) before any warlock even tried to use the spell that's canon. All you have is fanfiction that MU Gul'dan somehow learned about meta offscreen and never used it or told anything about it until illidan consumed the skull 20 years later despite numerous other people (including warlocks) possessing the skull during that period.


    There is not a shred of evidence stated or even implied anywhere that the skull contained knowledge of any kind. It has however been showing multiple times (going back to WCII) to be a powerful totem for channelling and absorbing fel energies, illidan used it as a battery not an encyclopedia.
    I suspect that is flimsy justification at best. Illidan NEVER used metamorphosis prior to using the Skull of Gul'dan. That's a fact. Don't like it? Too fucking bad. You act as if it is too big of a stretch that a class of characters that specialize in demonology, having learned those abilities directly from Kil'Jaeden himself, have no possible ability to learn to infuse deeply, but a bunch of night elves that learn how to see and kill demons somehow do??? That's just bad comedy.
    "The fatal flaw of every plan, no matter how well planned, is the assumption that you know more than your enemy."

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Melusine View Post
    I suspect that is flimsy justification at best. Illidan NEVER used metamorphosis prior to using the Skull of Gul'dan. That's a fact. Don't like it? Too fucking bad. You act as if it is too big of a stretch that a class of characters that specialize in demonology, having learned those abilities directly from Kil'Jaeden himself, have no possible ability to learn to infuse deeply, but a bunch of night elves that learn how to see and kill demons somehow do??? That's just bad comedy.
    Yes, we call it canon. Welcome to blizzard's writing, suffer well.
    Last edited by Saltysquidoon; 2020-05-17 at 11:39 PM.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Yes, we call it canon. Welcome to blizzard's writing, suffer well.
    The rest of us call that "ret-con"ing. And like it or not, Ret-conning is a tacit admission that they don't know how to write a story for shit. But I say again, who would be more likely to be able to, or more than that, would be willing to use a power that would convert their bodies into a demon, eh? A type of person who regularly makes pacts with demons, can summon small armies of demons of virtually all types, up to and including pit lords and even Archimonde, as the AU Gul'dan did, or a bunch of people who hunt them, and are the antithesis of everything they believe in? THAT is why, like Sylvanas, Illidan should have been a unique form of whatever he is, and we should never have seen a class that is modeled after such a person. Illidan's demon hunters should have remained like Feronas Sindweller or Altruis (the one in Outland Nagrand, not the one opposite to Kayn in Legion).

    And of course, the fact also remains. Warlocks were able to use metamorphosis. It honestly doesn't matter who you think was the originator of metamorphosis. The forms are different. The one that is Illidari is not at all like the Nathrezir one warlocks had access to. But it's still like bitching that holy priests and holy paladins are not necessary, because one is more holy than the other one is. Hell, they could have changed into the exact same god damned one, and it doesn't change the fact that they could both use it. Admittedly, I wouldn't have made DH's like they are, but they were made, and because of that, pandora's box was opened, and there is no eliminating all the Demon hunters that were rolled out of existence, even if I had the power to do so, I wouldn't. And as long as Kanrethad Ebonlocke and Aeda Brightdawn exist, the lore doesn't conveniently unwrite itself because the writers at blizzard caved to the people who were desperate to play as Illidan Stormrages, but only thought one of them should have the ability, and they chose the one that should have recoilled from it just out of sheer contempt. Demon hunters were so poorly crafted, the idiots at blizzard weren't even able to come up with a 3rd spec for them, ffs. They didn't have that problem with rogues, mages, warlocks or hunters... classes that were all of them dps, with rogues having 3 melee specs, and mages and warlocks having 3 ranged specs (and once upon a time, hunters were entirely ranged), yet they have a seizure trying to extrude the DH into something playable, when you know as well as I do, they should have been just like the Tuskarr, or the Taunka, the Ethereals, the Krokul.... allies, but not playable characters, that way, once we defeated the Legion, they could have hopped their ass onto the Fel Hammer and went to the other demon worlds to scour the remnants of the Legion, that would have made more sense.
    "The fatal flaw of every plan, no matter how well planned, is the assumption that you know more than your enemy."

  6. #86
    The whole lore/canon issue seems like fake news to me

    That was just a curveball thrown out there to justify taking meta away

    The real issue is... it’s just not fun anymore, especially for people who played with Meta for years

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    No MoP style metamorphosis no sub from me
    warlock will never get meta back. not as long as DH exists.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    We need MoP demonology back as a choice.
    if there is one thing that blizzard will never listen to, its "bring back MoP (insert spec here)". they will never just revert a spec to an older version entirely.

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    if there is one thing that blizzard will never listen to, its "bring back MoP (insert spec here)". they will never just revert a spec to an older version entirely.
    Unfortunately true, but they can definitely look back and see what was good about it and how to bring those aspects into the current form.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    warlock will never get meta back. not as long as DH exists.

    - - - Updated - - -



    if there is one thing that blizzard will never listen to, its "bring back MoP (insert spec here)". they will never just revert a spec to an older version entirely.
    Not a spec but Blizz will bring back spells that don't work any of the specs mechanics.

  10. #90
    What is the point of 3 dps only spec? Blizzard has proven for a good ten years, they can't balance Classes like warlocks with 3 pure dps specs. Demo doesn't still have an interrupt. Time to stop wasting warlocks players times. Break the class in 2. Have affliction and Destro. You want to excel at cleave fights, go destro. Wanna, multi dot or pure single target, go afflction. Don't even talk to me about no updates to the demons. They took the update looks away and made us have to rebuy them off ah. Legion expansion gave us alot of updated demons skins. Give us new shiney demons / mobs to control.

    - - - Updated - - -

    As I mention above, break the class in 2? Yeah, time to make demo the spec its meant to be. New class, Necromancer / Demologist. Master of summoning / control. One is undead. The other is demons. New armour, which u make / forge Demon skin based armour / bone armour. Druids have leather. (no idea why, being from nature, wearing animal skins) its armour rating in between cloth / leather. so then this gives blizzard the easier task to focus on warlocks as the Dots or cleave spec. and the new Necro/demo spec as the master of summons & control. and so much more you can do.

  11. #91
    not playing Demo again until Metamorphosis comes back. Loved playing Demo in Wrath.

  12. #92
    I'm sure Demo will continue to be a terrible, dead spec played by almost no one in Shadowlands.

    And it will remain so until they delete the Legion rework/abomination and restore the spec to what it was.

  13. #93
    So Demo has been revamped in both Legion and BfA... so they won't be changed outside of class changes I don't think.

    Meta should arguably never been a warlock ability. It's a demon hunter hero ultimate ability, ever since WC3. Furthermore, demo used to actually be about managing and empowering your demon - both Legion and BfA variants are the first to truly offer that an experience of calling many demons. Honestly, for how clunky the spec plays, its still amazing having your own demon army.

    Warlock overall as a class has the problem of significant ramp with Demo and Affli, and single target ramp at that. Yet Destro has huge burst potential for single target, cleave and aoe. For how the game gets played at present with M+ and cleave boss fights, why play Demo or Affli which struggle to ramp / have no burst. I feel bad for the dot specs regardless, but especially affliction...

  14. #94
    It speaks volumes on the dev's incompetence to not deliver a universally loved Demo spec that doesn't have to be revamped every expansion. How pitiful some vapid nerds think summoning 18 imps is the epitome of Demo spec identity. You could really kek every time m8.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Elestia View Post
    So Demo has been revamped in both Legion and BfA... so they won't be changed outside of class changes I don't think.

    Meta should arguably never been a warlock ability. It's a demon hunter hero ultimate ability, ever since WC3. Furthermore, demo used to actually be about managing and empowering your demon - both Legion and BfA variants are the first to truly offer that an experience of calling many demons. Honestly, for how clunky the spec plays, its still amazing having your own demon army.

    Warlock overall as a class has the problem of significant ramp with Demo and Affli, and single target ramp at that. Yet Destro has huge burst potential for single target, cleave and aoe. For how the game gets played at present with M+ and cleave boss fights, why play Demo or Affli which struggle to ramp / have no burst. I feel bad for the dot specs regardless, but especially affliction...
    I find it hilarious how everyone and their dog was pushing this BS here for years about how Destruction is shit and needs to be reworked, yet here comes that one patch where it finally managed to trump Affliction and suddenly it's an oh so perfect spec and Affliction is suddenly a potato spec.

    And what's even more hilarious is how suddenly there are all these tears about "why play affliction" as if it was not OPAF for years now in just about everything but M+ (in BFA only at that).

    Don't worry Affliction got some good love in that department in Alpha. Demo might need some love, but Aff after all the stuff it got in Alpha? haHaA.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    No MoP style metamorphosis no sub from me
    dh existing means warlock isnt getting demon form back.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Narwhalosh Whalescream View Post
    We need MoP demonology back as a choice.
    anytime someone wants a version of a spec from a past xpac, they are going to be dissapointed. at no point does "just go back to MoP <fill in the spec>" ever happen.

  17. #97
    Shadowlands is poised to be BFA 2.0 with cuter graphics and storyline. The classes are still the same castrated Legion specs designed with Legion artifact as scaffolding but the artifact is ripped out and covenant "choose one of four colors at different blob angles per class" and soulbinds won't fill that hole because the fact is the artifact system took them too much work alongside class order halls and mounts and spec legendaries for them, and BFA was basically their excuse to downgrade.

    We will never have the kind of extensive spec and class features Legion offered for a good while because Blizzard doesn't want that kind of workload again.

    Why work like that when you can shit out BfA and still have record subscription counts. The fanbase are a bunch of lemmings willing to settle for whatever vomit Blizzard pours into their mouths.
    Last edited by Lucrece; 2020-06-08 at 06:00 AM.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaidax View Post
    I find it hilarious how everyone and their dog was pushing this BS here for years about how Destruction is shit and needs to be reworked, yet here comes that one patch where it finally managed to trump Affliction and suddenly it's an oh so perfect spec and Affliction is suddenly a potato spec.

    And what's even more hilarious is how suddenly there are all these tears about "why play affliction" as if it was not OPAF for years now in just about everything but M+ (in BFA only at that).

    Don't worry Affliction got some good love in that department in Alpha. Demo might need some love, but Aff after all the stuff it got in Alpha? haHaA.

    I'm pretty biased to playing Destro b/c I can't stand soft ramp wet noodle specs. Imo destro has always been the best option, even when affli was overtuned.

    The problem slow ramp saw in BfA was the GCD change, where now everything must spin the global. Affli has to dot, hard cast to spend and cast out big CDs / can't precast anything pre-pull. Ele shaman would have been punished the same way had elementals been programmed to aggro on cast. Tbh GCD change is gonna be a lingering problem impacting specs until damage gets rebalanced / repackaged to where there's actual parity in how specs ramp / acquire resources in ramping. This would start with some equity in GCD spending.
    Last edited by Elestia; 2020-06-12 at 04:15 AM.

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by dcc626 View Post
    dh existing means warlock isnt getting demon form back.

    - - - Updated - - -



    anytime someone wants a version of a spec from a past xpac, they are going to be dissapointed. at no point does "just go back to MoP <fill in the spec>" ever happen.
    come on how hard is it to make a demon form that doesn't scream I'M ILLIDAN and give it back to Demo?

    Just call it Fel Ascension, make your character sprout wings and horns, add some green fire and give us back Demo the way it was meant to be played.

    Current Demo will never be a good or fun spec. It is fundamentally dogshit and will always remain so.
    Last edited by enigma77; 2020-06-12 at 04:26 AM.

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